XxAxX said:

Most people do change a lot over 20 years. . .

Anxiety said:

nope I understood what you were saying...and I know you stated that it was not your intention to spread any negative light on the issue....I was just responding to the breadth of threads. No worries

skywalker said:

amen

Giovanni777 said:

i agree with U except didn't he say Musicology Tour was the last time for the hits?

SCNDLS said:

i know they do. i have myself. and, re-reading what i posted i see i come off as condemning prince's religious direction. that's not what i mean, though.

personally i strongly disagree with most tenets of the JW doctrine. in my opinion, a lot of those tenets are disturbing and against what i persoanlly consider to be true spirituality.

but i would still defend prince's right to do dedicate his life to that doctrine if he chooses. in fact, he can do a total cat stevens if he so desires. i'd miss him but it's his right.

the only reason i am posting at all is to point out that prince's religious beliefs, as reflected by his music and behavior, seem to have changed a lot. to say that his message is the same as it was back in 1982 is not accurate, imo.

So what about the lyrics for "God is Alive"?

Lyrics like "Heaven is keeping score.." and "..dance on those who can't say his name..." don't exactly drum up good will if you aren't down with Jesus.

Y'know...I've thought about this a bit since yesterday...and I'm not sure those reporters actually took Prince's statement as serious.

Those of us who have followed his career closely know about the spiritual journey Prince has been on. The average person doesn't. (Hell...half of them still think he goes by "The Artist!" ) They remember only the more notorious aspects of his career -- the half-naked guy singing about incest or making it with a hooker named Nikki, the aforementioned name change, etc. He's all dirty lyrics and assless pants to them.

So when he says he's going to study the Bible -- and does it with an implied "duh!" in his face and voice -- I think it's understandable that they might not take the statement at face value. They take it in the context of what has gone before -- or, more to the point, in the context of what they know as having gone before.

Just a thought.

Again, the unity that was suggested with Lovesexy was all under a Christian banner. I mean, Prince was onstage preaching to people about God and love, but it was definitely a Christian message. It wasn't all about Allah or whatever you felt, it was exclusionary because it was onesidedly Christian. You are right that Prince didn't sit the lovesexy or sott audience down and lay out his rules and dogma--but I think that having a giant cross and preaching about Jesus was enough to drive home the point. You didn't see the Star of David anywhere onstage did you???





I hear you--the point I am making is that Prince has historically been known as a controlling prick. Sure, we didn't specifically hear any stories about him pushing his religious beliefs on anyone in the 80's, but the mind games and the strict rules all line up with the stories of Prince's controlling ways. All I am saying is this: Prince is pushing his views on others--what's new??




Agreed. However, I believe that it didn't alter him as much many would claim. Again, read the Alan Leeds interview--he comments on that Prince is the same person as always.





If I told you to trust in Allah and that his love will save you would you feel included? If I told you that Allah is "keeping score" would you feel included? How would the audience feel?





Prince is just more outspoken than he was in the 80's. There are NUMEROUS stories from that era to suggest that he was, as I said, the same controlling guy then, as he is now. He was just less vocal about it. It has always been Prince's way or the door and it has always been about sex and Jesus. Whoopity doo...
[Edited 5/9/07 8:05am]
[Edited 5/9/07 8:06am]

NewFunk said:

Nooooo!!! This news makes me very sad. So how long is this "time off" going to last? I'm getting withdrawal symptoms already. I hope it doesn't last too long, we need an album or a US Tour or something.

But I do agree that Prince needs to do his thing. It was rude of the journalists to snicker at him like that for wanting him to study the bible more. Bastards.

Prince just needs to understand that Europe is more secular than the USA and that the media and public in general, are not as receptive to religious comments or references to the Bible.

I believe every religious belief should be respected. Studying the Bible may not be my idea of fun, but if Prince enjoys it so be it. I think that if Prince had said he was studying for a university degree or even another Holy Scripture such as the Koran or Buddhist texts there would have been no laughter at all.

