xplnyrslf said:

Cool, check out both exhibits (the one from October)that I listed in my previous post as well. Thanks for that information you gave, I will check it out as well.

Exaclty where is it at if at all??? Is it during the Darth Vader part???? if so then I miss it since I fast forward that part.

"You're thousand years are up, now you gotta SHARE the land" Prince is talking about the White man. Devil ,Devil what you know, you've been here since 1914, now you've got to go. Come on, anybody knows who he means!!

2elijah said:

Here's the data according to "The Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade Database":
11.4 million departures from Africa and 10 million arrivals which leaves 1.4 million who perished. This is based on records from 27,233 ships.(I would assume the deceased were thrown over board in the process)
Here's the link.
http://www.iisg.nl/~ialhi...0010_5.php

Again, this is an estimate and the # is higher, but due to the illegal slave trade where records weren't kept, impossible to calculate.
[Edited 5/1/07 7:11am]

xplnyrslf said:

Ok, so their database "accounts for the 27,233 Trans-Atlantic slave ship voyages made between 1595 and 1866", True that the estimates of the transport of slaves are higher, before and after those dates, because it also doesn't account for the slave ships appearing before 1595 in the Caribbean and stopping off at different ports around the World selling and trading the slaves. Interesting;and the healthier and stronger the slaves were, the more expensive they were. The ones that became sick were thrown overboard.

At the NY Historical Society's "Slavery in America" exhibition, I remember seeing documented lists in a book, with the names of slaves and the prices for them listed next to their names, even children.They also had the original "draft" copy of the Emancipation Proclamation on display in a glass case;along with that, I also saw some real "shackles" displayed in a case that were used on the slaves' hands and feet.

Here's an excerpt from the NY Historical Society's Q&A page regarding the new exhibition - New York Divided: Slavery and the Civil War


A Conversation with New York Divided: Slavery and the Civil War chief historian James Horton and exhibition curator Richard Rabinowitz
(... and yes Mr. Rabinowitz is Jewish)

Q:
"If you had to point to one public misconception about New York and slavery, what would it be and why?"

A:
RR:"One public misconception is that we think of racism as a persistent, almost natural way for human beings to treat one another. But racial prejudice really has a history; it was invented during the period we cover in this exhibition to support the maintenance of southern slavery and northern profit. Strangely enough, during the period of slavery in New York, there is very little talk about the differences between blacks and whites. Once blacks got their freedom, a new system of racial control and hierarchy was substituted for the system of slavery in the north. It included segregation of schools, public transportation, the denial of equal rights and dignity to black New Yorkers in a way that was a handbook or tutorial for what the south would do during the period we call Jim Crow, the post Civil War period."


Q:
"Why do you think the topic of slavery has resonated with your audience?"

A:
RR: "I think a lot of New Yorkers, white and Asian and Latino as well as black, are excited to explore the true history of our city and our nation – how the issues we confront today are rooted in our past. At a time of media hype and political posturing, well-researched history is refreshing."

A:
JH: [i]"In America the institution of slavery was fundamentally bound to the issue of race. In addition to its economic functions slavery was also a critically important form of racial control. After its abolition at the end of the Civil War, new racial policies laying the foundation for legalized racial segregation became the mechanism of new racial control. All these things were based on the pseudo-science of race theory. These theories remained legally significant at least until the mid-1960s when Civil Rights legislation brought an end to legal segregation. Yet the effects of the almost 250 years of American slavery and one hundred years of legalized racial segregation have left their mark on the culture and assumptions of American society. Confronting the history of American slavery, uncomfortable as it can sometimes be, forces us to focus on the characteristics in our society and often in ourselves that have been influenced by that history. Racial differences and misunderstanding still hamper progress in American society. Ultimately, confronting this history will make it easier for many Americans to understand one another as we continue the conversation on race that is so important for the general health of our society."
[Edited 5/2/07 11:33am]

Taking the world-wide slave trade in consideration, there were definitely more than 1.4 million slaves who died on slave ships.
I wanted to clear up the misconception that it was only 1000-10,000 who died according to another orger. It's always good to look at the facts.

