vainandy said:

But that's how he is. He's a risk-taker. But back then it was all good to me, and I was down for whatever he was getting into. "Purple Rain" is still his magnum opus anyways. He was trying to break into the Rock market, and he did successfully. But if he kept the same thing going, it would've sounded rote and stale. But he did bring the Funk back with the Parade tour, so you can't be too mad, now can you?

ATWIAD sounded strange 2 people who knew 1999 and Purple Rain.
I know a lot of people were dissapointed at the time,
he was lucky Raspberry Beret and Pop Life were hits.
Indeed,Parade would have been a better follow up 2 PR.
The album was released 2 soon,Purple mania was still going on!

the name change- turned him into a joke,especially following the huge contract he willingly signed with Warner Bros. Even today, people are like "what is he calling himself now?

Graffiti Bridge movie- just a mess. To call that debacle a sequal to "Purple Rain" was an embarrassment. Not much better than a high school production. The soundtrack was not much better. "The latest fashion" Ugh.

the rap era of the early 90's- those records have not aged well at all and produced the worse music Prince ever released. "Jughead" anyone?

the handling of "The Gold Experiece"- one ofhis best albums got jerked around and instead of being released in a timely fashion got needlessly delayed. By the time it was released, the buzz was gone and the cd had a short shelf life on the charts.

making Emancipation a 3 cd set- way, way too much filler on that cd. Would have made a good double album and a great single cd.

* letting kirk johnson get ANYWHERE near drums or a drum machine

* larry graham

* betcha... as the lead single from emancipation

* promoting tamar instead of 3121

* dumb ass name change foolishness

* thinking he could be his own manager, hence no real direction since 1986/87

• Not singing in We Are The World
• Disbanding the Revolution
• Shelving the Black Album
• Graffiti Bridge (the movie)
• and the "Slave"/WB feud
• All NPG side work
• Letting Larry Graham into his inner circle
• Not promoting 3121

But IMO the worst decision . . . putting rap into his music.

ychismb said:

I don't think 1-800-New-Funk was a mistake. Love Sign is one of his best songs from the mid 90s.

ychismb said:

I thought the lollipop incident was cool.

There are too many to count. Where do I begin?

-Not releasing The Beautiful Ones as a single

-As great an album as it is, ATWIAD should not have been released after Purple Rain

-Releasing Mountains as the 2nd single. Should have been Girls and Boys

-Not touring with SOTT and not releasing more singles off of SOTT like Adore, Strange Relationship and Hot Thing

-Not releasing The Black Album when it was supposed to come out.

-Grafitti Bridge - the movie

-Tony M and The Game Boyz

-Not spending enough time promoting

-The name change and putting "Slave" on his face

-The WB feud and him not being honest about it.

-Not releasing The Gold Experience when it should have been released and not promoting it properly when it was released

-Not releasing the video to " Hate U

-Making Emancipation a 3 CD set when it should have been 1

-Kirky J

-Larry Graham

-Newpower Soul and Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic

-1999 The New Masters

-Not releasing A Million Days from Musicology

-Not promoting 3121

-Releasing Te Amo Corazon as the 1st single while not releasing Love, which should have been the 1st single

-Tamar

-Not having something like a CD or a tour ready after the Super Bowl performance

-I've mentioned certain songs but he's done a shit job in releasing singles as a whole. There are so many songs that should have been singles off of every album since Parade. It's pathetic

-Him not having a manager and him trying to be everything to his career.

-Not making quality videos to most of the songs he did release
[Edited 3/8/07 19:58pm]

"Around the World in a Day" was not a bad decision. He didn't give people what they expected. That is a good thing. He challenged his fan to listen to new sounds.

-Symbolina Fiasco

-Larry Graham, somebody push him off the Watchtower

-The Rainbow Children

-Tony M., Kirk J., Damon D.

-Releasing SOTT as the first single and following it up with If I Was Your Girlfriend

-His bargain basement looking videos

And I personally was cool with ATWIAD. The man's all over the place, just enjoy it.

Purplestar88 said:

I agree. It also secured his credibility with the critics as an risk-taker, innovator, etc. It's also often quoted as the beginning of him establishing a "sophisticated" hard-core fan base- US! Without a doubt, we have kept him afloat through the "tough" years- and had he not made all the mistakes people are talking about up here- he may have always been playing to the masses and the fan-base that's here now- might not exist. When you read through stuff on this site, it becomes pretty apparent that much of the hard-core fan base doesn't like the stuff he did to be "popular" as much as the rest. That being said, I think now, IMHO, the hard core base is ready to see him reclaim the top. And we will all be able to say we were here all along! just a thought....

In order:

ATWIAD

Under The Cherry Moon in B&W

GB movie

Name change and WB battles

Emancipation being 3 discs/hours

Making Lovesexy one track on the CD.

I don't understand all the hate for ATWIAD. Is it that you actually hate the album? Or is it really because it was a bad decision following Purple Rain?

This one is so obvious there is no contest--it's the elephant in the middle of the room:

1) Firing his managers and lawyers
2) and then signing that stupid new contract with WB, that would "potentially" be worth millions--from this we get writing "slave" on his cheek, renaming himself 0-->, and all the other ways he waged open warfare with his record company, and all the energy and time he wasted doing the same.
[Edited 3/8/07 23:03pm]

"So what? People change. I know he's all about the funk, but how long can you keep that up? He got sick of that sound and wanted to explore new and different sounds. I mean, The Beatles are one of his influences after all. And the album isn't bad at the end of the day. And it was way ahead of everything else that was happening in Soul music at that time. That's what made Prince stand apart from the rest.

Jimi had a hard time with this too when he formed the Experience. He was trying to bring some of the sexy, psychedelic sounds to Rock and Soul audiences. But at that time it pretty much went over the Soul crowds heads. I think that's why he formed the Band of Gypsys a few years later.[/quote]


I TOTALLY agree. When, when, oh when??? has this man ever been predictable? As said previously, he has not always chosen the easy path. But he has always followed his spirit-his sould-his passion. And a good comparison with Jimi.

Hands down biggest mistake was changing his name to the Symbol.

Octavius said:

Yup, yup, yup.

Actually, I think the last one was his biggest mistake artistically- up there with the alleged Ecstacy incident involving Ingrid frigging Chavez.

Commercially, the name-change foolishness was just silly. I remember seeing his "speech" at the Brits around when he had Slave scrawled on his face, and he just came across as an ungrateful little shit. He knew what he was getting into with WB when he signed on the dotted line - he could have dealt with it a lot better.

As for Kirky J - well, anybody who's seen my posts on these boards will know that I'll be on the ball whenever an opportunity to rip this talentless twat to shreds comes up!

In chronological order:

• Releasing ATWIAD was a bad move commercially BUT was genius artistically
• Not singing in We Are The World
• Releasing Under The Cherry Moon as his 2nd film
• Not touring North America with SOTT
• Naked cover for Lovesexy (plus should have used a few more Black Album trax, one side black and one side lovesexy)
• Sacking Stephen Fargnoli as manager
• Graffiti Bridge (the movie)
• Letting Tony M rap on the albums (should have kept it to B-sides)
• Name change/Slave/WB feud
• Not making Come a stronger album and releasing it in 93 instead of The Hits
• Not releasing TGE in 1994
• Not making C&D a stronger album
• Not editing Emancipation down to a v.strong double
• Letting Larry Graham into his inner circle
• Not making RUTJF a stronger album (include some High tracks)
• Not promoting 3121

However, without doubt the most damaging thing he did to his career was the name change (despite his reasons most people simply didn't get it and it made him look stupid).
[Edited 3/9/07 3:04am]
[Edited 3/9/07 3:07am]

VelvetJ said:

Of all the things he has done you choose not singing "house quake" at the MTV award show?????

***Not bringing the 'SOTT' tour to the US---As far as most fans and critics are concerned,this album was the real follow-up to 'Purple Rain'.In 1987,these songs were all over the radio.Forget about the three Top 10 hits,even the non-singles got alot of attention and airplay.There was alot of momentum with this album.It was a huge mistake not to tour with this album.Yes,he gave us the concert film but that's not quite the same thing.

***The name change---Whatever his true reasons were,it was a public relations disaster.It really damaged his career in the 90s.