In the UK Christianity is seen as an 'easy target' which you can ridicule with no repercussions (protests, death-threats etc). Jehovah's Witnesses are ridiculed even more. The Bible is seen as an irrelevant, out-dated, unfashionable book by the media and public in general.

If Prince had said he was studying 'The Secret' DVD they wouldn't have batted an eyelid and we would have had the pleasure of tons of corny headlines like 'Prince has the Secret' etc, etc.

Whatever, Prince will not find the audience, public or media to be very Bible receptive in general in the UK and would be better off avoiding the subject if he can or at least alluding to it in a more 'mysterious' way. Otherwise, he could talk about Bible principles but mentioning the Bible directly will not only be a conversation-killer it will actually worry a potential audience who does NOT want to be preached at during a concert.

skywalker said:

AGAIN - simply expressing your own beliefs is not the same as telling everyone else they have to believe the same thing, as well. Big difference.



What's new? Very specifically what you point out - in the 80's he wasn't applying his control freak sensibilities to religion. I've heard lots of stories about his behavior back in the 'old days' so it really says something to me that religion wasn't part of that - then.



I don't mind if someone wants to express their beliefs or include me in their prayers, etc... There's a big difference between saying "Love God" and "Love God or you're a pagan banished one".



You seem to be trying to make this about his controlling nature and that's not the issue - but the fact that he NOW chooses to apply that to religion is certainly anything but an improvement in spirituality.

XxAxX has it right:

True. However, in this context it was a press conference in which Prince simply stated that he was going to study The Bible. He simply expressed his belief just the same as drawing a cross on his cheek.

Also, I still maintain that if you sing a Christian message it IS exclusionary to all those in the audience who are not down with Jesus. Asking people to come together in the name of love is one thing, since at least the mid 80's Prince has ALWAYS asked us to do it under Jesus and God. It's not forcing your views on everyone else, but it sure ain't saying that everyone is invited.




Well, the George Clinton story and the Wendy and Lisa thing are stories that allegedly came from Prince's camp. It's very speculative and I suspect that their could be other religion related "control issues" like this from before 1998. Publicly, I don't see much of a change in Prince--he just seems to speak his mind more. Maybe he shouldn't and just let his music do the talking. Again, Alan Leeds seems to suggest that Prince is the same person at the core...



Sure, he did. He took shots at anyone who was part of the establishment. Just because we think that is cool and rebellious doesn't mean that he wasn't condemning people with a different life style.

Again, listen to the lyrics of "God is Alive" and talk of "..needing soldiers with strong feet (to) dance on those who can't say his name.."



Again, he was offensive to many in the good old days. You probably didn't mind it if it wasn't directed at you...
[Edited 5/9/07 12:14pm]

prolly already posted, but:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=t2wNXo-ksLk
http://www.youtube.com/wa...JV7LE&NR=1

skywalker said:

Yeah, I think this discussion has moved beyond the press conference, though.



Well, I obviously don't agree.... If I'm a vegetarian and happen to go to a picnic where they host is serving meat I'm not going to get offended because there's quite a lot of other offerings that I will be happy to put on my plate. If the guy behind the banquet table stops me and say "Hold up, you have to eat the meat or leave" then it's entirely different.



Wendy spoke about it in interviews. She remarked on the change herself. There can be little debate on that and the fact is she was quite close to him in the mid-80's so she has a perfect vantage point from which to comment, imo.




An unreleased religious song is not indicative of his actions from that period, however. Now his actions are actually louder than the message he's singing.



That doesn't negate the fact his behavior in regards to religion and acceptance has changed.

FunkiestOne said:

Yep. Now that I've seen both clips, it's pretty clear that it was Very Very rude and offensive. A disgrace, even!

Dear Prince,

Don't hide this clip from your inner brat...you can't shield him from everything. If he wants to cancel this whole London thing, because of it, let him.

Then tell him that the critics in NYC don't laugh at such things.

You can seperate the yolk from the white of an egg,yet it is still ONE.

