ThreadBare said:

sharonbell said:

Jimi Hendrix :

Songwriting
Better guitarist
Bigger stage presence
Originator
First black artist to clearly crossover black and white music.
Bigger impact in music culture


It's hard to compare Jimi to Prince since Prince completely copied Jimi Hendrix style.
Without Jimi Hendrix, Prince would have been drastically different .
[Edited 3/19/07 4:19am]

Jimi is the weaker songwriter and less varied when compared to Prince.



I 'll give you this since Jimi will always get props for being 1st, but this is a very subjective claim. Fact is Prince has been playing guitar for nearly twice as long as Jimi did. That much time playing has to add up.






Than Prince? Please. Jimi is nowhere near the showman that Prince is/was. Sure, Jimi is a God onstage with a guitar. Take that guitar from Jimi and what do you have? Not much. Take the guitar from Prince and he still has about a dozen ways to kick your ass onstage.


As is Prince. So what?





So wrong. Chuck Berry, Little Richard, were before Jimi. Compare James Brown's mainstream chart success to Jimi's.



According to most white middle aged men






Sure, Prince was influenced by Jimi. Who wasn't? However, to say that Prince completely copied Jimi is very inaccurate. Prince's guitar style is more like Santana. Did Prince copying his dancing from Jimi? Oh wait Jimi didn't dance. Did Prince copy his vocal style from Jimi? No, Jimi ain't got a voice that can sing like Prince. Here is a list of other things that Prince didn't get from Jimi. His style of dress since 1986 onwards. His drumming, piano, and songwriting. The splits. The stage presence. The mic stand tricks. His make up. The horns in his music. The synths in his music. Etc. and so on.....Fact is Prince borrowed a bit from all of his influences and made it his own. He didn't "completely copy Jimi".



As would every guitar player. Fact is, Prince isn't just a "guitar player". He has many influences and, as I said before, his guitar is more influenced by Santana.
[Edited 3/19/07 17:09pm]

Prince has an unfair advantage in that, he's still alive.

skywalker said:

great job! you pretty much took the words right out of alot of peoples mouths! Kudos to you!

skywalker said:

Nice!

2 Black men changed music.

Sorry but this is a non-issue. Jimi wins hands down. And I love Prince.

Go listen to Jimi's first solo album and compare it to the other music that was out during that era and then go listen to Prince's first album and compare it to everything that was out in that era. Then come back and answer your own question.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

Will do, but that's going to take a day or so.

fathermcmeekle said:

Then I suggest you log off the org now.

Ifsixwuz9 said:

Shit, Jimi was 25 when his first album came out. Compare Jimi's career when he was 25 to Prince's when Prince was 25. See? It's all about perspective. Think about your little equation and add that in there. Compare Prince at 25 to Jimi at 25 and you'll have a more fair argument.

[Edited 3/19/07 17:07pm]

skywalker said:

Prince's was also sporting a big ass afro at a much younger age than Jimi, too.

skywalker said:

So? Prince was 20 when his first album came out. Jimi was 25 when his came out. There was a five year age difference on the release of their debut albums. Big deal.

The point I was making is that Jimi's first album is a rock & roll classic. Prince's first album (while I love it cause I was a pre-teen when it came out) does not campare in innovation. It was cool and all, but it will not go down in history as one of the all time great debut albums. Period.

Do not start this comparing where they were during their career peaks cause that will not fly with me on this subject. You can make that lame argument with D'Angelo or Andre 3000 or somebody like that but not Jimi.

Illustrator said:

Sssshhhhh!

I'm listening to Universal Soldier by Donovan.

jimi didn't have an ejaculator connected to his guitar.

PEJ said:

It's too bad that Prince & Jimi weren't contemparies.
They coulda teamed up on stage,
& P coulda used his ejaculator to put out the fire on Jimi's guitar.

Illustrator said:

It is a big deal because your comparison is a bit faulty. All things being equal you should compare them at the same age. What the hell was Jimi doing when he was 20? The 5 year age difference is huge for Prince. Again, your comparsion is faulty. Compare their careers when they were both 25.



Again, this is a skewed comparsion. Jimi had a great debut at 25. By the time Prince was 25 he had 5 albums under his belt-3 of which were classics. Innovation? Classic albums? Dirty Mind, Controversy, 1999-all by age 25. Enough said.



