I guess I've always looked at and Prince as being One, inseparable, united. It was just that came from a higher place of understanding and freedom than Prince when fashioning songs. But I think the parts of the whole influenced the whole completely.

I enjoyed reading your assessment.

LittleRedCorvette said:

Thanx.

That one statement really does ring true in this album. definitely seems to be more free than Prince on some of the tracks. But in the last song was the clencher, in "Gold", Prince really sounded free and liberated, having grasped a small piece of the enlightenment his soul was ultimately searching for.

This is what I said about Dolphin yesterday

Dolphin 1/2
Prince’s lyrics spoken through ’s voice and music. Prince speaks about reincarnation as and the reasons why. Prince connects me thru the song making it easier to learn. ’s best guitar playing because he learned it all from Prince himself. The two persona work together very well in this song.

This is what I say now.

The song's extremely spiritual, one of the reasons why I think that's overall what the album is meant to be. It doesn't sound like Prince's style of music because it's so laid-back, but it's also very happy and joyous. Perhaps this song goes to show that Prince stumbled onto a piece of enlightenment he was searching for when he changed his name to and took a hard look into his heart.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

The cool thing about dolphin is the passion that comes through without being outrageous. Now & Endorphinmachine are cool & passionate, but in a more obvious way. Dolphin is subtle & beautiful.

NDRU said:

Yeah, that's very true. I think the passion and enthusaism lies in the use of guitar in this song. I really like that a lot, makes it really come alive. The build-up to it sure sounds like something I've heard in another non-Prince song, not really original, but the guitar solo that follows is just brilliant.

And actually, I'd rank Endorphinmachine and Now at the bottom of the heap of songs this album has. I don't really see a point in EM, except for Prince to play a lot of heavy electric guitar, one of his fav. things to add to his songs.
Now is just of a genre I listen to as rarely as it is and it's kinda blahh for me.

It's strange, though. I feel that We March and Now are of roughly the same genre, but they're complete opposites. We March is a little uplifting in its own right and that's what I like about it.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

One of my all time favorite's!! ...if I came back as a dolphin, would you listen to me then, would you let me be your fantacy? would you let me in...

Jakeasaurus said:

That's funny because I absolutely love the album, it's my fave of his, and I like 3121 quite well too. I think the album is teeming with more potential hits than perhaps any of his other works. It just came out at the wrong time with the wrong selection of singles.

PaisleyPark5083 said:

Definitely among the top of the ranks on TGE for me. Actually, I'll rank them right now.

1. Gold
2. Shh/TMBGITW (tie)
4. Dolphin/Eye Hate U (tie)
6. P. Control
7. We March
8. Shy (it's only lower on the list cuz I haven't listened to it enough and I'm not sure if I like it or like it a lot... actually feels like it could have been on Musicology cuz its old-school-esque)
10. 319/Billy Jack (tie) (need a few more listens to be sure)

11. Now
12. Endorphinmachine

It's really tough with a lot of these to actually rank them becuz I get the same thrill out of a couple of them.
The instrumentals on Shh (for beautiful guitar) and TMBGITW (for keyboards)definitely make them stick in my mind and tempt me to listen to them a few extra times.
I've listened to Shy, 319 and Billy Jack the least amount of times, so I'm unsure where to rank them. It's not that I have anything against them, they just come to mind less.
Now and Endorphinmachine are the only two tracks I really can't get into at all. They both seem a little pointless (meaning that they don't have one) and for some part, sounds like a foreign language to me. I can't really get into Endorphinmachine for that reason, and Now is a genre I'm not into.

Comparing them to Purple Rain, they're a lot more mature (meaning they're put together just a little better)... except for the comparison of 319 & Darling Nikki... 319 is just a tamer/"Diet Coke" version of Nikki, but its still fun.

