I heard that both Michael Richards & Imus own a copy.

Genesia said:

see what i mean, the operative word is "ill-equipped", you all make my point for me in comparing this to Imus by any stretch of the imagination. talk about apples and orages, try mangos and cauliflower. it's like a man clueless about his own patriarchy telling feminists that they're sexists in reverse. a black man mentions race issues and his album is misconstrued as racist. i wonder how many black writers went down that "rabbit trail"
[Edited 4/27/07 0:46am]

"No it isn't, only clueless white folks ill-equipped to understand complex issues related to race, slavery and oppression would accuse TRC of being such an album."


This is fucking ignorant! There are some SERIOUS Anti-Semetic sentiments on the record, and some damned offensive things said about women. That being said, the record still grooves. But don't you DARE try and say that Jews don't know about racism and oppression.

of course jews are familiar with oppression. however some people distinguish btwn ethnicity and race esp. when issues of assimilation are considered, but that notwithstanding, refresh my memory if you could about specific statements on TRC you deemed anti-semitic. if you don't have anything "on the ready" that you can think of don't worry about it. (i don't think this is the best form for a discussion like this anyway) but i'm curious. i've learned that sometimes the truth can result in an "anti-" label being attached to the sentiment.

jackmitz said:

I've always said it's the Jews and the blacks that r most vocal about racism, slavery and oppression, as though they were the only 1's subjected 2 it

I apologize for the angry tone...But I was pretty steamed when I heard some of the lines one TRC...And on The War as well. I hate when threads on the Org get angry, and I'm sorry for contributing to that. Peace.

christos7 said:

now this is funny.

you're complaining that these two groups don't care for injustice so they make sure the world knows it. don't be upset because some would rather be passive aggressive in their oppression.

lawdy....


and If, yeah I know but still...its like going over to associated artist and seeing the "Which one of Prince's women is the prettiest" for the 16546546546 time.

NDRU said:

Having said that though, isn't Prince's idea of "coming together as one" (on this album at least) all about us becoming followers of a single religion (in this case JW)?

I believe that in trying to get across an important issue (in this case slavery) Prince showed a degree of poor judgement by not also being sensitive to other races (in this case being Jewish).

I would absolutely hate to think that the same guy who has multi-cultural male and female bands was in any way racist!

jaypotton said:

Aren't the Melvoins, Lisa, and Bobby Z Jewish? "Family Name" baffles me.

some say it is antisemitic

some say he is just comparing the holocaust to slavery and saying slavery is worst. that is it worst to be a slave than to die. which shows his lack of understanding of history. Jews in the camps were slaves too... granted it was much shorter time period but still... but how many black slaves were burnt to death to make room for more?

datdude said:

why couldn't it have just said "ill-equipped" people?
I do find it funny that you say " a black man mentions race issues and his album is misconstrued as racist." when that's true for a white man too. Shit, if a white guy says anything at all about the white or black race he's a racist.
we're all soooo PC now that we're all pointing our fingers at everyone, we need to just stop it, stop being so insensative, stop being so sensative, stop being offended, stop sueing, and just start being humans....together.
ugh!

SlamGlam said:

I don't know...do the ones burnt to death while being lynched in front of cheering mobs count?

SexyBeautifulOne said:

if you are comparing the over all histories. lynching was not part of slavery in general burning Jews was part of the holocaust. but this topic demonstrates the dangers of comparing one bad thing to another. for prince to assert that slavery was worst than the holocaust is insensitive to Jews...especially given that there are some Holocaust survivors alive today. it is also insensitive to the modern day salves.
[Edited 4/27/07 6:41am]

datdude said:

The Imus comparison was raised (I think -- it wasn't I who raised it, so I can only speculate) because you qualified your "ill-equipped" statement by hanging it on "white folks." Don't try to gloss over that little issue after the fact, please.

SlamGlam said:

You're kidding me right Slam Glam? There's descendants of Black slaves still around today too. (now you're going to force me to post some pics showing that burning bodies, lynching and being chained up like animals actually happened to Black people)
[Edited 4/27/07 7:59am]

2elijah said:

you need to re-read what i said. before you go off on some wild tangent. being a descendant of a slave is not the same as being a freed slave.

Really? Hmm... Now how would you know? Please..I would love to hear your opinion on the difference between the two? Please..pray tell since I am a descendant of one... in the meantime you can check out the links below. darnit I love these type of converations, I'm sure you and I can agree to disagree, respectively of course.(Note to Slammy: Went to get popcorn while patiently awaiting your opinion on this...I'll be back...'kay?



(Warning: graphic images)

This happened about 65 years ago:
http://i59.photobucket.co...burned.jpg

Tools used to chain slaves:
http://i59.photobucket.co...smasks.jpg

Packed Africans like sardines - more they brought over, the more money they made:
http://i59.photobucket.co...sships.jpg
[Edited 4/27/07 9:59am]

Shorty said:

well said

SlamGlam said:

http://www.spartacus.scho...nching.htm



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching



http://xroads.virginia.ed.../hall.html

Anx said:

Now, that's funny. I hope you have someone at work who is your foil.

About TRC. It seemed that some people at the Chicago Theatre during the ONA show was pretty uncomfortable with the Abraham Lincoln comment.

jbchavez said:

There is a growing belief that Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves by force, not because he cared about them. There are also documents out there, old letters with Lincoln using very racist terms in speeches when referring to the slaves and indicating if he could unite the union without freeing the slaves he could or that he preferably wanted them sent back to Africa.

SlamGlam said:

i don't understand this statement. can you explain further?

Suggested Readings:


Forced into Glory: Abraham Lincoln's White Dream - Lerone Bennett, Jr.


Jews and Blacks: A Dialogue on Race, Religion, and Culture in America, with Michael Lerner. New York: Dutton/Plume, 1996.

Jews and Blacks: Let the Healing Begin, with Michael Lerner. New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1995

Debating Race: Michael Eric Dyson


The House that Race Built - Cornel West, Angela Y. Davis, Toni Morrison

Race Matters: Cornel West
[Edited 4/27/07 8:58am]

Oh brother is right....

It's about the TRUTH if your willing to do The Work...

Would you rather be dead or be sold?

wonder505 said:

It's not a growing belief. Anyone who's studied the rhetoric of the antebellum and Civil War period is very much aware that Lincoln was not moved to free the slaves on altruistic or moral grounds -- at least initially.

There is no question that Lincoln's first priority was to preserve the Union. At first, it seemed that the best way to do that was to allow slavery to exist in the states where it already did, while limiting slavery's spread to new states or territories. The Kansas-Nebraska Act (and the subsequent situation in "Bloody Kansas") changed all that.

With respect to "back to Africa," Lincoln believed (and while it is considered racist 150 years later, it was a common belief at the time) that repatriation was the best thing for former slaves. He wrote that they would never be accepted on an equal footing in the United States and, yes -- might not even be the intellectual or moral equals of white people.

However, I think it is important to understand that a lot of former slaves and descendents of slaves also believed that a life in Africa was preferable to remaining in a country that had enslaved them.

wonder505 said:

that there are today Jews that were held in concentration camps there are NO living freed slaves. so for anyone to say "slavery is worst than the Holocaust" is insensitive to the living survivors of the holocaust

wonder505 said:

this is not NEW. look at the Lincoln Douglas debates. Lincoln pretty much won by tricking Douglas into saying something anti-slavery
[Edited 4/27/07 9:00am]

SlamGlam said:

well I know it's not new. perhaps "growing belief" was the wrong term. I had this discussion in class almost 15 years ago.