stim said:

spaghetti story is true, Prince talks about it in the big 1985 Rolling Stone interview, but where is this sample in Lovesexy????

dseann said:

I've followed Frank for many years and I have to agree. He usually gives back what he gets ten fold...going right for the jugular...or cutting 'em off at the knees. This time he showed MASSIVE restraint. Those old farts got off easy!

It could be because he was entertaining future political aspirations. I remember quite a lot of "Zappa for President" hype back in the 80s and early 90s.

I started a thread about this a month or two ago.
http://www.prince.org/msg/7/206255
I didn't think anyone gave a damn. So many people on this forum like to compare Prince with entertainers like MJ, but I think Prince has much more in common with an artist like Zappa. "Zappa vs Prince"....now THAT would be an interesting thread!

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ufoclub said:

I remember reading about this in Frank's book "The Real Frank Zappa Biography." He sounded very disappointed to me. But later on Zappa also shunned the whole "anti-censorship" campaign because he became the poster child for it. I remember him saying that everytime a record gets censored, his phone rings.

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gcu1 said:

well Zappa didn't get Prince's side. Prince said he wasn't offended by the spagetti ad, it was his lawyers acting without his motivation.

ufoclub said:

At 3'56" in Lovesexy you can hear the word 'Bizarre!' from the opening of the track 'Our Bizarre Relationship' on Zappa's 'Uncle Meat' album. The same sample also appears at 5'33" of 'Bob George'.
There's an audio preview at amazon.com on the Uncle Meat page - Disc 1, Track 10. Couldn't get url to work here.
[Edited 12/15/06 1:14am]

stim said:

THAT"S WHERE "BIZARRE" IS FROM???? I've been wondring about this sample for a long time (ususually samples at this time were from himself, like "wicked witch"). this sample is also on "All My Dreams" and in one of the madhouse tracks that also has many noises from Bob George.

Now i have to buy the Zappa album!

the spaghetti was funny. the ad was something like: a purple light and the say "now in concert.... no not that prince.... " and it showed the product.

prince said in the RS interview it was his lawyers....but if i were to bet it would be that Zappa was right... but prince found out he had no case. (the add can be seen on the "prince unauthroised" bio...it is garbage but i have seen it for a few bucks here and there.

funny that about that time there was that fruity pebbles spot with Barny dressed like prince, on a motorcycle, singing "purple purple grape grape"

What Frank Zappa should have said,

The people who endorse censoring lyrics tried to do it on the back of another Prince song, Darling Nikki -- which isn't really dirty and which makes perfect sense in the context of the movie in which it was used. When they couldn't make any progress with that, they decided to look at Prince's prior catalog and find something else. "Sister" -- the song in question -- was released five years ago. No one protested at the time (you need to get out more, John) -- and it does not glorify, condone, or endorse incest. It isn't even the dirtiest song on the album on which it appears. It's just a convenient target because it deals with the most taboo subject the people leading this charge could think of.

Oh -- and for the record, this ain't a Republican vs Democrat issue. The woman who started the whole brouhaha was Tipper Gore, who was (and is) married to a Democrat.

True conservatives are always for less government intrusion into things like this.

I wrote that stupid old crow(Novak) and e-mail...

Censorship for me is a very dangerous topic. It's society's job to censor and not the government''s. Otherwise the almighty gov't can use censorship to protect itself. I think we all know this. On the OLD ass episode of crossfire I just view courtesy googlevideo scares me. There was a topic of incest that kept getting mentioned that related to a specific song. The song is called sister and it is by Prince(who has, as U may enjoy, been censoring himself a lot as of late). It kept being mentioned that the song advocated incest, which it doesn't. Most of the situations described in the song are undesirable and the last line of the song says "incest is everything it's said to be". That said, not many speak highly of incest so I think the songs point is made there.
My main point is that censoring material makes the assumption that the person listening to the material does not have the ability to know what is good and bad for them. One would be making the assumption that americans are stupid and don't have the ability to relate information and interpret things as they apply to THEIR lives. That is NOT nice and IS NOT the role of our gov't, to make these assumptions for us. For if someone keeps doing this for us, we WOULD loose that wonderful ability we have as humans for it would be out of practice.
I'm of african american decent and despise the things that the KKK have to say about me and my culture, as does the KKK probably hate and despise the feelings I have about their lack of culture, the wonderful thing about being american is that we are able to have these opinions and share them with whom we want and with whom will listen. THe important part being "whom will listen," for if we have some stupid lame ass thing to say that no one wants to listen to, it speaks VOLUMES to the speaker.
U can say,print, record ANY piece of *#$*^# U want, just don't use the govt's resources to do so, use your own. We should apply this thought to many of the politician's out there today(namely Mr. Bush...and yes, I forgot president for a reason.)


...I got an email address for him of novakevans@aol.com

BobGeorge909 said:

You sent Robert Novak an email about a show that aired over ten years ago?

Genesia said:

yeah...he prolly won't read it...he has assistant's and what not...but why not, I wasn't up to much else...plus I hate that fucker....he was involved in that whole "outing of a CIA agent" thing that happened in the states....conservative old crow!

