anon said:

oh my goodness after seeing that what is the big deal...there were a couple of snickers but nothing majorly rude...sometimes you guys act like P is a china doll

OperatingThetan said:

I'm not having a go at you or anything, but that's a pretty fanciful notion in my opinion. Inescapably, whatever views one holds on any topic will be totally contrary to someone else's views. So how can you respect a view that you believe fundamentally to be misguided and incorrect? With that in mind, I'd say instead that every religious belief should be fair game for criticism and rational discourse. No idea should be so sacred as to be safe from the application of human intellect.

I acknowledge that in the privacy of one's mind, anyone can believe any old nonsense they find comforting. That said, just because someone holds a particular belief (no matter how fervently) should not entitle them or their beliefs to any special "respect". Give respect where respect is merited. Some ideas are just so idiotic that they do not deserve respect. Adolf Hitler had some pretty odd notions on a whole host of subjects, and I'm sure most of us here can agree that we don't lend much respect to those views.

Prince is a grown man and will do, think and say whatever he wishes, but I personally have no respect or time for his pious religious views. He's on his journey, we're all on ours, and I don't care one jot for whatever misguided rubbish he subscribes to on any given week. If Prince was half the religious scholar he has professed to be over the years, he'd be the fucking Pope by now. He wears his dogma like a scarf, to be cast aside when his attention wanders or pulled out of the closet again when it suits. He played at being a vegan for a bit, yet he currently advertises an above-deck pre concert barbeque on his website

I agreed with your other points. I just think people are too willing to suspend their intellectual and critical faculties for fear of offending some idiot and their silly unfounded beliefs. Blind faith in man-made fairy tales is not a thing deserving of respect or advocacy. Anything that requires people to disengage their (God-given?) ability to question things and think about them is surely not something any reasonable person would respect. If someone gets comfort from their religion that's fine and wonderful, but I don't consider blind faith as any kind of a virtue to be extolled or to be proud of. As for Prince, he would be better off keeping his faith to himself,especially at press conferences promoting concerts. If he wants to preach, let him go do some missionary work somewhere.

ian said:

Cloudbuster said:

Totally agree with you.

I think rather than 'respect' I should have written 'tolerate'. And I don't think press conferences for concerts are the best places to preach either. As I mentioned in my previous posts I think it could potentially deter the audience rather than encourage them.

Yeah, I think this discussion has moved beyond the press conference, though.

An unreleased religious song is not indicative of his actions from that period, however. Now his actions are actually louder than the message he's singing.

That doesn't negate the fact his behavior in regards to religion and acceptance has changed.

Wendy spoke about it in interviews. She remarked on the change herself. There can be little debate on that and the fact is she was quite close to him in the mid-80's so she has a perfect vantage point from which to comment, imo.

Well, I obviously don't agree.... If I'm a vegetarian and happen to go to a picnic where they host is serving meat I'm not going to get offended because there's quite a lot of other offerings that I will be happy to put on my plate. If the guy behind the banquet table stops me and say "Hold up, you have to eat the meat or leave" then it's entirely different.

Right. But the point I was making is that Prince of 1988 could have easily made that "study the Bible" comment. That comment was no more religiously divisive than what Prince did onstage in 1987/1988--in fact it was probably less.

True, but a lot of the ammo people have been using for this type or discussion are the lyrics from The Rainbow Children. If we are going to neglect to consider the confrontational tone of the lyrics from "God is Alive" then it is hardly fair to use The Rainbow Children lyrics as evidence.

The problem is that we have no concrete proof that Prince was EVER really accepting to other points of view and or religions beliefs. You yourself said that actions speak louder than words. What actions did Prince display previous to 1998 to show that he was all inclusive of all religions?

We also have interviews with Morris Day, Jerome, Alan Leeds, and Jimmy jam stating that Prince is the same as he ever was. What does that prove?

I hear what you are saying. I don't think that an atheist at a Prince show would feel very included when asked to chant "God is love". Nor do I think a Muslim, nor a Jewish person would feel very included in a sing along anthem about Jesus. Can you not see my point at all? Food preferences and religious beliefs are on separate levels of importance for many people...

Well he did the right thing by ending it right when they laughed. They don't understand how fortunate they are that he talked to them at all!

Way to piss orgers off JT. You seem to be good at it.

I actually agree with you

I don't see your point in relation to this specific topic because it doesn't apply. We're not talking about simple words, we're talking about Prince's behavior and attitude in relation to religion. ...and my picnic story obviously wasn't meant to be a literal example, but I really think you know that.

Rev said:

I just don't care anymore... in all the years I've been here, I've seen too many people equating Prince with some royal, holy figure like people should throw rose petals at him and kiss the ground he just walked on...

People should understand how fortunate Prince is that the media even gives a damn at this stage... That was a media event so Prince could sell more tickets, not a religious visitation for the peasants.

Rev said:

I just don't care anymore... in all the years I've been here, I've seen too many people equating Prince with some royal, holy figure like people should throw rose petals at him and kiss the ground he just walked on...

People should understand how fortunate Prince is that the media even gives a damn at this stage... That was a media event so Prince could sell more tickets, not a religious visitation for the peasants.

i hate to pull out this old chestnut, but if prince were spouting off about the dalai lama and his buddhist studies, this thread would have been about three posts long. i don't know what that says about the price of peanuts in schultzville, but it's true.

Anx said:

You're so wise, Anx.

Bottom line for me: Any examples of Prince's behavior that we have not witnessed from a public and or onstage performance is highly speculative at best. Point being--we don't have hard evidence towards Prince's actual behavior towards his closest bandmates--just their word--again it amounts to rumors and conjecture.

All I have to judge Prince's behavior and attitude towards religion is his public stance. Publicly, Prince has done nothing that was actually THAT far removed from his late 80's/early 90's love God dogma except for become more vocal.

Believe me, I understand that Prince isn't Prince of 1988 etc. However, I think that he is much more similar than he is different. I just don't see a HUGE change in his attitude/behavior over the years.

This article sums it up for me... I'd be interested to see your thoughts on it.

http://www.princelyrics.c...article=37

From your profile seems like you dig his music, just not the religious part???

A Christian (or any other devoted believer of any faith tradition for that matter), feels the responsibilty to share their faith. There is no "inappopriate time", as the idea is to spread the message to as many people as possible.

jpav said:

Proselytizing is NOT a fundamental aspect of all religions or all people within a religion. I know some Christians who rarely speak of it unless it comes up in an appropriate discussion and others that can't shut up about it...

...and yes, there ARE inappropriate times to proselytize.

They asked the question, he answered the question.

Funny, back in the day we used to celebrate that kind of honesty about a plethora of other "cooler" subjects.

But now, he's honest about his beliefs! How dare he! Go back to being honest about something more appropriate like fucking!

Excuse me but if you'd been paying attention you'd comprehend the fact that this thread has evolved into more than just Prince's specific words at the press conference.

And I responded to your post. IMHO, Prince's words in this case at the press conference were not at an "inappropriate time". Now, you seem to think otherwise, as some of this conversation has evolved into that general point of yours. If you do think that this instance was "an inappropriate time" I'd be interested to hear why.

jpav said:

Proselytizing is NOT a fundamental aspect of all religions or all people within a religion. I know some Christians who rarely speak of it unless it comes up in an appropriate discussion and others that can't shut up about it...

...and yes, there ARE inappropriate times to proselytize.

ElCapitan said:

No, I never stated this particular comment was inappropriate, as I mentioned previously. The OP painted the situation into something entirely different than what actually went on... after that came to light a lot of the discussion has been more general. jpav's post was not specifically about this event so I'm not sure where the logic comes from that my reply to theirs was to be read only as such.

It is very much a fundamental aspect-- who you know, personal experience means nothing in the face of thousands of years of religious texts/doctrine/studies.

Likewise the enlightened worldview held by some of being "nonjudgemental and open to all, saying nothing's better than the other" because it may hurt another's feelings, is hypersensitive and not real. It's not honest. People make judgements/discriminations EVERYDAY to a greater or lesser extent from the stores one chooses to shop, channels they watch, etc. Understand, telling one "you're gonna burn in Hell" or chewing on burgers in Hindu house isn't going to effectively build bridges. But for billions of people the world over, they are not going to compromise their belief systems and accept another's because it may make them feel bad. It's called a celebration of diversity.

At one point you distanced from "the statement" while at another point you talk about this particular media event not being a religious visitation. Either way, it's not that serious.

It is (generally) interesting to me how prince can say the word bible in an appropriate setting and it results in a examination of depth and breadth of his religious proselytizing over the course of his career.