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Printablepeterfalconer said: JudasLChrist said: Nope. I'm not denying those people jobs of housing , or the right to work with or adopt children or hospital vistation nor am I threatening their lives, harrasing them or working to legislate against them in any way, shape or form. Nothing bigoted about how I roll. What you are trying to do here is OWN the conversation around oppression. Your arguments don't work. Persons who discriminate against non-heterosexuals aren't oppressed. They're just assholes. I'm not naive at all. I've covered more ground in this topic than you have in my life. I can gaurantee you that. I've never heard of anyone or any organization that wasn't religious that claimed people could change their sexual orientation. Or, more descriptively, that cared. [Edited 3/13/07 8:47am] [Edited 3/13/07 8:48am] Bloody hell - after two edits your post is still a garbled nonsense. You really can't see the other side of the argument, can you? I've been very clear, without resorting to insults, mind you. You haven't made a case for "the other side". | |
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JudasLChrist said: peterfalconer said: Bloody hell - after two edits your post is still a garbled nonsense. You really can't see the other side of the argument, can you? I've been very clear, without resorting to insults, mind you. You haven't made a case for "the other side". I don't see any insults there - I was commenting on the weakness of your argument. No, I haven't made an argument in support of people against homosexuality - you've already said several times that "there are no arguments". I was pointing out that such a bigoted and narrowminded viewpoint is difficult to argue against - you have climbed up on your high horse and refuse to even acknowledge that there is "another side". | |
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peterfalconer said: JudasLChrist said: I've been very clear, without resorting to insults, mind you. You haven't made a case for "the other side". I don't see any insults there - I was commenting on the weakness of your argument. No, I haven't made an argument in support of people against homosexuality - you've already said several times that "there are no arguments". I was pointing out that such a bigoted and narrowminded viewpoint is difficult to argue against - you have climbed up on your high horse and refuse to even acknowledge that there is "another side". The "other side" is religiously and politically based. My sexual orientation, who I fuck, isn't up for debate. | |
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JudasLChrist said: The "other side" is religiously and politically based. Again, you really are staggering naive. There are, for example, clear biological arguments why homosexuality is "wrong". | |
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peterfalconer said: JudasLChrist said: The "other side" is religiously and politically based. Again, you really are staggering naive. There are, for example, clear biological arguments why homosexuality is "wrong". Yes, none of which you are (wise-ly) daring to present here. "Wrong" is a value system, scientific evidence does not concoct values of right or wrong. | |
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JudasLChrist said: Yes, none of which you are (wise-ly) daring to present here. Was that meant to sound like a threat, JudasLChrist? Why would it be "wise" of me to refrain from presenting such arguments? Because, of course, whether or not I agree with the arguments (I've not said either way), bigots like you would immediately launch into a tirade of abuse. Such is your narrow-minded way of thinking. "Wrong" is a value system, scientific evidence does not concoct values of right or wrong.
No, you've really gone off the path now and deliberately misunderstanding me. Allow me once again to rephrase: "There are clear biological arguments why homosexuality could be seen as an unsound and unnatural way of existing". | |
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xplnyrslf said: JudasLChrist said: and there it is:
http://www.freetimes.com/story/2261 Sorta makes ya kind of sniffly... [Edited 3/10/07 20:20pm] I think there's sometimes a conflict between dogma, and how you're supposed to behave and one's own principles. It sounds as though Prince may have felt bad about his treatment of old friends and put his religion aside to do what was right. I was thinking the same thing. That happened right around the time he first became heavily involved in the JWs, if I'm not mistaken. There's always this extreme devotion when one first becomes saved or whatever. People seem to want to give their all and drop everything to follow this righteous idea of what it means to be a Christian or a follower of some religion, even friends and family. Then people actually study that religion and mellow out and come back down to earth. Yes, most religions are against homosexuality amongst some other "immoral" behaviors. But none of the religious texts require that you shun those ppl, especially if they are your close friends or family. You can be friends with, associate with, and love someone without condoning their behavior. I think Prince realized this later in life and decided to do the right thing. I graduated bitches!!! 12-19-09   | |
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PurpleRighteous1 said: You can be friends with, associate with, and love someone without condoning their behavior. I think Prince realized this later in life and decided to do the right thing.
Indeed - Jesus himself counted Mary Magdeline, a prostitute, as one of his closest companions. (To the Christians on the board, PLEASE don't take this as an inflammatory or derogatory comment - I'm merely giving an example of how many religions teach forgiveness and tolerance as well as everything else! Hell, I'm getting enough abuse on this thread as it is!  ) | |
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peterfalconer said: PurpleRighteous1 said: You can be friends with, associate with, and love someone without condoning their behavior. I think Prince realized this later in life and decided to do the right thing.