BobGeorge909 said:

In other words, you enjoy parading your ignorance on all levels.

Genesia said:

I have an opinion like everyone else...and let's face it. I wasn't talking to u.

BobGeorge909 said:

you mean the one that never happened? you know that after 2 years fitz could not find a single person to charge... so why is it so hard for some to believe it just didn't happen?

gyro34 said:

That's how I saw it too.

Isn't it funny how Sister is always referred to as an "ode" to incest, or as a song about "Prince fucking his sister" as if he was celebrating the act. But I always got the very clear impression from the song that "sister" was the perpetrator, and that the protagonist of the song (Prince?) wasn't exactly a willing participant. Chalk that up to society's unwillingness to accept women as predators, I suppose.

ufoclub said:

I think it makes more sense for Prince to defend his immediate interests than to have participated in Tipper Gore's dog and pony show. He had no obligations to Frank or anybody else to be there. If it wasn't his song sparking the debate, then it would have been somebody else's song. Not to mention that Prince wasn't the only artist being grilled....I didn't hear Frank bashing Van Halen for not being there and the Hot For Teacher video was offered up as evidence during those hearings.

Maybe Frank was really just disappointed that he didn't get to hang out with Prince....sort of like he felt snubbed personally.

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meow85 said:

I agree with you that society has created the myth that women cannot be sexual predators. Prince is very brave to sing against it.

if you listed to the "one song" speech price gave he sounds like he is not all that pleased with some of the so called art that is out there. his argument that life imitates art is interesting. if not for doom would there have been a Columbine? *who knows... what they would have done with out that inspiration and training?

SlamGlam said:

this is very interesting add The Matrix to that.

- In the United Kingdom the sexual violence in the film (Clockwork Orange) was considered extreme. Furthermore, claims that the film had inspired copycat behaviour were made. The press blamed the influence of the film for an attack on a homeless person and a rape in which the attackers sang "Singin' in the Rain". The film was subsequently withdrawn from UK distribution by Kubrick himself.
At the time, it was widely believed that the copycat attacks were what led Kubrick to withdraw the film from distribution in the United Kingdom. However, in a television documentary made after Kubrick's death, his widow Christiane confirmed rumours that Kubrick had withdrawn A Clockwork Orange on police advice after threats were made against Kubrick and his family. (The source of the threats was not discussed.) That Warner Bros. acceded to Kubrick's request to withdraw the film is an indication of the remarkable relationship Kubrick had with the studio, particularly the executive Terry Semel.
Whatever the reason for the film's withdrawal, it could not easily be seen in the United Kingdom for some 27 years. The first video and DVD releases followed shortly after Kubrick's death.

dseann said:

This is not just a problem with "older people", this is people in general. The real problem here is this was made in the '80s. These "older" gentlemen are ultra conservative, right wing morons, and these same personality types are still around TODAY. There are plenty of "older" people who completely agree with Frank Zappa's position that there should be no censorship, so don't blame it as an "older" people problem. I run into plenty of 20- and 30-somethings who are ultra conservative and right-wing as well. I had a conversation with a lady in her 20s last week over pornography. She believes that it should be completely eradicated off the face of the planet, and she didn't see my point of view at all nor did she believe that it should be taken in moderation, just flat out made illegal for everybody. I find that pretty extreme.

Back to these blow hards, I found it interesting that when Frank was defending the "incest" issue the one idiot goes something like incest has just become a problem in the last 20 years and the look on Frank's face was so classic and the other guy goes "much longer than that."

LQ

Brilliant

Gets my big up for defending sanatan dharma (Hinduism)

gyro34 said:

For sure. It happens more often than people realize. Especially, like the song suggests, if the woman is in a position of authority over the man. (a 16 year old kid in the care of his 32 year old sister) Sexual abuse is not a far-fetched scenario.

Prince easily could've written a song promoting incest, and who knows? Maybe there's one locked away in his infamous Vault. But this one's definitely not it.

But what I find most unsettling about Sister is not the subject matter, but the music. For such a dark theme, it's got such a happy, upbeat sound.

meow85 said:

Yeah, the music is upbeat, but it is also fast paced. Could he be using some irony? If he experienced incest, it must be very difficult to let pain out too openly. Therefore, the need to hide it with irony.

Zappa appeared on Crossfire again the following year:

http://www.youtube.com/wa...DDIiIOFE_Q

http://www.youtube.com/wa...ed&search=
[Edited 12/17/06 16:10pm]

I've a Borat feeling when I see Zappa there

I forgot how fucked up the 80's were

LadyQ said:

I stand corrected on the "older people" issue and agree with your points of view. It is a stubborn person problem.

Didn't John try to blame Zappa for the "increase of incest" until Frank pointed out the his lyrics were not in question?

That idiot was just being an asshole, reminds me of Faldwell.
If they don't like something then the general public should have no right to like or dislike the said thing.

spaceboy:

dseann said:

I remember Frank said that his album "Jazz From Hell" was placed on the list of some watchdog group (I can't remeber which group he said it was) for having explicit lyrics. The problem was that "Jazz From Hell" is an instrumental album...no lyrics.

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gcu1 said: