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PrintableFruitToAttractBears said: Stymie said: there is indeed something wrong with being homophobic. How in the hell can any Prince fan be homophobic, bigoted or anything else about gay people when the man himself is effeminate, wears high heels and makeup?
 Because he doesn't have sex with men? I can dig that but most straight men don't dig the fact that some gay men are effeminate. How many songs has Prince eluded to being boy or girl? | |
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Stymie said: thepope2the9s said: I would not say that prince is homophobic,not that their is anything wrong with that. there is indeed something wrong with being homophobic. How in the hell can any Prince fan be homophobic, bigoted or anything else about gay people when the man himself is effeminate, wears high heels and makeup? You would think that Prince fans (of all people) would be more tolerant.They support a guy who has been called "gay" all his life,lol. | |
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FruitToAttractBears said: Stymie said: there is indeed something wrong with being homophobic. How in the hell can any Prince fan be homophobic, bigoted or anything else about gay people when the man himself is effeminate, wears high heels and makeup?
Because he doesn't have sex with men? Oh,I get it.Wearing high heels and make-up is okay,though | |
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Stymie said: FruitToAttractBears said: Because he doesn't have sex with men? I can dig that but most straight men don't dig the fact that some gay men are effeminate. How many songs has Prince eluded to being boy or girl? My dad digs it. When it comes to Prince anyway. I think he finds it like, gay but endearing or something to that effect, if that even makes sense. " | |
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SoulAlive said: FruitToAttractBears said: Because he doesn't have sex with men? Oh,I get it.Wearing high heels and make-up is okay,though You get a pass for all that when you're a rock-star...duh " | |
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FruitToAttractBears said: SoulAlive said: Oh,I get it.Wearing high heels and make-up is okay,though You get a pass for all that when you're a rock-star...duh | |
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SoulAlive said:[quote] Stymie said: there is indeed something wrong with being homophobic. How in the hell can any Prince fan be homophobic, bigoted or anything else about gay people when the man himself is effeminate, wears high heels and makeup?
You would think that Prince fans (of all people) would be more tolerant.They support a guy who has been called "gay" all his life,lol.[/quote
Not agreeing w/the lifestyle of homesexuality (as in JW and christian belief) is not the same as being homophobic. Truth be told, P has been accused of being gay his whole career..and I have been accused of being gay for being a Fam of his....but Im not and I dont believe he is either. Im also not homophobic...I have people in my life who live that lifestyle and I love them...even though I dont agree w/what they do Stand Up! Everybody, this is your life!
https://www.facebook.com/...pope2the9s follow me on twitter @thepope2the9s | |
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thepope2the9s - your signature is absolutely bang on target. | |
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peterfalconer said: JudasLChrist said: Anyone who questions my mere right to exist, or the ethics of my existing, over something as petty as sexual orientation IS a bigoted asshole. End of story.
Anybody who merely questions something rather than blindly accepting it without asking why is a bigot?! How very liberal of you, JudasLChrist. I don't really care what the reasons why are. It's intellectually disingenuous to equate being queer with any political orientation. Never said I was 'liberal'. | |
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JudasLChrist said: and there it is:
http://www.freetimes.com/story/2261 Melvoin's most recent — and perhaps strangest — encounter with Prince came in February of this year. She and her twin sister Susannah (Prince's ex-girlfriend and co-lead singer of his 1986 side project, the Family) wanted to see his post-Grammys concert at the House of Blues nightclub in West Hollywood.
“I had to call his guitar tech to let Prince know that the Revolution wants to be there,'' she said. “We got this phone call to [drummer] Bobby Z, saying ‘Everybody can go, Bobby can go for free, but everybody else has to pay.' What the hell is this? So we get there; none of us have to pay, but it was incredibly difficult to get in there. There's Steven Tyler and Beck walking by us and all those other people. It was an odd place to be in. We finally got shuffled off to this room where there wasn't a seat for us and we all just had to stand there. “He played the show. He called a whole bunch of people onstage, but he didn't call any of us. I thought, ‘Well, that's it.' His wife came up to me and introduced herself, and I told her to thank him for the tickets and goodbye. “Then the next day, I get this call from [the guitar tech] saying, ‘Prince would like you to come down to the recording studio and rehearse with him on acoustic guitar for a benefit he's doing for the Tavis Smiley Show . I'm like, ‘What the hell?' I haven't talked to him since the [Revolution] reunion tour we tried to put together in 2000, and he declined doing it because of me and my homosexuality and I'm half Jewish. It came back: ‘Go have a press conference denouncing your homosexuality and that you're converting to Jehovah.' I was like: ‘I guess we'll never hear from him again.' And I had to kind of mourn him. And I've got to be honest with you: It was devastating to think we've kind of lost him. “Then he called out of the blue, and the curiosity got the best of me. I'm irreverent and resilient emotionally. I went down, and he was remarkably kind and open and gave me huge hug. He had me sit in with his band while they were rehearsing. I just hung with him for two hours, learned the song he wanted to do, got the information about the show. I got there the next day and met him on the set. It was just him and me, and he was gorgeous. He was the guy I knew when I first met him. He was the guy who spent the night at my and Lisa's house on our pullout bed. It was beautiful to see him. I held on to him and kept kissing him and hugging him and telling him I loved him. I don't know what to think of it. He knows we all love him; we're all his loyal friends.'' Sorta makes ya kind of sniffly... [Edited 3/10/07 20:20pm] I think there's sometimes a conflict between dogma, and how you're supposed to behave and one's own principles. It sounds as though Prince may have felt bad about his treatment of old friends and put his religion aside to do what was right. | |
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JudasLChrist said: peterfalconer said: Anybody who merely questions something rather than blindly accepting it without asking why is a bigot?! How very liberal of you, JudasLChrist. I don't really care what the reasons why are. It's intellectually disingenuous to equate being queer with any political orientation. Never said I was 'liberal'. Let me rephrase that: "How very liberal-minded of you, JudasLChrist." Are you being deliberately obtuse? | |
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peterfalconer said: JudasLChrist said: I don't really care what the reasons why are. It's intellectually disingenuous to equate being queer with any political orientation. Never said I was 'liberal'. Let me rephrase that: "How very liberal-minded of you, JudasLChrist." Are you being deliberately obtuse? No, I'm being very clear. | |
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JudasLChrist said: peterfalconer said: Let me rephrase that: "How very liberal-minded of you, JudasLChrist." Are you being deliberately obtuse? No, I'm being very clear. It's not "intellectually disingenuous", as you put it, to question homosexuality. It's "intellectually disingenuous" to just blindly accept something without question, and burn me at the stake if you like, but that goes for homosexuality too. There are plenty of reasons why it's a perfectly valid and acceptable lifestyle, but there are plenty of reasons why it isn't, also. Bellowing your own opinions and denouncing everybody else as a bigot isn't really a bright idea. | |
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peterfalconer said: JudasLChrist said: No, I'm being very clear. It's not "intellectually disingenuous", as you put it, to question homosexuality. That's not what I said. What's disingenuous is to equate any kind of sexual orientation with a political outlook. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle. It's a sexual orientation, like the color of one's eyes or genetic make-up. There's nothing to "question". | |
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JudasLChrist said: peterfalconer said: It's not "intellectually disingenuous", as you put it, to question homosexuality. That's not what I said. What's disingenuous is to equate any kind of sexual orientation with a political outlook. Homosexuality is not a lifestyle. It's a sexual orientation, like the color of one's eyes or genetic make-up. There's nothing to "question". I wasn't equating sexual orientation with a political outlook - I was pointing out how bigoted you sounded while you were denouncing others as bigots. Kind of like saying "All extremists should be shot". And if you weren't such a narrow-minded fool, you'd know that the nature vs nurture debate regarding homosexuality is still as lively as ever - there's plenty to "question". | |
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thepope2the9s said:[quote] SoulAlive said: Stymie said: there is indeed something wrong with being homophobic. How in the hell can any Prince fan be homophobic, bigoted or anything else about gay people when the man himself is effeminate, wears high heels and makeup?