***Around The World In A Day---I know I'm gonna take alot of heat for saying this,but I think this was a weak follow-up to 'Purple Rain'.The songs are too slow and where is the funk?! Many people were baffled by this album.Just a few years earlier,he was putting out bold,edgy singles like "Controversy" and now he's putting out safe,"cute" singles like "Raspberry Beret"?! The type of song that grandmothers could sing along to??

***Posing nude on the cover of 'Lovesexy'---Personally,I didn't have a problem with the cover.Most fans understood what he was trying to do.The cover is supposed to represent a spiritual rebirth.However,the general public thought he was nuts.They took one look at the cover and rolled their eyes in disgust.It's a shame because the music on the album is fantastic.I was mad at him for doing something that would prevent the album from reaching a wide audience.

***'Graffiti Bridge' movie---Have you guys ever noticed that Prince has a tendency to follow up a good year with a disappointing project the next year? Case in point: in 1989,Prince was on fire.'Batman' was a huge commerical comeback for him.He was back on top of the charts with a Number one album and single ("Batdance").Instead of taking his time to plot his next move,he began 1990 in front of the cameras,filming this turkey of a movie.This film should never have been made.

***Not releasing 'TGE' in the summer of 94---Forget about the weak 'Come' album.He should have kept that in the vaults.Instead,he should have released the superior 'Gold Album' (as it was called back then),with the original tracklist featuring "Days Of Wild","Ripopgodazippa","Interactive","Acknowledge Me",etc.He should have placed "Hide The Bone" on the album as the opening track,released it as the first single and watched the world go crazy.By the time this album was finally released in late 1995,he had taken several great songs off the album and re-recorded most of the songs.

***making Paisley Park Records a "vanity label"---If Prince had done things differently,Paisley Park Records could have been another Motown.He should have stepped aside and hired some skilled people to help him run the label (the way Madonna did with Maverick Records).In addition,by the late 80s,he was signing generic "acts" that had very little to offer (Good Question,Dale Bozzio).I wasn't the least bit surprised when Warners shut the label down in 1994.

halosinner said:

Totally agree.This album should have been released in the summer of 1994 with the original tracklist.Instead,Prince used this album as a bargaining tool in his war with Warners.Remember those flyers that Paisley Park distributed in late 1994,asking fans to write Warners,demanding that it be released? After awhile,I got sick of all the games.Many fans made their own bootleg copies.By the time the album was officially released,many of us were already familar with all the songs."Shy" was the only song that I had not already heard.

shaedove99 said:

Back in the 80s,I was always really excited to get a new Prince album.But in retrospect,it was probably a mistake to release those albums so soon.I think 'ATWIAD' was released when 'Purple Rain' was still on the charts! As the 80s wore on,it became less of an "event" when he released new albums.

NWF said:

Yes,ATWIAD was "different and new",but that doesn't mean it was a good album.The songs are too slow."America" is the only track with a fast,solid groove.The other songs put me to sleep.Don't get me wrong,I'm all for experimentation and trying new things.But ATWIAD is simply a weak album imo.

vainandy said:

I think that's the best decision he made during his career, except for the stricktly funk/rock fans. Better than chasing the formula of Purple Rain for the rest of his career.

***releasing the wrong singles---How many times have you seen a fan insist that "Girls And Boys" should have been the second single from 'Parade' instead of "Mountains"?

***firing Jam and Lewis from The Time---this move basically destroyed the best protege band he ever had.As someone else pointed out,he should have hired Jam and Lewis as in-house producers/songwriters for his Paisley Park Records empire.

***the war with Warners---I'm not saying that he was wrong to feud with them.He had some valid points.I just think he handled it the wrong way.He wrote "slave" on his face and turned it into a bitter public feud.Most people thought he was a spoiled,multi-millionaire who whines too much.Throughout most of the 90s,he was behaving like a drama queen.I bet that if he had negotiated with them,privately and in good faith,things would have turned out better for all involved.He might have been able to get his master recordings back,too.

***making 'Emancipation' a 3-CD set---Let's face it,most people don't have the time or patience to sit through 3 hours listening to any album.'Emancipation' is simply too long.I never listen to the entire thing in one sitting.I think if he had removed the filler and trimmed it down to 2 discs,it would have been incredible.A 2-CD set is also easier to sell/promote/market.