Huh?

meow85 said:

Theres this old joke; maybe youve heard it. There were 3 good old boys walking their dog through the woods and they came upon this Black dude. So they put a shotgun on him and say "We're going to bury you up to your neck and you have to fight our dog. If you beat him, we'll let you go." So they bury the brother and only his head is sticking out of the ground and they turn the dog loose on him. So the brother bites the dog's paw so hard he yelps and runs away. So one good old boy goes "Hey boy, fight my dog fair!"

Aint nobody dishing anything out, we just tired man.

JonnyApplesauce said:

Never heard it.....but I LIKES.

I'm sure that like any one else,
there are some racists who like it,
& some racists who don't.

Graycap23 said:

Unchanging surnames in the european sense are not the tradition of either Jews OR Africans. Jews were forced to take on last names by laws passed in the countries they resided in, and were sometimes given derogatory last names by officials. African slaves were either named for their slaveowners like people on here are saying or took new names when they were freed. Please it isn't easy to find your ancestory either way. But either way, those names ARE a part of our heritage.

Being offended that your family name was "taken away" is crazy if there wasn't one in the first place. As a jewish person I know MY last name is part of a history of jews being forced to live 'apart' from others. A more serious offense is the separation of children from their parents with no way of passing on family history. But the song isn't about that, is it.
Anyone on here who is comparing the jews and blacks is falling into a racist trap by downplaying what the other has suffered. And it's pointless!
The one question no one seems able to answer is why Prince would even choose to compare the plights of Blacks and Jews. I think in a religious way he is probably prejudiced against Jews.(Is that the same thing as racist? I don't even know.) Anyways check it out --- interesting facts below ---so we can all be more educated about ourselves and each other:

Ashkenazi Jewish surnames (excerpt) (http://www.answers.com/topic/family-name)
Until a few hundred years ago, Ashkenazim (Jews from Northern and Eastern Europe) followed no tradition of surnames, but used patronymics within the synagogue, and matronymics in other venues. For example, a boy named Joseph of a father named Isaac would be called to the Torah as Joseph ben Isaac. That same boy of a mother named Rachel would be known in business as Joseph ben Rachel. A male used the Hebrew word ben ("son") and a female used bas ("daughter").
Northern European countries legislated that Jews required "proper" surnames. The city mayors were to choose the name for every Jewish family.
In Prussia, special military commissions were created to choose the names. It became common that the poorer Jews were forced to adopt simply bizarre names or even derogatory, offensive ones. Among those created were:
Ochsenschwanz ("oxtail")
Temperaturwechsel ("temperature change")
Kanalgeruch ("sewer stink")
Singmirwas ("sing me something") [citation needed]
The Jews of Poland adopted names much earlier. Those who were adopted by a szlachta family usually changed the name to that of the family.

African traditions regarding surnames (http://www.namesite.com/namesite/faq.html)
Most African peoples do not distinguish between first names and surnames like Europeans generally do. So, whereas Smith is a surname and John a first name in the west, a name like Kamau (Gikuyu, Kenya, Quiet warrior) can be both a first (given) name and a surname. Thus many Africans are named Kamau as their given or first name and many others have Kamau as their surname.
What is the African naming system?
There is no single African naming system. Many different approaches are used in selecting names for children. The most common themes center around respect for ancestors and a deep desire to carry on the names of the ancestors, coupled with this is recognition of the circumstances of birth. Thus were the prior children twins, what day and time of day was the child born, what season etc. Many peoples in Africa also name children in honor of relatives or friends who have recently passed on so as to preserve their name and in the belief that they have been resurrected in the newborn child. (jews do that too!)

xplnyrslf said:

Any info of how many slaves remained in Africa??? How about numbers of slaves sold to Arab countrys????

kpowers said:

I remember that for a brief time,
Prince wrote the word "slave" on his face.

Illustrator said:

That was his protest against Warner brothers, I do belive.

Tremolina said:

Damned well said. Bravo.

The fact is comparisons can't be made with any sense of fairness because it too easily leads into judging which horror story was the worst, and by extension, which used and abused group has the most right to complain. Well, it just doens't work that way. Everyone got screwed.

It's not a racist album he just speaking the truth, more of a religious album if anything. why does the truth always have to mean racism? Africans and African descendants will remain in the struggle for a long long time, a long recovery.