Ifsixwuz9 said:

that tale has been told for years with zero support. some fools say "the sharks still swim that passages to this day"

SexyBeautifulOne said:

"just as bad" wow...interesting.
I'd love to know how you give your support time and money to antisemitism?
I think you'd happily lump me into the "sit idly by and talk about what they didn't do" category...cause I ain't gonna lie, I've never given time or money to any charities of that nature. BUT I do raise my children to be accepting of all people and to treat everyone with respect and dignity...does that count for anything or is that sitting idly?
How are you making a positive change?

SlamGlam said:

So you're actually saying that not one slave got dropped overboard because they were too sick to make the whole journey? Are you actually sitting there and saying this?

Ifsixwuz9 said:

oh i am sure there were many... but not millions maybe 1000 or 10000s but not millions. that is just stupid.
[Edited 4/27/07 11:01am]

this whole thread has gone to hell

SlamGlam said:

But your original reply seemed to suggest that because the numbers weren't accurate enough for your purposes (more like the government just doesn't want to admit how many slaves were actually taken) that the numbers Graycap put forth don't count.

I have run into people with this mindset before. It's called denial.

SlamGlam said:

Really? So that is your impression of us saying "get over it?" :

Crime: Can be performed by any racial group, no exceptions to this rule, only qualification is you just have to be part of the human race.

Poverty: Well, am I to assume you think all Black people are in poverty? Well, everyday lately, I have been passing more homeless "White" people" on the streets of Manhattan, than I saw years ago, and I am serious. So should I assume that "all White people" are homeless and find excuses to be in that situation? I think not buddy, that would be real ignorant thinking. See that's the thing, I have made many posts about "poor whites" that do exist,but the media does not bring that to light, as much as they focus their attention on "poor Blacks" that exist in this country.

Flunking out of school: Are you kidding me? Trust and believe this can happen to any race. It all depends on the individual and their situation. Let's try the Appalacchians, where the majority of the residents are on welfare and have a high drop out rate, oh and they are not Black, also in many poor areas of the South, mostly in the wooded-underdeveloped areas...just so you know..Flunking out of school does not require you to be of any particular race...along with poverty, which does not discriminate.

Let me see...hmm... my son, my nieces, nephews, sisters/brothers never flunked out of school, I graduated from college, .and oh...we're all Black.


Slam, I believe, you missed my point when I stated "get over it", I meant that there are some people that just don't want us (African Americans) to talk about it period. I mentioned that the people of the jewish faith talk about and remind others of what happened to their people, nothing wrong with that at all. We need to know that these things occurred so they won't happen again.

That is what I meant, it has nothing to do with "making excuses"...any human being can "make excuses" for their situations in life.


I think you've been watching too much "Law and Order".....I swear I am going to write you a song, and it's going to be called "Denial of the Fittest"..
[Edited 4/27/07 12:06pm]

InsatiableCream said:

Not really, this is pretty tame compared to the threads that were popping up when the album first came out.

Ifsixwuz9 said:[




i made no such suggestion you made that up.



it is called reason, i do not fall for people with political agendas who made up these 75Million number to support their cause.

the truth even if it was ONE dead person that is too many... the fact that one person was a slave is too many. but to make light of the holocaust is antisemitic.

2elijah said:[
?" :

are you saying that no black person has ever used slavery as an excuse for their situation or behaviors?

it is FUNNY that YOU want to make this about race when it is not about race.

SlamGlam said:

you know what slamglam this thread is not doing you justice. you accuse Prince of being insensitive and you're coming off far worse. First you downplay or deny lynching was apart of the slavery which was incredibly absurd, now your downplaying the number of people who died. How do you know it was not millions? Have you any idea the conditions the African slaves were transported in over sea? Fine, it may not be 75 millions but to say only 1000 or 10,000 slaves died over a span of a hundred years, even at sea, now that seems stupid.

In TRC children, Prince's point in Family Name is that in view of both atrocities, at least Jews were able to keep their name and heritage. This is not a Prince thing, this discussion has been going on for decades. For some Jews who have suffered ofcourse, this was not true, but in comparison to the slave trade, many slaves were taken from their village and thrown together on a ship with horrendous conditions, thrown together with people from different tribes, dialect, beliefs, etc. The point is once the slaves came to this land, the ties to their past-their name was gone and were forced to take on the names of their slave masters. Most of us do not know our African lineage.Ofcourse African culture was incorporated and carried down but individually we really have no ties to our true lineage.
[Edited 4/27/07 11:44am]

wonder505 said:[quote]
,

i did not downplay it at all. i said it was not a normal part of slavery....slaves were too expensive to just kill.




i was speaking of ones thrown over at sea only not total. for 75million to be right over 100 years it would be 20000+ a day... which is my point way too high of a number.

SlamGlam said:
i did not downplay it at all. i said it was not a normal part of slavery....slaves were too expensive to just kill.