You would think that Prince fans (of all people) would be more tolerant.They support a guy who has been called "gay" all his life,lol.[/quote
Not agreeing w/the lifestyle of homesexuality (as in JW and christian belief) is not the same as being homophobic. Truth be told, P has been accused of being gay his whole career..and I have been accused of being gay for being a Fam of his....but Im not and I dont believe he is either. Im also not homophobic...I have people in my life who live that lifestyle and I love them...even though I dont agree w/what they do I really have to dig deep to see why this really bothers me..... Do your friends know that you don't agree with "what they do." You have to understand that my being gay isn't 100% "what I do". M [Edited 3/12/07 14:41pm] MyeternalgrattitudetoPhil&Val.Herman said "We want sweaty truckers at the truck stop! We want cigar puffing men that look like they wanna beat the living daylights out of us" Val"sporking is spooning with benefits" | |
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MIGUELGOMEZ said: thepope2the9s said: You would think that Prince fans (of all people) would be more tolerant.They support a guy who has been called "gay" all his life,lol.[/quote
Not agreeing w/the lifestyle of homesexuality (as in JW and christian belief) is not the same as being homophobic. Truth be told, P has been accused of being gay his whole career..and I have been accused of being gay for being a Fam of his....but Im not and I dont believe he is either. Im also not homophobic...I have people in my life who live that lifestyle and I love them...even though I dont agree w/what they do I really have to dig deep to see why this really bothers me..... M It is what it is on its face. | |
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Stymie said: MIGUELGOMEZ said: I really have to dig deep to see why this really bothers me..... M It is what it is on its face.I have given up on trying to justify my life, not "lifestyle". By the way I love you!! M MyeternalgrattitudetoPhil&Val.Herman said "We want sweaty truckers at the truck stop! We want cigar puffing men that look like they wanna beat the living daylights out of us" Val"sporking is spooning with benefits" | |
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noimageatall said: That's one of the things that had me upset when I found out he was a JW. Because they TOTALLY condemn homosexuality. And through his songs and personality, I completely changed my view towards a lot of things I was brought up to think were evil.
You cannot be a Jehovah's Witness and condone homosexuality at all. Yes, homosexuality and many religions don't mix. However, neither does heterosexual premarital sex. Now if Prince were to judge homosexuals, he would be quite the hypocrite, since he's probably slept with more women than I've spoken to my entire life. | |
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MIGUELGOMEZ said: Stymie said: No sweetie, no you don't.
It is what it is on its face.I have given up on trying to justify my life, not "lifestyle". By the way I love you!! M  | |
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pacey68 said: Found the source. Cleveland Free Times interview with Wendy Melvoin, she said it was her sexuality AND religion (she's half Jewish) which P had issues with. She said he wanted her to publically denounce her sexuality and convert to a JW.
http://www.freetimes.com/story/2261 On the subject of band member's sexuality I recall a thread in Housequake that said Mr Hayes was gay and thanks his boyfriend in the sleeve notes of Exodus. If this is true then why didn't Prince have a problem with this also? The plot thickens..... Because Prince has a love and hate relationship with Wendy and Lisa and now they are still cool, i guess. | |
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SoulAlive said: Stymie said: there is indeed something wrong with being homophobic. How in the hell can any Prince fan be homophobic, bigoted or anything else about gay people when the man himself is effeminate, wears high heels and makeup?
You would think that Prince fans (of all people) would be more tolerant.They support a guy who has been called "gay" all his life,lol.That's a lie lol I used to think that false belief myself LOL. | |
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peterfalconer said:[quote] JudasLChrist said: I was pointing out how bigoted you sounded while you were denouncing others as bigots. Kind of like saying "All extremists should be shot". And if you weren't such a narrow-minded fool, you'd know that the nature vs nurture debate regarding homosexuality is still as lively as ever - there's plenty to "question". The nature vs. nurture debate is moot. People are heterosexual or homosexual or whatever, regardless of the supposed reasons. There's no changing it. The only people who don't believe that, generally, are religious folks with political agendas. It's not 'bigoted' for me to call persons who question my right to exist and find love and happiness in this world bigots. [Edited 3/12/07 17:45pm] | |
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Stymie said: FruitToAttractBears said: Because he doesn't have sex with men? I can dig that but most straight men don't dig the fact that some gay men are effeminate. How many songs has Prince eluded to being boy or girl?Lyrically Prince plays with gender a LOT. There've been quite a few songs wherein he never quite gets around to revealing the gender of the person he's singing to, or he hints that "he" may really be "she" and that "she" may really be "he", or he portrays himself romantically and sexually as passive and *ahem* receiving. There's been quite a few songs he's given to woman artists over the years that so accurately sound "female" you'd really think it was a woman who wrote them. And let's not forget songs like We Can Funk where he states he can "be your girl or your boy" (to George Clinton, but I'm not touching that one) and Anna Stesia where he asks if you've ever been so lonely you'd play with anyone, boy or girl.... I don't think it's so simple as saying Prince thinks this or Prince thinks that when it comes to gender or sexuality. I can only speak based on what I've seen as a fan, but everything he does in relation to sex, sexuality, gender, and gender roles is vague and always shifting. At first I thought it might all be for show; a part of the act, the public persona. But then, can you imagine trying to keep up an act of sexual malleability for nearly 30 years without cracking? Prince is nowhere near being that talented an actor to pull it off successfully. I happen to think the man's not as hetero as many of his fans prefer to think. What he, I think, is complicated. "A Watcher scoffs at gravity!" | |
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Prince has never come across to me as really being gay, his act is just that and has always been interpreted as such by me. I would be willing to bet that all the guys he hung with and grew up with would also tell you the guy is a lot less eccentric than we think he is. As a fan I have never really cared whether he was gay,bi or straight and wouldn't have any problems with him being gay, I just don't buy it, I feel it's just a way for him to express himself and to get attention. Many of his fans probably do think he's gay, some of his macho inner city fans do, but they don't really care because he is so charismatic and so good at what he does. | |
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JudasLChrist said: The only people who don't believe that, generally, are religious folks with political agendas.
