Lately, I've read a lot of comments about the upcoming Live ONA CD. Everyone seems excited, but many here are anticipating intrusive "overdubs." Here are my questions: Are all overdubs bad? Is it ever acceptable to play pre-recorded loops during a live performance? Isn't it better to have a collection of the very best individual performances from the ONA Tour, than to have a live disc solely derived from a single venue?

From what I've heard so far, including a downloaded version of the Montreal "Days of Wild" (attention NPG - I have happily purchased the CD from the NPGMC site to have an official copy - can't wait to get it!) I am not bothered by what have been described as "overdubs."

Is it possible that they are not overdubs at all? Take the live version of "Gett Off" from the Hit N Run, Ruby Skye show in SF. I was there, and I seem to remember Prince using a recorded loop of that famous intro SCREAM to start the song. On the NPGMC video release of this song from last year's downloads, you can clearly see that Prince doesn't do the "scream" live. Is that a bad thing? If someone were now to hear that live performance on an audio CD, would they accuse Prince of intrusive "overdubbing"?

The way I see it, it's all under Prince's artistic control. Editing, enhancing, remastering, whatever - it's his gig. Many artists in most media use editing to enhance the released product. For those who prefer poor quality boots, that's up to you. For my money, I want the best version you've got.
[This message was edited Wed Aug 28 19:49:22 PDT 2002 by TheMax]

Its a matter of taste.

Some people are more purists & don't want the recording of a live event altered. It takes a way from the integrity of the recording. The truthfulness of the recording is lessened by overdubs & tweeking.

Other people may look on it as a stand alone recording & the Live-ness of it is secondary to the final production. Adding a horn section in production afterwards & removing the woman screaming "Prince I love you" is a good thing.

Take your pick.

I think the main reason everybody jumps on overdubs is when he tales the recording back to the studio and puts down more sounds over it. It doesn't worry me or alot of people that he uses backing tracks live, it's just the editing afterwards that people get frustrated over.

TheMax said:

That's a good point. I think overdubs are fine if they're used as part of that live performance (i.e. the scream loop you're talking about). BUT when he farts around with it AFTER the show is over, that's when it gets whack.

It seems like you can tell when an overdub has been added on - it's louder than the rest of the sounds, it's cleaner than the rest of the sounds, it's distracting. I could be wrong. All I know is the DOW single from the celebration was not cool...

Does anyone feel that the 5 promo tracks from Indianapolis were significantly overdubbed? I though the sound was amazingly clean, better than any boot recording of Prince that I've heard, and it's not obvious to me that non-live material was added.

I'd be completely satisfied if the quality of the upcoming ONA CD from Prince is equal to those promotional songs.

SunFlowerz said:

Eye totally agree with this SunFlowerz.. the Days Of Wild noises, Claps, Layering of Voices was very distracting, and eye hated to sound picky, but it makes the song sound very lame.. The claps is what really got me.. he crapped on that one:)

The Promotional thing he sent 2 the radios sounded good.. if its like that, it'll all b good 2 me!

TheMax said:

There were NO overdubs on the Indianapolis EP which is why it's SO DAMN FUNKIN' GREAT! The DOW single is a perfect example of how a track can be changed and altered via overdubs.

My thoughts are Prince is one of the most amazing live musicians ever created...i don't see why he feels he needs to 'enhance' his performances with dubbing - hell, even if he hits a wrong note i wanna hear it - it'll make me respect him even more!!!

TheMax said:

If you're a hip hop group without the backing of a band, sure. Otherwise, if you have a band backing you, and you're a musician yourself, I don't see the need for it. As a musician LIVE is where you prove your mettle. Most people who are into going to a lot of concerts and want to just hear the musicians play want the experience untainted by fiddling with technological modifications that weren't included in the original gig. The only modifications that most people want is good sound. That's different for different people.


Yes. Unless it's so obvious that a single gig is so impassioned, and has such a superior flow to individual songs from various gigs. And that determination is different for different people sometimes. Sometimes some of us detect passion that others don't detect at all. Odd, that.


True, but sometimes one person's enhancing is another's unnecessary fiddling and it could potentially dampen the music. Even if the artist in question is modifying his/her own music. Most people who want to hear a live album want the more visceral experience exactly as it happened. Right there, on stage at that time.

It's all personal taste. My opinion is; why fiddle with studio overdubs if you're going to release a LIVE ALBUM? Too much perfection can leave the material with less impact, and potentially leave it antiseptic. Which defeats the purpose.

I think we all agree on post-LIVE-performance tweaks, dubs and whatever.

Point is: how do we make this point clear to Prince, Paisley Park enterprises, etc, etc, etc?




udo

udo said:

easy answer: u can´t, NPGMC works like a gatekeeper, so mailing them about this will never get 2 Prince.


but maybe if we could ask him at a soundcheck...

udo said:

No udo, we don't all agree. The Max said in his original post.

The way I see it, it's all under Prince's artistic control. Editing, enhancing, remastering, whatever - it's his gig. Many artists in most media use editing to enhance the released product. For those who prefer poor quality boots, that's up to you. For my money, I want the best version you've got.

and I tend to think that way too.

udo said:

No we don't agree - some of us like the post-performance tweaking, dubbing & whatever - its not just live its SUPER-LIVE.

udo said:

The point is already clear to PP, hence the ad stating "minimal overdubs" etc. Oh theyve been readin' opinions on this, believe me.


I think most acts do tweaking and overdubvbing when a live set is released. Nothing new. It just seems that Prince at times goes overboard or tweaks and overdubs at inoppurtune moments and in the wrong parts in my opinion. Plus the fact that an artist of his stature and excellence as a musician, it is a slap in the face to overdub. He doesnt need the overdubbing in my opinion.
[This message was edited Thu Aug 29 8:53:06 PDT 2002 by rdhull]

ZaZa said:

...brilliant...I can now see Prince using this expression and sentiment as an excuse for for tweaking etc and as a statement on his site...hey thanks.

ZaZa said:

Unless I've been had, I recall a news item on the org saying that the Days of Wild track from Montreal had been released or was going to be released in Canada as a special single intended for play in clubs. If that was Prince's intention all along then that might explain the excessive overdubs on that track. I'm not an experienced clubber, but it seems to me if you've got something blasting over the speakers in a club, you want it to sound pretty strong.

So maybe P thought the DoW track wasn't quite right for club play as it was, and decided to fiddle around with the overdubs. Personally, I've gotten used to them, and I dig the final product. It's good to blast in the car while I'm driving around.