However, when I listened to "When Doves Cry" a little while ago, for the first time in a while on its own, not as part of the album, I got to thinking. That's one of the finest pieces of 80's Prince and I'm still in love with it. It was like a familiar/friendly face I hadn't seen in a long time. I miss that warm, fuzzy feeling. I don't get it quite as much with the TGE tracks, but the ones higher on my ranks definitely ring true for different reasons.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

As has been previously mentioned, there's no real way, artistically, to split from Prince. The material of TGE was not written in an artistic bubble. Many of these tracks appeared on different compilations along side other songs over that period, many of which ended up on Come, before the final product arrived. Some were written prior to the supposed name change, etc...

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

Give Billy Jack Bitch, more time!! I have it on constant replay, get's me dancing!

PaisleyPark5083 said:

I definitely will. I'll do w/e I can to break ties. Considering we didn't hit it off in the beginning, I find it amazing that I found something in it that I liked and gives me a reason to keep playing it. I can't quite remember what it was, but it got very catchy. I did play a couple of times yesterday, but today, I didn't get in the mood for it.

Today was very weird. I had so much free time, but didn't get to listening to any music until around 7:30. I mixed and matched Purple Rain tracks with TGE tracks... had some interesting results. I'm just glad that there wasn't any "conflict" like last time (having TGE fresh in my mind and watching "Purple Rain"= not a good combination, especially when TGE is roughly new to me).

I think I got sucked into Prince's ego after combining 319, Computer Blues and Darling Nikki... not that that's a bad thing, but there's so much more to him. That's why "When Doves Cry" was such a breath of fresh air.

Depending on the material, giving it a good few listens helps me determine how much I like it. I didn't hit it off initially with "Doves", "Computer Blues" and "Darling Nikki" (for diff. reasons)... but I love them all. I definitely rank "When Doves Cry" among my favorites overall.

P. Control and We March are a couple I didn't hit it off with initally, but they grew on me. Giving some of the other tracks time is definitely among my priorities.

And for anyone who wants to challenge my rankings of Now and Endorphinmachine, I listened to them a great deal of times... still ain't impressed.

jtfolden said:

Shh, I'm convinced was written b4 the name change just because of the style.
What I mainly meant about "splitting" the two persona is that the style that Prince used for some of the tracks didn't feel like something he could do on his own, so he had a little help from the person inside him (which he's mentioned in a couple of interviews) that I think is his persona. The style used with 's help is a little "free-er", out of the box and a bit more spiritual than Prince had been able to use previously.
Overall, I think he was getting in touch with his own heart and soul throughout the album, which is why I call it spiritual to a certain degree.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

No offense but, if you're a new fan, then I think perhaps you're looking back and being influenced by the marketing methods and the really wacky things that Prince was doing at the time to attempt to undermine W.B. control. There's no tangible evidence that the name change was anything other than a manipulation and I think Prince has made reference to this after the fact.

Also, like I said, the music that eventually made it's way onto TGE wasn't written specifically for that purpose and quite a bit of it was recorded well before. Some recorded alongside tracks for Come, some written originally for Glam Slam Ulysses. Dolphin and Endorphinemachine were recorded back in January 93 with other tracks that ended up on Come, for example.

When it came down to splitting the tracks into two albums, he chose the darker, quirkier music for Come and the more commercial material for TGE. He wanted WB to release them both at the same time as a marketing gimmick - New music against "old" Prince, despite the fact that it was all recorded during the same period.

These type of shenanigans aren't unusual for Prince. Witness the stories (both real and made up for marketing purposes) around The Black Album and LoveSexy.

jtfolden said:

Yes, I am a roughly new fan. While sometimes I wish that he put Endorphinmachine on "Come" becuz it kinda doesn't go with the other tracks on TGE, it still kinda works. No matter which disc it'd be on, I still am not crazy about it.
And maybe I do see the 2 personalities because compared to everything I've been exposed to so far, the style of music is pretty unusual.
I guess I'd have to purchase Come to be sure (the price I saw was on $8.99, so thats not too bad), but I'm a bit hesitant just because I might not be into the "darker" side of Prince. I've heard that the Come album is overall pretty dark.
But my original concern was just purchasing the best of his albums that could sustantiually cover a few different eras.
D&P and Emancipation seem like good investments because they were in the eras that came b4 and after this one.
In my next listen, I'll experiment a little and drop "Now" from the playlist... the song just bores me to death and it doesnt really go with the rest... well, it might go with Billy Jack... cuz they're roughly the same style of music.
At least P. Control has We March to balance it out and Endorphinmachine could probably go 2, although Shh does balance it pretty good.
Ok, I gotta go to class, I'll be back in a couple of hours.

