blackguitaristz said:

Um, you have yet to show me a Hendrix song that is comparable to "Insatiable" or "Pussy Control".

I don't see why Prince and Hendrix need to be compared outside of "lead guitar playing"...

skywalker said:

Going by what u stated, as far as Hendrix not being around long enough, that's impossible to do. "Foxey Lady" is Jimi's Pussy Control, lyrically. Theme wise, two entirely differnt writers, lyrically. Jimi wrote more about love or longing for love in his ballads. Much closer to what P wrote on his second album.

blackguitaristz said:

I get what you are saying. Foxey Lady and Pussy Control are similar thematically. However, to say that they are close to the same thing is a big stretch. Jimi bent rock/blues in all different directions. He didn't do dance music.

For the most part, this is what I have been saying the whole time. Jimi forever changed rock music. He did tripped out blues music and added all things psychadelic. It was revolutionary to be sure, but not enough that anyone should claim things like "Prince is in Jimi's shadow, or that, "Prince isn't there yet." To claim things like that is to embelish what Hendrix actually did. It's not a competion and cannot be judged as such.

Sure, Jimi is God on guitar. That being said Prince has done things musically that Jimi never dreamed of. Not saying it's better, just that Prince has had so much more music. His range of musical styles is much larger than Jimi's. That's just a fact. Listen to both of their albums for the proof. This is why comparsions between the two are problematic. The only way these two can honestly be compared is in guitar playing,attitude, and fashion. You cannot even compare legacy/cultural impact because it is waaaay too early.Jimi died young 30+ years ago and Prince is still alive and well. Come back when Prince is 30 years gone and we'll talk.
[Edited 3/22/07 17:03pm]

skywalker said:

I hope you were not mistaking my post as being disrespectful to the amazing musical legacy of Jimi Hendrix. But I disagree with you regarding the breadth and complexity of his catalog. He stayed rooted in the blues/rock fundamentals not withstanding his revolutionary guitar work. We will never know where his compositional skills would have taken him. Prince has created a unique genre-defying and category-less hybrid of funk, jazz, soul, R&B, piano ballads, art new wave, and rock. He is influenced by Jimi, Joni Mitchell, JB, the Beatles, Sly, Carlos, Miles, Weather Report and a number of artists all over the map. He has informed artists of every stripe. Just look at the diversity of the artists he has influenced (Beck, Outcast, Foo Fighters, Sinead, etc.)

And if you think that "Kiss", "1999" and "SOTT" are minor fan-only statements you have lost perspective of pop culture. What's unique about Prince is that he is a very idiosyncratic polymath and underground talent who happened by some miracle to gain a huge international audience. I believe it is a credit to his undeniable genius. I used to have these same arguments in college regarding Jimi and Prince. They would be listening to their same "classic" radio stations with the never changing playlists. Prince has reached every possible demographic in a more segregated musical environment. What is truly amazing is that after 30 years, P is still able to amaze, confound, instigate interest and defy expectations.

"I've played Lacrosse, let them do Housequake" - Prince

[/quote]

I hope you were not mistaking my post as being disrespectful to the amazing musical legacy of Jimi Hendrix. But I disagree with you regarding the breadth and complexity of his catalog. He stayed rooted in the blues/rock fundamentals not withstanding his revolutionary guitar work. We will never know where his compositional skills would have taken him. Prince has created a unique genre-defying and category-less hybrid of funk, jazz, soul, R&B, piano ballads, art new wave, and rock. He is influenced by Jimi, Joni Mitchell, JB, the Beatles, Sly, Carlos, Miles, Weather Report and a number of artists all over the map. He has informed artists of every stripe. Just look at the diversity of the artists he has influenced (Beck, Outcast, Foo Fighters, Sinead, etc.)

And if you think that "Kiss", "1999" and "SOTT" are minor fan-only statements you have lost perspective of pop culture. What's unique about Prince is that he is a very idiosyncratic polymath and underground talent who happened by some miracle to gain a huge international audience. I believe it is a credit to his undeniable genius. I used to have these same arguments in college regarding Jimi and Prince. They would be listening to their same "classic" radio stations with the never changing playlists. Prince has reached every possible demographic in a more segregated musical environment. What is truly amazing is that after 30 years, P is still able to amaze, confound, instigate interest and defy expectations.

"I've played Lacrosse, let them do Housequake" - Prince[/quote]

Um, I am not sure who you are talking to. I agree with pretty much everything you are saying and have said. I meant no disrespect to Hendrix either, you said it yourself though, "He stayed rooted in the blues/rock fundamentals not withstanding his revolutionary guitar work. We will never know where his compositional skills would have taken him."