Are you kidding???? Lynching was always apart of slavery and of the post-emancipation era. Slaves always made attempts to run away, what do you think happened to them as punishment? what do you think happened to the ones who were captured or refused to be raped or fought back?

SlamGlam said:
i was speaking of ones thrown over at sea only not total. for 75million to be right over 100 years it would be 20000+ a day... which is my point way too high of a number.

The slave trade itself lasted 500 years. Many were thrown over at sea, many jumped to their deaths and many died in captivity. and I am quite sure it was more than 10,000.

Wonder505 said:

^^...and there you have it...right on point, and in no way was he diminishing the atrocities of one over the other..

Wonder505 said:


^^

Packed like sardines in the most horrendous conditions:


Wonder505 said:


^^..."Family Name" comes to mind, our last names alone, to this present day,is "the proof in the pudding..living evidence of slavery.

...Wonder505, thank you for explaining that so eloquently, without unnecessary, childish name-calling and sarcasm.
[Edited 4/27/07 19:50pm]

This thread is proof positive that schools need to return to teaching logic and the principles of argumentation and debate.

wonder505 said:

so it is 400 a day... is that a reasonable number?

Aloisio said:

racist? maybe not
prejudicial? certainly so
most controversial album? among fans, yes

"uptown"

wonder505 said:

And that right there is the greatest crime of them all!

I'm an African American, right? I can not tell my children and won't be able to tell my grandchildren of their African heritage because I don't know what it is. All I can tell them about is their American heritage...which is what? Slavery, discrimination, segregation, misery, and suffering!

Sure I can tell them of the great resilience of our people but how do I do that without telling them why we have such great resilience?

Sure I can tell them how much we've overcome but how do I do that without telling them what we've overcome?

Sure I can tell them of the great strides and accomplishments of our people but how do I do that without telling them what our people had to endure to make those strides and accomplishments?

Just thinking about this shit makes my very soul ache and for those that can't or those that refuse to understand that the pain I feel each and every day is very real...all I can say is FUCK YOU!!

SlamGlam said:

was running away part of the norm? do you really think a slave owner would kill something that expensive on a regular basis?

that fact that you would ask if slaves running away was the norm is quite sad. you act as if massa kept his slaves in tip top shape, well-fed and healthy. do you know what lynching is? if they were expensive to slave owners as you point out why where they packed up like sardines and animals during the middle passage where many died before they even reach destination?

do you understand the conditions slaves were in on the ship and on land. If they were not directly killed they were indirectly killed from the horrific conditions there were forced into. i strongly suggest you read some books to educate yourself about the day in the life of a slave and then tell me if you think running away was the norm.

also, i do not believe 75 million died on the ship alone but to say it was between 1000 and 10,000 over a span of 500 years is not reasonable.
[Edited 4/27/07 12:18pm]

you are correct. i apologize for that.

slavery aside
many lived and died
but if truth be told
would you rather be hueman or mold

same logic

SlamGlam said:

Here's some info for SlamGlam:

"....when the desired number of African slaves was met for shipping, the voyage of middle passage continued from Africa on the slave ships going across the Atlantic Ocean with a destination in one of several ports in the West Indies and Caribbean (including: Cuba, Jamaica, Puerto Rico, Haiti, Santo Domingo, and the islands of St. Thomas, St. John, St. Croix, and Barbados). In the West Indies and Caribbean, some slaves were off-loaded and sold to work at the sugar plantations, also called the "Sugar Islands." The raw molasses was taken aboard the ships; then they sailed up the coast northbound for Newport or Bristol, Rhode Island's distilleries, to make rum from the molasses. Other stops along the Atlantic coast where slaves were exchanged for goods or cash were Charleston, South Carolina and Boston, Massachusetts. The goods produced by cheap slave labor were loaded aboard the now empty slave ships along with sugar, tobacco, or cotton for the trip back to England. The rum from the rum distillers went directly back to Africa for more slaves, bartering on this, the Triangular Trade Routes.

By 1768, the English slave trade had a figure of 53,000 slaves a year being shipped to the North American continent. Other slave traders included the French at 23,000, the Dutch at 11,000, and the Portuguese at 8,700 slaves being transported yearly from Africa. Estimates of up to 10 million slaves took the Middle Passage Voyage to reach the Americas"
[Edited 4/27/07 12:31pm]

2elijah said:

10 million < 75 million and even with babies that number can not accunt for 75 Million killed

Genesia said:

I swear, it looks like every thread regarding race lately has become a screaming match.

UCantHavaDaMango said:

i know it is crazy

SlamGlam said:

yeah, but you said.. thousands n 10 thousands. . which you were wrong.. the point being.. it is millions..

Flowerz said:

millions thrown overboard?

Aloisio said:

it's more about good vs the opposite of good; and ppl who choose to gett of on the negative while hurting others ...

UCantHavaDaMango said:

... and i don't think that was Princ's intention in composing the song