Here's my Re-evaluation after listening to The Gold Experience just now.

And a little note: I left out "Now" just because it doesn't really fit the "package".

I felt like I really got into Prince's mind in this album after giving it another listen.
Right now, I'm perfectly speechless. There's something about it that makes it feel superior... not sure to which of my albums, but I shall see with time.

I called it a "spiritual" album and I still do, because I feel that what it's about is Prince searching for a piece of enlightenment. He's taking a hard look into himself, taking us with him on his journey thru different genres and different subject matters, coming to several conclusions about himself. "Now" doesnt really have a lesson in it, so it's why it doesn't fit.

Surprisingly (to me), I left Endorphinmachine in the mix just because the album's not the same w/o it. It takes P. Control to the next level and Shh helps level out the sudden boost in energy. EM & Shh is Prince exploring himself in the sexual sense. EM kinda runs on ego and Shh helps ground him a bit.
Certain elements in the following songs is Prince basically exploring in his heart and in his soul (TMBGITW & Dolphin, respectively). 319 steps back into the ego, but Shy is a good equalizer (it's a bit of the odd-ball of the bunch becuz its style sounds like Musicology material).
Billy Jack, I feel like I was really listening to the first time (lyrics included). I need to spent more time with it, but it's basically Prince exploring the first amendment.
Eye Hate U kinda ties up the bow for Prince's heart's journey in the album.
But Gold says it all for me. Prince is coming to grips with himself and finally found the enlightenment he was searching for in the end.
what's the use of money if you ain't gonna break the mold? is saying that it's not money that is gold and makes the difference, it's something that comes from inside.

Do I still believe that and Prince co-exist? Yes. In this album? Not as much as I originally thought.
With each listen, this album becomes more and more of a Prince album, but of a different color.
That color is Gold and it's the color of the enlightenment he finally finds at the album's end.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

I think you're going to have a hard time properly evaluating Prince's output if you don't have all the surrounding releases. TGE might sound worlds away from D&P, even something that could be produced by a different artist. Once you hear and Come, however, then TGE doesn't sound so out of place or different. It's a natural progression.

Plus, just for me personally, -Come-TGE is pretty much my favorite period of output.




I'm not a fan of BJB but "Now" is one of my faves from that disc. TGE is meant to be a commercial yet eclectic disc, show-casing Prince's many strengths.

jtfolden said:

I just don't like Now because its a genre I really wouldn't listen to otherwise and I just find it overall boring.
But TGE does show-case a lot of Prince's strengths, but I'm amazed about what I found out about it as a whole a few hours ago (see my previous post).
Some songs do stand out more than others, its like that with any album, but I'll most likely look over Shy and Billy Jack becuz I didn't feel they were as strong as some of the others.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

$8.99 is a bargain...Come is a magnificent album. I personally think it's his best of the '90s. It is a pretty dark album, though. You might be put off by it initially, as I was. But then when I came back to it again one day, something clicked, and now I love it -- the energy, the emotion in it is great.

My only problem with it is that I think the Universal Love Mix of "Space" should have been on the album in place of the regular version. I heard it once on the radio and LOVED it, but I was disappointed when I got the album and it was a different version. I tried to order the CD single from Amazon, but by that time it was out of print. I wish I had a copy of that song!

love4oneanother said:[quote]

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

Come is a subtle album and, I've found, best listened to as a whole. It didn't knock me over the head when I first heard it like some do but it grew on me rather quickly.