Right?

skywalker said:

I hope you were not mistaking my post as being disrespectful to the amazing musical legacy of Jimi Hendrix. But I disagree with you regarding the breadth and complexity of his catalog. He stayed rooted in the blues/rock fundamentals not withstanding his revolutionary guitar work. We will never know where his compositional skills would have taken him. Prince has created a unique genre-defying and category-less hybrid of funk, jazz, soul, R&B, piano ballads, art new wave, and rock. He is influenced by Jimi, Joni Mitchell, JB, the Beatles, Sly, Carlos, Miles, Weather Report and a number of artists all over the map. He has informed artists of every stripe. Just look at the diversity of the artists he has influenced (Beck, Outcast, Foo Fighters, Sinead, etc.)

And if you think that "Kiss", "1999" and "SOTT" are minor fan-only statements you have lost perspective of pop culture. What's unique about Prince is that he is a very idiosyncratic polymath and underground talent who happened by some miracle to gain a huge international audience. I believe it is a credit to his undeniable genius. I used to have these same arguments in college regarding Jimi and Prince. They would be listening to their same "classic" radio stations with the never changing playlists. Prince has reached every possible demographic in a more segregated musical environment. What is truly amazing is that after 30 years, P is still able to amaze, confound, instigate interest and defy expectations.

"I've played Lacrosse, let them do Housequake" - Prince[/quote]

Um, I am not sure who you are talking to. I agree with pretty much everything you are saying and have said. I meant no disrespect to Hendrix either, you said it yourself though, "He stayed rooted in the blues/rock fundamentals not withstanding his revolutionary guitar work. We will never know where his compositional skills would have taken him."

Right?[/quote]

Sorry about that, I meant to attach it to Whodknee's comments.

skywalker said:[quote]

U have got to be kidding me, right? Especially "Pussy Control". Then again, taste is a subjective thing and I don't feel much like debating - this thread is already too long...

So why even bother?

I've been reluctant to chime in here, this type of thread has been done to death many times over but, can anyone point me to a single track past or present that exemplifies Prince's Hendrix influence in regard to his lead guitar playing?

I've said a few times before that in my opinion Hendrix did not influence his playing as heavily as some folks claim. You can talk about stage histronics, his use of effects posturing etc. as much as you like. I'm talking about notes phrasing & overall feel. Prince's playing stripped of all the window dressing isn't very "Hendrixy" at all if you ask me. I was a Prince admirer for many years, didn't hear then, still don't hear it now. In spirit I guess the connection certainly is there but in terms of what's actually being played...I don't think so.

There are a gaggle of other guitarist where the Hendrix influence is obvious and in some instances painfully so. (LOL) I just don't beleive Prince falls into this catagory.
[Edited 3/23/07 10:14am]
[Edited 3/23/07 10:26am]
[Edited 3/24/07 7:17am]

I really haven't listened to JH much, only a song or 2, but they are both talented in their own unique way. All guitarist have a unique sound. "That's Entertainment"

kstrat you want examples of prince playing guitar simular to jimi
all prince guitar leads on dirty mind,contraversy tour
fury snl version
bambi any version
blues in g(first avenue blues)
all his leads on sacrfise of victor
all of his leads on the undertasker video
let's go crazy
witness for the prossecution blues rock version
interactive
zannele
and many more contain jimi influanced licks.
i think prince have phases where he is more into santana(rave 2000 dvd)
or more into jimi

if you want more detailed info
fury snl have some phrases that are lifted directly from voodoo child slight return.
bambi from paisley park celebration 2002 is pure jimi hendrix.

i have a theory about prince that
he ventures more into jimi when he practise more and he is more
into carlos when he practise less because carlos
phrasing is much easier then jimi's playing style.

ok, would it be correct to say that, g-artists tend to (don't want it to sound like the word COPY) do something on the dang g that some one else has done which inturn would be a difficult thing (i.e. chord) to do. I've listened to a few of my family members do this and then to each other.