***deciding that he could direct his own movies---Prince fired the director of 'Under The Cherry Moon' and decided that he could do it himself.We all know how that turned out In late 1989,it looked as if he had finally come to his senses.He hired 'Purple Rain' director (Al Magnoli) to direct the sequel 'Graffiti Bridge'.However,the two of them got into a bitter argument,Magnoli left and (surprise,surprise) Prince decided to direct 'Graffii Bridge' himself.One of Prince's biggest problems is his ego.He literally thinks that he can do everything on his own.He never likes to get help from skilled people who know what they're doing.

Many of these points I can understand but some are way off the mark.
First- this ideas that Paisley Park could have ever been a motown is completely ridiculous. Prince used the side bands/projects/lable mostly as an avenue to get more of this music/ideas out. If he helped some people along the way great- but for most part it was about creating different types of prince albums not about developing young artists. In fact the only ones that weren't really in this mode that he gave attention to were established stars such as Staples and Clinton...
This leads to the idea that he shouldn't have fired jam and lewis and kept them around for their production skills. Well, we all know he kept them on the payroll and "fired" them to keep them focused on the time. They had a developing talent for producing that would not have worked within Prince's world. They needed to take what they learned from P and move out on their own. Indeed, because of this they didn't harbor much resentment toward Prince- recognizing it was best for both of them- and he in fact kept paying them.
Black Album- someone said it would have shown the younger generation that he was nasty, dirty, funky. Um- Lady Cab Driver, head, sister, Let's pretend were married, darling nikki, soft and wet- all released much earlier and much more freaky, unforced and many times more funky. He had blown the door off funky, explicit and still smart years before the black album. In fact, I think the black album reinforced his legend by halting production and changing directions- also bringing more attention to the legendary vault.
Around the world in a day- it's been stated here but the beauty of this album is it's a big FU to the mainstream world. The opening sequence where he screaming likes he's on crack as the middle eastern (dabuka?) wades in is classic. He knew what he was doing here- he originally planned on not releasing any singles until he received tremendous heat from warners. This was about moving in an artistic direction as opposed to trying to emulate the success of PR..and yes I understand some of the foundation of Around the world is taken from pr but he cleary took that in a less commercial and expected direction.
My opinion of the worst decesion was the name change nonsense. Even though we understand it to be more of a result of this conflict with warners it made him look worse than a loon...it made him laughable. It took many years to looks that stigma.
[Edited 3/9/07 5:28am]

fmarasco said:

But that's exactly why the label failed.To many people,it was simply a "vanity label".Many of the acts were either friends of Prince (T.C Ellis) or sexy girls whom he was sleeping with (Carmen Electra).These people didn't have much to offer (artistically) but because they were close to him,he rewarded them with record deals.In the early 90s,Prince made Gilbert Davision the president of the label.Previously,he was Prince's bodyguard! He had no experience in running a record label.

fmarasco said:

I disagree.I think Jam and Lewis' production skills would have worked extremely well within' Prince's world.When Prince formed Paisley Park Records,his biggest mistake was that he was spreading himself too thin.He was recording his own albums,writing and producing for the other artists on the label,making movies,doing concert gigs,etc.There was no way he could do it all.That's why the Family broke up.Lead singer Paul Peterson was pissed at the lack of attention Prince devoted to the group.Imagine if Jam and Lewis were a part of the label...giving all those amazing songs to the artists signed to the label.They could have taken Jill Jones into the studio and given her the hit-filled album that she desperately needed....they could have given Sheila E. a hot song like "Nasty" long before Janet Jackson got her hands on it....they could have possibly saved bands like Mazarati and The Family from breaking up...supplying them with hit material to keep their careers going strong.

...
[Edited 3/9/07 5:58am]

I think there are many things you could interpret as a bad decision. However, most of them make Prince extraordinary to other artist.

For Example :
ATWIAD directly after PR -> strange idea but musically this was a great idea. He definetly showed that he IS different.
name change -> yeah everybody is still laughing about it but whenever you see "0(+>" you will think of Prince. And since it merges the male and female symbols it is in a way quite sexy .
black album -> might have been a success or his worst album in years but now it is first of all the most bootleged album of all time. Furthermore with this "legend" to it it makes it even more interesting, darker and funkier.

If he never did all these things he is not Prince and definetly as extraordinary as he is.