CosmicTalk said:

Emancipation is an embarrassment. He was raving about this shit and there is nothing monumntal or groundbreaking other than it being a 3 CD set and it should have been a double disc leaving out trash like We Gets up, Get Yo Groove On and Da Da Da. There are songs on here I really really love but this is what he fought so hard to be free to do? Right If he released Rainbow children at that point then yes, I would understand why he fought so hard but this? Subpar for Prince. Really it is.

Anx said:

Exactly. Now I'm drooling thiking of a full fledged new wave Prince album!

c&d is waaaaay better than the vault

Anx said:

I didn't say he purposely released bad music, I'm saying he released subpar music that he didn't give a damn about because of it was Warner Bros. He also knew if he had given them something completely different from what he was putting out, they could have sued him...on the same token, he wasn't gonna put out complete trash either. That's why I called it filler-trash. I'm judging C&D on the quality that it was weak music from P.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

That's your opinion, but that doesn't mean P didn't put his heart and soul into unlike he did for C&D and that's the whole point.

CosmicTalk said:

It isn't weak musically at all. Instead of being computer programmed there is a band PLAYING THE HELL OUT OF THEIR INSTRUMENTS. People act like he just threw these songs together in fifteen minutes and gave it away. These were songs that were crafted and intended for release and songs that came from his heart. Otherwise why would he have a tear running coming from his eye on the cover? Chaos and Disorder has less to do with the musical style or cohesion of the album as it does his life at the time. It was a statement and he answered within by challenging traditional notions and authority. This album freakin rules

CosmicTalk said:

i think you're half-right. i think he recorded an album without a care in his mind that it should be commercial or successful. he took the same approach with 'the rainbow children', but for more positive reasons. in both cases, the end result was colorful, challenging music with provocative lyrics.

when prince 'puts on his sunday best' and aims for mainstream pop success, we get stiff, over-produced, plastic, second-guessy stuff like 'emancipation', 'rave' and his last two albums.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Or they were throwaways. P is capable of having throwaway songs to which he doesn't really give a shit about. I think some of us just can't imagine that P sometimes does half-ass material and then doesn't do anything else with it.

It still to this day sounds exactly like filler to finish out a bad contract and relationship. It wreaks of it, actually.

Anx said:

Definitely agreed.

CosmicTalk said:

It doesn't. This is what you were conditioned to believe and you bit the bait.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

How was I conditioned to believe that when I heard the album and decided for myself that it was filler-crap?

CosmicTalk said:

You're parroting the standard "filler" lines. There are early versions of many of these songs that prove that these were songs Prince already had created and not just for a filler throw away album. C&D smokes most of the shit on Emancipation. If you love zero calory empty plastic containers, that's great but C&D is a solid release. Talk about filler. Get Yo Groove on and We Gets up? What is even the point of releasing that crap? Nothing but self indulgence, that's what.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Just because there were "early versions" of congs doesn't mean he put his heart and soul into any of them. Again, I think you're going off this whole "P as a genius" thing and only looking at it from that angle. The point of releasing the "crap" was to fulfill a contract to where he didn't want to help WB make gobs of money off his last album on his way out.

CosmicTalk said:

I do think P is a genius but I am not one of those kooks who can't admit he just served up a steaming pile of crap. Can anyone say Musuckology?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Yes, he is a genius and I would qualify C&D as that "steaming pile of crap" you speak of.

I like C&D better. Sounds more cohesive.

CosmicTalk said:

To each their own. C&D is cohesive and Emancipation is all over the place with definite filler. Eat your plastic forks for all I care

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

It's the opposite of the Black Album. If C&D had been an album planned for release but cancelled and then leaked, everyone would hail it as a long, lost favorite, a classic underground Prince album.

NorthernLad said:

Exactly. But because "contract obligations" is mentioned, people either go into it or come out of it with a write off mentality. It's absolutely absurd because it is such a great album.

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[Edited 1/18/07 14:26pm]

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

And I can't understand why folks would think that Prince would intentionally deliver crap, for WHATEVER reason. He has too much of an ego, and I would like to think the fans mean SOMETHING to that man... ya know? Everything he's released, he's believed in IMHO. And technically - ANYTHING he released via WB was contractually obligated.

NorthernLad said:

Has anyone ever told you how smart you are?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

you so sweet!

NorthernLad said:

I've always felt the "disclaimer" on the album served tow purposes: 1) it illuminated his struggle with WB, and 2) it was a nod to the Dirty Mind legend of releasing demos. In a way Dirty Mind was the birth of Prince, and he was going through a rebirth whan he did Chaos. They are similarly raucous, simple, fun & rock based.

I totally agree that Prince believed in the album. In a way he was showing off, saying "oh this old thing? It's just something I threw together" knowing it's still better than most artists' best albums.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

But Emancipation is exactly that! - Free! No cohesiveness, no formula..he was FREED! Not only from WB but musically as well. It made sense, just like it made sense to call C&D just that; that's what he was feeling at that time.

CosmicTalk said:

So are you telling me you think We Gets Up and Get Yo Groove On were worth the entire fight with WB?

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Yep. Because it wasn't JUST those cuts that were on the album. Now, P doing Country & Western like he did on C&D - - I'll pass!

CosmicTalk said:

I like Emancipation, too, for what it is. Actually I think it is pretty cohesive--less so disc 3 maybe--but that's what's impressive to me about it. The sound holds together pretty well.

Still that's just the sound & structure. I know what you're saying. He broke certain of his own conventions--like doing covers, having disc 2 be mostly slow songs, and of course, the sheer size of it as a whole.

CosmicTalk said:

I'll take Country and Western with great lyrics over colonic leftovers that is we Gets up and Get yo groove on

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

It's pretty tough to pick a side in this battle!

NDRU said:

I think you know which side will win