I have the maxi-single for Space and the Universal Love mix is great. In the context of the album, I really do like the normal version best, though.

Come isn't as crazy as and doesn't have the songwriting of Gold, but it's a cool album (virtually) from beginning to end. There's not really that embarassingly cheesy moment that you'd rather your friends didn't hear (subject to argument, of course!)

Come (the song) is a masterpiece of nastiness.

Of the three I probably pick . It's a mess, but it's a hot mess. He hits highs musically on it that may well be his greatest peaks. And the complexity is really something to be admired. The NPG had really learned to play as a band, not just session guys. And Prince was entering a new phase in his life.

NDRU said:

Is it really a mess? I never actually considered it to be so. If anything I think it's a testament to how masterful Prince can be with a complex arrangement (both track by track and as a whole work). is essentially the sonic opposite of Sign O' The Times. One is literally stripped down to a skeleton production while the other makes use of everything, up to and including the kitchen sink. Even the rapping that was so 'tacked on' in D&P is integrated as as just another sound in the production.

jtfolden said:

You're right, it's masterfully arranged, and like I said, it's maybe his most complex album musically and thematically. I guess what I mean compared to Come (or even NPS) is that it's more complete, covering all the bases (including the kitchen sink, as you say), and as a result strays into moments that break up the flow.

I've always said that Prince's strength & weakness is his music often doesn't work as background music, because it doesn't create a single mood. exemplifies this idea the most for me. You can't just groove to it, you need to concentrate & listen to it and follow it through the radical changes.

I love it myself, but it's not for everyone.
[Edited 3/28/07 15:48pm]

NDRU said:

Which is why "All over the map" is probably a better description, than being a 'mess'. Mess implies, to me, that Prince just threw a bunch of things at the speaker without regard but listening to a track like "Love 2 the 9's" or "The Max" you can see that no matter how musically dense it is each additional layer adds to it in a very specific way. It's not just noise for the sake of noise, it's almost Prince's very own wall of sound.

Ok guys, we're getting a little off topic here.

Boy... I'm finding it kinda hard to get back to Musicology & 3121 after focusing so much on TGE.

I listened to few earlier tracks... earlier and there's definitely a significant difference between Prince from '82-'84 and from '93-'95 (basically the years TGE covered)... "1999" and "When Doves Cry" come off as 80's songs written by a young genius. But comparing "Little Red Corvette" and "The Beautiful Ones" to some of the tracks from TGE... forget it... there's SUCH a huge difference. Dare I say it... TGE's material makes 80's Prince seem a bit 'juvenile'... He really has improved a great deal in 10 years.
Don't get me wrong, I still love those classics.

But I came to this conclusion earlier today:

"Purple Rain" comes off as Prince slowly maturing as it progresses. Both in music style & choice of lyrics. "Let's Go Crazy" and "Take Me With U" seem a little less constructed. The following 3 are pretty much Prince raging on hormones... and he grounds himself, taking a hard look at himself with "When Doves Cry". I don't know where the following tracks fit into the scheme of things, but the way they connect show a maturation in style... then Purple Rain... the combination of instruments and such is pure sophistication, and we're back seeing the musical genius we all know and love. The fact I came up with that overall message for the album still blows me away, but its true.

TGE is a very spiritual album to Prince, I believe. He's experimenting with various genres while taking a hard look into his heart and soul to see who he truly is. Throughout it, you'll say him exploring his spiritual side and looking into the depths of his heart, as well exploring his "sex-driven" ego.
Leaving "Now" out of the mix makes this work.
P. Control, Endorphinmachine, Shh, 319 & Shy (subtly)- the up's and down's of Prince's "sex-driven" ego
TMBGITW & Eye Hate U- Prince looking into his heart (Eye Hate U can also overlap with his "sex-driven" ego, but subtly)
We March, Dolphin & Gold- Prince exploring his spirituality
I've yet to see where Billy Jack configures into my scheme of things, but I'll figure it out.
From the start, Prince was searching for a certain enlightenment to help him truly figure out what he wants to be, and Gold shows that he finds it.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

Actually, for historical purposes, Prince recorded the Bulk of Come and TGE between Jan 93 and Jan 94.