Indeed - Jesus himself counted Mary Magdeline, a prostitute, as one of his closest companions. (To the Christians on the board, PLEASE don't take this as an inflammatory or derogatory comment - I'm merely giving an example of how many religions teach forgiveness and tolerance as well as everything else! Hell, I'm getting enough abuse on this thread as it is! )You haven't gotten ANY abuse on this thread. You don't even know the bible, just received myths, which you blindly accept as it suits your needs and prejudices. Nowhere in the bible does it say that Mary Magdeline was a prostitute. And to answer your question, it would be unwise for you to present your arguements here because they wouldn't hold up to any scrutiny at all. If you and your persecution complex want to take that as 'a threat', so be it. | |
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FruitToAttractBears said: Stymie said: there is indeed something wrong with being homophobic. How in the hell can any Prince fan be homophobic, bigoted or anything else about gay people when the man himself is effeminate, wears high heels and makeup?
 Because he doesn't have sex with men? You don't know that. And even if he says he hasn't, that means nothing. I could say I've never had sex with men either.....and I would be a damn lie. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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Jehovah's Witnesses believe that homosexuality is a sin. This could be interpreted as a 'type' of homophobia or prejudice, but one could argue that is merely disapproval. Jehovah's Witnesses believe fornicators and people who live together before marriage and smokers are sinning against Jehovah God. Homosexuality is just one in a long line of condemned practices.
Prince probably disapproves of the lifestyles of 95% of his audience. That does not necessarily indicate that he is either prejudiced or hateful toward them. Prince is following a rather rigid, literal interpretation of the Bible. Such beliefs come with the territory when you accept the entire Bible as infallibile and divine, as Jehovah's Witnesses do. | |
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Religious people are the biggest group of hypocrites in the world. They are so repressive of everything that their desires are stronger than average. How many times do we hear about preachers etc.., doing wild shit? I once told my best friend, who is a christian, the only thing christianity was good for is that it made sex so good. It's true, it wouldn't be a big deal otherwise. This is coming from someone who grew up in church and lived with a preacher, I'm telling you, they are the wildest freakiest people you will ever know. That macho preacher used to do some awful strange stuff for a straight guy. | |
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PurpleRighteous1 said: xplnyrslf said: I think there's sometimes a conflict between dogma, and how you're supposed to behave and one's own principles. It sounds as though Prince may have felt bad about his treatment of old friends and put his religion aside to do what was right. I was thinking the same thing. That happened right around the time he first became heavily involved in the JWs, if I'm not mistaken. There's always this extreme devotion when one first becomes saved or whatever. People seem to want to give their all and drop everything to follow this righteous idea of what it means to be a Christian or a follower of some religion, even friends and family. Then people actually study that religion and mellow out and come back down to earth. Yes, most religions are against homosexuality amongst some other "immoral" behaviors. But none of the religious texts require that you shun those ppl, especially if they are your close friends or family. You can be friends with, associate with, and love someone without condoning their behavior. I think Prince realized this later in life and decided to do the right thing. Either that or he remembered just how badly W&L could beat the shit out of him if he got on their bad sides.
Seriously though, I think you're probably right. A lot of new converts throw themselves fully into what they think their newfound faith wants of them maybe without fully thinking it through. Prince himself has a habit, as we've seen, of grabbing on like a pitbull to whichever new idea strikes his fancy. Sooner or later, he always settles down and lets the intense zeal fall a bit. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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peterfalconer said: PurpleRighteous1 said: You can be friends with, associate with, and love someone without condoning their behavior. I think Prince realized this later in life and decided to do the right thing.
Indeed - Jesus himself counted Mary Magdeline, a prostitute, as one of his closest companions. (To the Christians on the board, PLEASE don't take this as an inflammatory or derogatory comment - I'm merely giving an example of how many religions teach forgiveness and tolerance as well as everything else! Hell, I'm getting enough abuse on this thread as it is! )*clears throat* Ms. Magdalene was no prostitute. But that's for another thread.... "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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vainandy said: You don't know that. And even if he says he hasn't, that means nothing. I could say I've never had sex with men either.....and I would be a damn lie. 
One of my close friends has had sex with so many men I suspect he's lost count...but he'll never ever admit to it. Ask him, and he's straight as an arrow. Some people for whatever reason just can't bring themselves to be honest. I don't pretend to know what Prince does in his sparetime, but I'm not so naive as to think that he only sleeps with women just because he's said so. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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OperatingThetan said: Jehovah's Witnesses believe that homosexuality is a sin. This could be interpreted as a 'type' of homophobia or prejudice, but one could argue that is merely disapproval. Jehovah's Witnesses believe fornicators and people who live together before marriage and smokers are sinning against Jehovah God. Homosexuality is just one in a long line of condemned practices.
Prince probably disapproves of the lifestyles of 95% of his audience. That does not necessarily indicate that he is either prejudiced or hateful toward them. Prince is following a rather rigid, literal interpretation of the Bible. Such beliefs come with the territory when you accept the entire Bible as infallibile and divine, as Jehovah's Witnesses do. So.....how about that bit forbidding men from wearing women's clothing?  "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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