Sure I can. Jimi's 1st album came out when he was 25. It was genius. Again, Prince had released 3 genius albums by the time he was Jimi's age. What's your point? Jimi had a HUGE debut in his mid 20's. Prince ruled the music world in his mid 20's. What are you saying? That Jimi's debut was better than Prince's? Sure it was. However, Jimi at age 25 couldn't fuck with Prince at age 25. That's all.
[Edited 3/19/07 18:05pm]

skywalker said:

You can try to dice this up anyway you want and strum up as many arguments as you want. But the fact still remains... Jimi's debut album is a rock & roll classic. It is innovative. Prince's debut album (while very good) is not. Period.

I don't give a damn what P did five years after that, I don't care how many more records he sold with Purple Rain. I am not comparing them at age 25 because they weren't at their commercial peaks at the same time. I am saying plain and simple Jimi's debut out the box was innovative. It set the standard to which his peers were trying to copy and compete with. P's debut was not. It took Prince several more years before he truly came into his own.

And furthermore Jimi did not have videos and a freaking movie to give his career a commercial push.

And your point is what? I don't understand what comparison you are trying to draw between the two of them. You are one this high horse about Jimi's debut and I say-so what? Who cares? Yeah I get it. Jimi's debut was better than Prince's debut. Prince was 20 when he released his 1st album. Michael Jackson was not even a teenager when his group debuted with a classic album--so what? Again, I fail to see the comparsion or point you are trying to make.


Right, but Prince came into his own before Hendrix did. Dirty Mind came out when Prince was 22. Hendrix hadn't even released and album by that age. Again, I fail to see how Jimi having a stellar debut at the age of 25 somehow trumps Prince when Prince had accomplished so much more at the same age.


Oh boo hoo. Prince didn't have Woodstock or the hippies and drugs of the 60's to support him. Who cares?

Again, all things being equal, Jimi is a bigger guitar legend than Prince. Jimi will always be viewed as being the ultimate guitar guy above everyone. However, he pales in comparison to Prince in most other areas in terms of overall musicianship, performance, and output. Jimi released his 1st album at the age of 25, Prince damn near ruled the music world at that age. Even if Henrix hadn't died, Prince still had Jimi outpaced careerwise.


[Edited 3/19/07 18:41pm]

skywalker said:

Don't forget what music was in the 60's. Do you remember what music was in the late 60's ? Jimi in this era was[b] a better and innovative songwriter compared to Prince. From this point of view, Jimi was better.

skywalker said:

I 'll give you this since Jimi will always get props for being 1st, but this is a very subjective claim. Fact is Prince has been playing guitar for nearly twice as long as Jimi did. That much time playing has to add up.

I'm sorry but, he's a better guitarist not only for being the 1st, he still better than Prince. And it's pretty funny to say this is subjectve since all your arguments are subjective.

Fact is Jimi is better, and Jimi in his era was considered as the best. We cannot say the same for Prince.

skywalker said:

Than Prince? Please. Jimi is nowhere near the showman that Prince is/was. Sure, Jimi is a God onstage with a guitar. Take that guitar from Jimi and what do you have? Not much. Take the guitar from Prince and he still has about a dozen ways to kick your ass onstage.

Jimi is god on stage and he would put Prince to shame. And you know it. And instead of Prince, Jimi wasn't influenced by artists like James Brown, Sly or George Clinton.


Again, I would like to see Prince without the influences of all the biggest acts of the late 60's and 70's . Without the inflences of Jimi, L.Richard, James Brown.

I would love to see Prince only with the same influences that Jimi has had. He would not be the same.

skywalker said:

Originator

As is Prince. So what?

What Prince has originated ???

skywalker said:

So wrong. Chuck Berry, Little Richard, were before Jimi. Compare James Brown's mainstream chart success to Jimi's.