I'm absolutely staggered at how naive you are! It's not 'bigoted' for me to call persons who question my right to exist and find love and happiness in this world bigots.
From your previous posts, JudasLChrist, you are quite hotly intolerant of those people who, for whatever reason (not that you'd ever care to listen), don't entirely agree with homosexuality. This, I'm afraid, makes you a bigot. | |
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peterfalconer said: JudasLChrist said: The only people who don't believe that, generally, are religious folks with political agendas.
I'm absolutely staggered at how naive you are! It's not 'bigoted' for me to call persons who question my right to exist and find love and happiness in this world bigots.
From your previous posts, JudasLChrist, you are quite hotly intolerant of those people who, for whatever reason (not that you'd ever care to listen), don't entirely agree with homosexuality. This, I'm afraid, makes you a bigot. Nope. I'm not denying those people jobs of housing , or the right to work with or adopt children or hospital vistation nor am I threatening their lives, harrasing them or working to legislate against them in any way, shape or form. Nothing bigoted about how I roll. What you are trying to do here is OWN the conversation around oppression. Your arguments don't work. Persons who discriminate against non-heterosexuals aren't oppressed. They're just assholes. I'm not naive at all. I've covered more ground in this topic than you have in my life. I can gaurantee you that. I've never heard of anyone or any organization that wasn't religious that claimed people could change their sexual orientation. Or, more descriptively, that cared. [Edited 3/13/07 8:47am] [Edited 3/13/07 8:48am] | |
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JudasLChrist said: peterfalconer said: From your previous posts, JudasLChrist, you are quite hotly intolerant of those people who, for whatever reason (not that you'd ever care to listen), don't entirely agree with homosexuality. This, I'm afraid, makes you a bigot. Nope. I'm not denying those people jobs of housing , or the right to work with or adopt children or hospital vistation nor am I threatening their lives, harrasing them or working to legislate against them in any way, shape or form. Nothing bigoted about how I roll. What you are trying to do here is OWN the conversation around oppression. Your arguments don't work. Persons who discriminate against non-heterosexuals aren't oppressed. They're just assholes. I'm not naive at all. I've covered more ground in this topic than you have in my life. I can gaurantee you that. I've never heard of anyone or any organization that wasn't religious that claimed people could change their sexual orientation. Or, more descriptively, that cared. [Edited 3/13/07 8:47am] [Edited 3/13/07 8:48am] Bloody hell - after two edits your post is still a garbled nonsense. You really can't see the other side of the argument, can you? | |
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peterfalconer said: SoulAlive said: So,you're calling Wendy a liar? No - I just think saying you're "Half Jewish" is a bit naff. How many "Half Buddhists" do you know? Is Jewish not a race as well as a religion? | |
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LittleSmedley said: peterfalconer said: No - I just think saying you're "Half Jewish" is a bit naff. How many "Half Buddhists" do you know? Is Jewish not a race as well as a religion? Arguably, yes - descendants of Israel. My tongue was lurking near my cheek. 
Plus, I know too many people who claim to be "half Jewish", not because they're genuinely interested in Judaism, but because they want a licence to have a chip on their shoulder and act indignant about certain things without having the responsibility of conforming to a certain belief. Bit insulting to Jewish people, if you ask me. And no, I'm not saying everybody who says they're "half Jewish" is like that! | |
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