thebanishedone said:

my own theory is that prince don't practice much no mo' and ain't for many, many years...and gets by on accumulated knowledged and the shear amount of playing he does...I've come to think this b/c I haven't heard alot of new ideas in his guitar playing over the years...in fact, although he's gone through several different approaches to his tone (by changing or altering his guitars, amplification, efx, etc) over the years, I'd submit that today he's actually got lesser 'chops' and fewer vibrant ideas than he had in his the years when he was for me at his guitar playing 'peak', say 1980-1990...of course this TOTALLY my opinion and completely subjective...I think prince practices a lil bit when he really wants to shine and then since he don't practice often what actually comes across is his deep emotional connection with the instrument (which is all that really matters anyway IMO) as opposed to technique, unique, original and forward looking musical ideas... fairly recent examples I would give would be the emancipation concert 10 yrs back and the british awards last year and perhaps even the superbowl this year... I think his playing in those settings is head and shoulders above where he was cruising at in (bootlegged) concerts of the same period/era that I've heard...nitpicky stuff I know but hey, I'm a fan (short for fanatic)!!

I agree with the cat who says when you actually break it all down, there's not alot of hendrix stylings in prince's actual performances...prince don't really rip off or try to channel jimi in his playing, I don't think...thats not to say he hasn't been greatly influenced by jimi, just that IMO he seeks to do his own thing, be original with it...even in his recent use of the 'whammy' bar, prince is using it his own way and staying away from hendrix-ism or van halen-isms or vai-isms...I think that in general Prince stays away from '-isms' and really channels his vast influences through his own magic filter...thats why this debate is extremely difficult and perhaps even mostly useless: clearly prince was also greatly influenced by sly and james, perhaps even more so than by jimi, yet can anyone point to more than a handful of songs - - in a catalogue of literally THOUSANDS! - - where one might plausibly say, 'hey man prince tryin to sound just like sly'? I think prince passed the originality meter somewhere back in 1977 or 78 and since has only solidified his place in the pantheon of all time originals/greats...I mean, even though yes I've helped fan the flames here with a couple long posts of my own, what are we going to argue next? that prince ripped off beethoven cause he wore the same frilly shirts and copped the same hairstyle in the mid-80's?? who's the greater pianist prince or bela bartok b/c prince plays a few bartok-ian tone-row runs every now and again? prince vs. duke ellington b/c of the shear volume of work, longevity and cultural significance? just as I personally don't believe prince to be more musically or culturally significant than jimi hendrix, prince isn't likely to win many battles with ellington, bartok, beethoveen or many other giants of art and music with me either. But I tell ya I'd much rather dance to housequake than 'take the a train' and I'd much rather make love to the scandalous sex suite than to 'moonlight sonata opus IV (or whatever it is)'...prince is a BAAAADDD man and one of the alltime greats!!

and now back to the madness at hand LOL: I do agree with thebanishedone that I can hear a more explicit jimi influence in a few songs/performances such as: Witness for the Prosecution (although because the playing is so atypical of prince I've often wondered if this might actually be Miko playing lead guitar), Had U (although the playing so atypical of prince I've wondered if it this might actually be sonny t. playing lead guitar), same december, purple rain on 'live from syracuse', etc..but I myself chalk this up to the fact that unless you've lived under a rock or just landed here from krypton if you're a guitarist of the last 30yrs you've been influenced by hendrix... many of his techniques and styles have been adopted into the everyday lexicon of 'standard' rock/pop guitar playing...

I'm just glad that so many people are affected enough by Hendrix that they have to defend Prince against Hendrix. Cuz baby, let me tell ya'll, this wasn't the first time this has crossed ya'll mind. That's evident in the posts. People are passionate about this shit here.

I haven't read all these replies in this long thread. I tried reading all of them the last time there was a "Prince vs. Jimi" thread and the computer kept throwing up messages asking me if I wanted to sign out because no movement had taken place on the computer for so long.

BlaqueKnight said:

that's a good method.

jill jones prince didn't practise his guitar during filming of rave 2000 dvd.
he was sloppy and sterille and best solo from that night was by mike scott.
but if you listen to joy in repetition live from one nite alone aftershow you'll hear a person who definetly practise guitar.
for example in joy in repetition he plays fast licks that are much cleaner and faster then anything on rave 2000 dvd.

on rave dvd during american woman prince played one faster lick but it was sloppy,that same lick he played on joy in repetition but much faster and precise.

on shhh hong kong rock he played ascedental run that is faster then anything he ever play.it's almost steve vai like.

he couldn't pull that off during rave period.
if you dont belive me watch rave dvd after that go and watch musicology in los angeles dvd.
change in his playing is so big like it's not the same player.
and im glad he practise guitar.

i think guitar excites prince still.
so i stay behind my statmewnt that the only period prince didnt practise guitar was during rave into 2000.

he started practising again little before he recorded habibi.