You didn't understand what I've said.
I've said [b]to crossover black and white music. Chuck Berry an Little were doing black music. Jimi music was clearly doing a music more mixed. His music was black AND white. And nor Little Richard neither Chuck Berry get the mainstream success of Jimi.

skywalker said:

Wrong, according to black people as well. His impact and influence was much bigger. And we still can see it nowdays. There was before and after Jimi. I don't think we can say the same for Prince. After Jimi, everybody wants to be a guitar player. He will always be remembered as the guitar god. Prince don't even come close. Jimi is till the gutar god, to black and white audience, not Prince.

skywalker said:

Wrong, on stage Prince clearly impersonates Jimi. And he was oftenly criticised for that. The attitude, the gesture, the sexual manners come from Jimi. . Again, without Jimi, Prince isn't not the same.

skywalker said:

Nope, since Prince copied his dancing from James Brown, just like TTD, MC Hammer or Michael Jackson.
This argument is meaningless. Again, Jimi didn't grow up with James Brown so don't expect him to dance like James Brown.
Would have Prince develop his dancing skills if James Brown wasn't there ?? .

skywalker said:

First of all. You right he didn't "completely copy" Jimi. He MOSTLY copied Jimi. Prince stole so many things from Jimi. He stole the fav color of Jimi.

Purple Haze =>Purple Rain

He completely stole the style of dress of Jimi (and L.Richard).

He stole the stage presence of Jimi. The make up of Jimi, the hair style of Jimi etc...

It's so obvious that it's not even funny.

skywalker said:

Fact is Jimi wasn't just a guitar player. And you don't seem to understand it.
The way you refuse to admit the strong influence of Jimi is ridiculous. Prince's main influence was Jimi (with L.Richard and James Brown). And without Jimi, Prince would be totally different.

[b]
The 60's was an era of GREAT songwriters!!!! Dylan? The Beatles? The Doors? Fact is Hendrix was THE GUITAR GOD and an okay songwriter. He has not the depth, not width of Prince when it comes to songwriting. Furthermore, Hendrix wasn't a great songwriter by 1960's standards either.


You just don't know much about Prince if you think he copied mostly from Jimi. Any solid Prince fan knows Prince was influenced way more by James, and Sly than Jimi. You see a brother with a guitar and you say "Jimi". Fact is, Prince is more like Santana as a guitarist.




Omigod? Really? Jimi had a song with the title Purple in it. Yes, we know. He was NEVER associated with the color Purple like Prince is. One of Jimi's biggest songs ever is a Dylan tune--so what?



Sure in the Purple Rain era. Compare what Prince is wearing post 1985 to Jimi. When did Jimi wear zoot suits? Do rags? Pajamas? Chain masks? Straightened slick back hair? Skin tight shiny bodysuits? I must of missed when Jimi wore those assless pants. As far as make up goes..Jimi may hoave worn make up, but he never rocked it out slathered on 1980's style like Prince did.





The stage presence? You mean playing guitar and making faces? Sorry, Jimi didn't invent that. Again, Prince's onstage actions owe a lot more to James Brown, Little Richard, and Sly Stone than they do to Jimi.




It is? So when Prince is playing piano, drums, or dancing he owes that all to copying Jimi? Have you even seen a Prince concert?




I don't deny the influence. However, I disagree with you saying "Prince completely copies Jimi" with everything he does. Jimi IS NOT Prince's strongest influence. Hell, Prince has done entire tours where he mostly DOESN'T play guitar.

Jimi wasn't just a guitar player, but he didn't influence people with his drumming, dancing, or ability to sing and play piano. The fact is Prince has copied Jimi stylewise, but not only Jimi as you are claiming.

Again, Jimi is NOT Prince's main influence. Prince has said as much himself. Again, I know you totally love Hendrix, and well you should, however your lack of knowledge about Prince's influence is staggering and heavily biased. Then again, you are the guy who claimed Jimi was the 1st black crossover artist and omitted Ray Charles, Little Richard, etc.



Yes, without Jimi Prince would be different-what guitar player wouldn't be? However Jimi is not Prince's main influence. When it comes to guitar, sure as is Santana. However, Prince's style, overall musicianship, songwriting, and stageshow are all waaaaay to varied to be mostly attributed to him copying Jimi. I think you are confusing Prince with Lenny Kravitz.

Bottom line: Yes, Prince borrowed from Jimi. But to claim that Prince's "completely copied" Jimi, or that Jimi was Prince's MAIN influence is to state that you don't know much about Prince.
[Edited 3/19/07 20:35pm]

Sure, Prove to me that Jimi is better on guitar than Prince, or Santana, or Clapton. I'm not saying he isn't just that we could run in circles over preference of sound.