The more Prince goes on about religion, the more he seems like a one dimensional wacko.

that was one painful press conference i watched ....

all i think about .. is that story of Prince and a journalist in a car driving around Minneapolis and Prince just muttering at the beginning "i wasnt goin to do this again " with his head on the dashboard ...

SCNDLS said:

SnidelyWhiplash said:

Painful?

Is Prince made of corn syrup?

SnidelyWhiplash said:

Funny how we all have different perceptions.

I thought that was one of the best he's ever done.

He seemed very down 2 Earth 2 me... honest, direct, forthright.

OperatingThetan said:

I'm not having a go at you or anything, but that's a pretty fanciful notion in my opinion. Inescapably, whatever views one holds on any topic will be totally contrary to someone else's views. So how can you respect a view that you believe fundamentally to be misguided and incorrect? With that in mind, I'd say instead that every religious belief should be fair game for criticism and rational discourse. No idea should be so sacred as to be safe from the application of human intellect.

I acknowledge that in the privacy of one's mind, anyone can believe any old nonsense they find comforting. That said, just because someone holds a particular belief (no matter how fervently) should not entitle them or their beliefs to any special "respect". Give respect where respect is merited. Some ideas are just so idiotic that they do not deserve respect. Adolf Hitler had some pretty odd notions on a whole host of subjects, and I'm sure most of us here can agree that we don't lend much respect to those views.

Prince is a grown man and will do, think and say whatever he wishes, but I personally have no respect or time for his pious religious views. He's on his journey, we're all on ours, and I don't care one jot for whatever misguided rubbish he subscribes to on any given week. If Prince was half the religious scholar he has professed to be over the years, he'd be the fucking Pope by now. He wears his dogma like a scarf, to be cast aside when his attention wanders or pulled out of the closet again when it suits. He played at being a vegan for a bit, yet he currently advertises an above-deck pre concert barbeque on his website

I agreed with your other points. I just think people are too willing to suspend their intellectual and critical faculties for fear of offending some idiot and their silly unfounded beliefs. Blind faith in man-made fairy tales is not a thing deserving of respect or advocacy. Anything that requires people to disengage their (God-given?) ability to question things and think about them is surely not something any reasonable person would respect. If someone gets comfort from their religion that's fine and wonderful, but I don't consider blind faith as any kind of a virtue to be extolled or to be proud of. As for Prince, he would be better off keeping his faith to himself,especially at press conferences promoting concerts. If he wants to preach, let him go do some missionary work somewhere.
[Edited 5/9/07 14:41pm]

ian said:

Amen! You're talking about the Pope, right?

Alexandernvrmind said:

well crap, i wanted to argue. it's no fun when you understand me!

Astasheiks said:

anon said:

oh my goodness after seeing that what is the big deal...there were a couple of snickers but nothing majorly rude...sometimes you guys act like P is a china doll

I just caught the press conference... man, it's been such a long time since I've seen him in an interview, I miss hearing him speak...

anyway...

I fully respect his decision to take some time off and study The Bible. It seems to make him happy considering how spiritual he is. And he's been pretty busy lately, so I think he deserves a break if he really feels like he needs one.
The man's gotta be exhausted, though. He's spent all that time in Vegas and then there's his extended stay coming up in London... I guess that kinda makes up for him having stayed away for so long (hence Musicology being dubbed his "comeback")...

I'm not really as concerned with his future releases and such as a lot of people here are cuz I'm still new. But above all else, I respect his choices and his happiness comes first. So good luck to you, Prince.


I prayed to do well in my classes the last fall semester... I was afraid that I'd fail organic chem. lab. I had a lot of pressure on me to do well. I said that I would check out a few books of the Bible over Christmas break if given the chance to have a report card of A's and B's. I ended up with straight A's. I really felt like there was a little divine intervention there. Cuz my labs weren't even close to A's... and I ended up acing the course.
So I read Matthew, Mark, Luke & John... and found it an interesting experience. It might prove useful to me to check out a few more books over the summer, clear my head a little bit.
[Edited 5/9/07 20:12pm]