blaq knight i respect you and many times i agreed with your opinion.
but somehow i get impression that you often like to put prince down in favour of other players.
i know that there are a lot of orgers who don't know a bit of guitar playing asnd they say prince is the best.but that doesnt mean they are ignorant.
maybe they like his vibrato or feeling the best.
the only to get the picture how good prince is on guitar is to try to pick up his guitar solo by ear which is not that easy task.
even his earlier solos had fucked up parts.

when doves cry solo at the end have
rhytmicly hard part,wendy never learn to play it properly.

but back to what you said how many
players are influanced by prince and how many by jimi,you got to realise one thing.
its very hip to like jimi hendrix.i bet many ppl dont like him and dont understand him but they are affraid to say that they dont like him because they wouldnt be cool.

its also popular to not like prince because of his looks .people just recently realised that prince is great player,
after rnr hall of fame,snl,superbowl .
but one day prince will be praised so much ,
but his stocking will raise when he dies,every artist gets more attention after death.
by the way jimi's best work is on band of gypsies album.
he never played that good before or after.

skywalker said:

Becuase "P Control" is hot garbage compared to everything in Jimi's catalog. Hell, it's hot garbage to a lot of the stuff in Prince's own catalog. And the fact that you picked that out the numerous other Prince songs to make a comparison to Jimi to me negates all the dissecting and debating you did for the last three days or so.

Not tyring to be mean or anyting but come on.

thebanishedone said:

That's very condescending of you to try to reduce my opinions on Jimi & Prince based on such superficialities. The best guitar players in the world; your heroes' heroes all hail Jimi. Now why don't they hold Prince in the same light on guitar? Because he's NOT. On Prince.org Prince is king but in the real world its Jimi. Fool yourselves if you want to but its the truth. Jimi changed the game for guitarists everywhere. Prince hasn't. All the wishing in the world is NEVER going to change that. Deal with it.
In my mind, there is no comparison. Prince has added very little if anything to guitar playing. You all know it. He's a good guitarist, not an innovator on guitar. Not a guitar virtuoso. It is what it is.

BlaqueKnight said:

That's great except for that is not what anyone is even debating about.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

You entirely missed the point. Your painfully biased opinion of Pussy Control still does not negate that fact that Jimi never did anything stylewise that was close to that song, nor several other songs that Prince has done.

The point wasn't about quality, because no one can prove something so subjective, the debate was about who has a greater range in musical styles. Again, you may not like Pussy Control and you may prefer everything that Jimi ever did, but it doesn't mean that his range of musical styles was broader than Prince's because it wasn't. That's all. And I wouldn't say you were mean, just crude in expressing your opinion. Thanks.

blaqknight i dont want to reduce your opinion,opinions are like assholes everybody got one.
me,you,everybody else ,
it's alright.
but you sound like you are glad that prince is not the best.


you said: Jimi changed the game for guitarists everywhere.
Prince hasn't. All the wishing in the world is NEVER going to change that. Deal with it.

i don't mind,i dont wish anything.
i am so glad jimi hendrix is considerd to be the best and ultimate guitar player,
to be a sinonime for electric guitar.

Jimi Hendrix took guitar to another level.
pete towsand from Who said:before Jimi when youR GUITAR HAD
FEEDBACK IT WAS A PROBLEM.

Jimi chalenged guitar on a whole new level ,
his playing was most of the time so beutiful like it was out of this world(see band of gypsies).
even on his bad night he was great(ISLE OF WHITE).but that is nothing new to people.

I don't want Prince to be best this best that,
we only make this discussions for fun.
if everybody liked Prince i probably wouldnt.
it's good to be diffrent to have your opinion.

Prince didnt bring inovation to the guitar,
maybe he didn't try,maybe because he didn't need to.
But prince by chalenginghimself and playing from the heart
improved some elements of Jimi Hendrix guitar style because prince's guitar leads are cleaner and maybe better in rhythm department.

although jimi was excelent rhythm player,
i find prince to be better rhythm guitar player.

but then again there must be no comaration because they are just like compering great cars from diffrent era.
more recent car have better peformance because it's new but older car had their great sides at the time they were made.
so we can aLL AGREE THAT JIMI AND PRINCE BOTH HAVE GREAT GUITAR SOLOS AND WE CAN LISTEN TO THEM ANND ENJOY THEM...WITHOUT WORING WHO IS BETTER...\AMEN

skywalker said:

Don't be a smartass. It's easy to talk tough behind a keyboard. If you're gonna discuss, act like an adult.