Dolphin, Dark, Come, Endorphinmachine, Papa, Pheromone - January 1993
Loose! - February 1993
Space, Pope, Strays of The World, Interactive, What's My Name? - May 1993
TMBGITW - September 1993
Now, Ripopogodazippa, Shy, Gold, 319, Billy Jack Bitch - October 1993
Hide The Bone - November 1993
TMBGITW (new version), Days of Wild, Eye Hate U, Shhh, - January 1994

He then began submitting various versions of Come and TGE to WB around march 94 while they haggled back and forth about marketing, etc.
Later he would go back in the studio and complete a few more tracks for each album:

Letitgo - March 1994
Come #2 (Release version) - April 1994
Pussy Control - July 1994

In the end WB chose Come to release first in August 94 because it still had the "Prince" name attached to it. By the time WB finally agreed to release TGE in September 95, many of the tracks were almost 2 1/2 years old and Prince had moved on.

There's also the issue of the Chaos & Disorder tracks, not mentioned but recorded during and shortly after the above period and on into 1996 as he worked on Emancipation. So those 3 albums were essentially culled from all the same period, often sharing songs and track lists over time. This is why it's good to hear all the output from that era. This is distinctly different than say where a majority of the tracks were recorded with a certain focus or intent in mind in a rather short space of time - less than 6 months, and then released fairly quickly afterwards.
[Edited 3/28/07 21:14pm]

jtfolden said:

Actually, I knew that the songs from were 93 and 94... I just included 95 cuz that's when the album came out.

Thanx for the extra info, though, I had no idea about the particular dates of the diff. songs. Based on my view of Gold, I kinda thought he wrote it later on... but w/e. You can't change history, but it won't change the way I see Gold as Prince grasping a piece of the enlightenment he had been searching for.
I could interpret Gold so many different ways right now and there are diff. interpretations for me to think up in the future, but I don't have the space.
It really sums up what the album stands for, IMO.

DreamyPopRoyalty said:

Well, I was just clarifying that, artistically, TGE doesn't contained a record of where Prince was at by the time 1995 rolled around.



You might, as an interesting exercise, listen to Dolphin and Gold back to back and look at them - rather than as a spiritual expression - as reflections of Prince's frustrations over his situation with WB at the time they were recorded. This all leads into his tantrums over contracts and writing Slave on his face.

jtfolden said:

I hope I can write this the same way I did a few minutes ago... darn my computer.

Interesting idea and I'll keep it in mind.
I can see how they could be interpreted with the frustrations with WB. The first time I heard Dolphin was during the Letterman performance and that's the original way I interpreted it. It was the first time I saw Prince with "SLAVE" written on his face and the performance was enough to show me that he was unhappy. He wasn't playing his usual best. But I've found some light in the song by finding a spiritual alternative.
in the case of "Gold", I like to see it in a spiritual sense. It's a song that's already helped me a few times. It's also a song where Prince has connected with me and I find that an important, desirable quality in Prince's work. I don't get that from music by other singers, at least not as deeply as in this case.
The first time I heard "Gold" I'll never forget. At one of the boardie's suggestion (you know who you are), I watched "Love 4 1 Another" on housequake. I wasn't impressed with some of the other songs he did (remember this was quite a few weeks ago). Then "Gold" came. The instant I heard it, my ears perked up (as Prince said his do whenever he hears music) and I was taken in. I felt like it reached my soul and made it cry out for joy. The song more than once has brought tears to my eyes for those reasons.
I call "Gold" my soul tattoo for a reason. I carry it with me wherever I go and when I need the comfort, it comes to mind and reassures me. The fact that Prince has connected w/me a few times thru the song pretty much sums up why it's rivaling "Purple Rain" for my #1 spot of fav. Prince songs.