The better and best at what? The best of the 60's? I have a lot of Beatles fans who want to slap you. Stones fans too. Tell me how many top 10 hits Jimi wrote? How many academy awards did Jimi win? What are you using for comparison or criteria for "best"? Guitarist. No shit. That's not what I am arguing.



1. Don't act like Jimi didn't have influences and critique Prince because he does.
2. You never answered my question: Take away Jimi's guitar onstage and what is he gonna do? Again, Prince has about 2 dozen other ways to kick ass onstage. So spare me with the "Jimi puts Prince to shame" crap. Jimi is regarded a the best guitar player ever-----he couldn't bring it onstage like Prince can. He doesn't have as many tools. Hell, James Brown would kick Jimi's ass onstage let alone Prince. Prince doesn't rely only on his guitar to put on a legendary show.



Whatever...where would Jimi be without his influences--he didn't just emerge as a guitar god from nothing. He learned the blues somehow.

.

Fine. Problem is that we don't live in a fantasy world with time machines and a non linear way of life. I'd like to see Jimi dance...he didn't 'nuff said.






It's called the Minneapolis sound. Look it up, look up Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis--- then listen to Janet JacksonTimberlakes new album, listen to Pharell, the neptunes, Andre 3000, timbaland,etc.I am an English teacher by trade, but history is fun right?





[b]Bullshit, Jimi was playing blues. And if we are attaching skin colors to music, you can call it "black music". Look up Little Richard's mainstream chart success, and compare it to Jimi's. Look up Ray Charles, look up James Brown.







When did I ever say Prince was THE guitar god? Never. Listen, I totally understand Jimi's massive shifting of pop music / rock and roll. Jimi's influence was on the guitar. Prince isn't just a guitar player so Jimi cannot be his only or main influence.








Jimi wasn't half a sexual as Prince was. Only early on in his career did accused of "impersonating Jimi". However, that's what people say when a brotha plays guitar. Fact is, anyone who knows a lot about Prince on guitar knows that Santana is who he sounds like.




You said Prince completely copies Jimi and now your are retreating from that. Bottom Line: Jimi didn't dance. I don't care if James Brown didn't teach him--Jimi wasn't as varied in his talents as Prince. Better on guitar for sure, but Jimi does not have as many weapons musically or onstage as Prince doesn. As far as Jimi not having anyone to be influenced by--who taught James to dance? If Jimi could have danced he would have.
[Edited 3/19/07 21:01pm]
[Edited 3/19/07 21:30pm]

I wish I could find that quote Prince made in 1985 during his MTV interview about Hendrix. IMO that sums it all up.

IMO, there shouldn't be much of a debate as pertains to guitar playing; prince shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as jimi hendrix, or even santana for that matter. And thats not to knock prince's talent or potential. he simply doesn't have the body of guitar work that would IMO support any assertion that he possesses or has possessed a distinctive or influential guitar style.

IMO prince is a great guitar stylist, which is quite different than being a great player, IMO. segovia was an awesome and profoundly influential guitar player; wes montgomery, charlie christian, george benson, jimi hendrix, allan holdsworth, to name but a choice few, are other guitar standard bearers IMO. prince's playing reflects bits and influences of many of these players and the styles they popularized. however, he has not added anything of substance (and thats putting it kindly) to the body of knowledge of the instrument.

although I personally believe prince to be the best rhythm guitarist of his generation, his musical peak took place in an era where rhythm guitar was featured less and less in popular r&b. if one goes back to just before prince came on the scene in the late '70's you could hear INCREDIBLE r&b rhythm guitar playing on loads of the day's 'hits'. had prince come up in that environment, or perhaps in the '60s-early 70s alongside jimi, clapton, mclaughlin, dimeola et al, it seems to me he would have been considered a fine rock/r&b guitarist, certainly worthy of praise and 'guitar god' status...but I cannot imagine discerning fans comparing him favorable with the mindblowing cultural and social phenomenom that was jimi hendrix...they'd a been comparing prince to second tier players (all of them great and incredible and worthy or great praise IMO) such as jimmy page or perhaps al mckay or somesuch...

prince possesses such awesome talent; there's no telling how good an instrumentalist he could be were he to concentrate his energies on any one of his primary instruments. however being considered a great instrumentalist doesn't seem to be a primary motivation for prince so I'd say we'll probably never know how good he could be.

as pertains performing and songwriting, I just cannot wrap my mind around the idea that prince - - as charismatic and engaging and phenonmenal a performer as he is - - could ever on his best night reach peaks that jimi regularly hit everynight. please somebody dare make an argument that prince has EVER in any concert reached a peak like jimi does on 'who knows' or 'machine gun' or at woodstock, at the isle of wight and on and on....these are transcendent performances by a visitor from another consciousness standing head and shoulders above virtually everyone in an era where virtually every musician played every note like it might be their last...prince certainly is a throwback to that era in many respects, which is perhaps why he stands in such stark contrast against others in his own era. but jimi, man jimi had his s**t together, yo! ALL his s**t...

Lastly, songwriting prowess is certainly a subjective subject. Of course all of this debate is subjective, but perhaps none more so than songwriting. prince's songwriting style cannot be seen as anything more than derivative of the style's popular in his era. he is (actually he WAS cause he aint showed me he can write a great song in a long time) an adept pop songwriter. I think one could argue that jimi's songwriting style, particularly his lyric style was greatly derivative as well...however, I would argue that its difficult to compare the two b/c of the vast differences in their subject matter. actually, I think this is the only area where its even remotely fair to compare prince and jimi; in the arena where both were attempting to reach a broad audience through their songwriting, ie songs like 'fire' or 'crosstown traffic' for hendrix and more hits than could be mentioned for prince...prince certainly knows who to write a pop 'hit' when he wants to. but I triple dare him to write a song as lyrically complex or self reflective as 'axis bold as love' or 'belly button window' by jimi...

I thought I was just gonna add a bit to the dialogue and ended up writing a book - - sorry...I'm passionate about both of these great, great geniuses...but in the order of genuises, if there is one, I'd have to tip my hat to hendrix on pretty much all counts...prince can saang mo betta though, I'll grant him that!

This thread makes me wanna bring some Hendrix to work today. Maybe "South Saturn Delta" and "Winterland"...

chocolate1 said:

But true

these comparison threads are funny

Let's just agree that both of them are/were brilliant in their own way

Santana himself has called Prince the most underrated guitarist ever. I agree that Prince has not added anything new to rock guitar playing, but he is genius in areas that Santana and Hendrix most definitely are not. You seem fine on not giving Prince credit for being a great guitar player, but you have no problem handing credit to Jimi for being a wonderful showman, which he was but only in terms of playing guitar.



Again, Prince cannot run with Jimi on guitar influence, but he has Hendrix beat in every other area of musicianship and performance. Deal with it. Hendrix has not the width or breadth of Prince's body of work.




Whatever. Anyone who suggests that Hendrix hit the highest peaks in music every night and that Prince hasn't had trancendent performances in concert has not watched nearly enough performances from either of these two. In the end, it basically boils down to taste and or drug usage. Jimi wasn't even close to being the best all around onstage performer of his era. He couldn't touch with James Brown onstage performancewise and, as far as "trancendent perormances by a visitor from another conciousness" goes--Jimi was lucky that Jim Morrison wasn't at Woodstock. Jimi hendrix- Best guitarist ever? yes. Best all around musician/performer ever? Nope.



.

Jimi has " all his shit together"??? Bold claim for a guitar god who died choking on his own puke after only 2 years of his debut album.




IE Basically, Prince is a better song writer but you prefer Jimi's lyrics. The lyrics of these two songs you mentioned is typical trippy hippie talk of the late 60's. Nothing outstanding about them considering the era that they are from. A song from the late 60's that is non linear talking about rainbows, war, oranges, and yellow? Very common.



No doubt they are both geniuses. However, I maintain that Hendrix the the alpha and omega of guitar, but to claim that he is a genius of anything else musically is pushing it. I am not saying that he wasn't great, but he was only the best guitarist of his era, not the best lyricist, and certainly not the best all around stage performer.
[Edited 3/20/07 7:14am]