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Thread started 09/02/06 10:43am

gubbins4ever

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Crystal Ball II must be released (and Prince shouldn’t be behind it)

To realise music’s full potential is a process of digging through layers. Behind every album and song, there exists a treasure trove of work in progress alternate versions, extended remixes, and unreleased songs that never reached the public ear. Alongside the music there is the story of the music's creator(s), the musicians they played with, what inspired the songwriting, and the decisions they made on the road to the finished product. All of this brings new understanding and appreciation to output already released. In the same way that the DVD era of bonus materials has invited film enthusiasts into a deeper world of movie discovery, so can vault material do the same for music fans.

The benefit to fans and music-lovers alike that would arise out of vault music finding the light of day could barely be greater than with the work of one of popular culture's most prestigious musical legends: Prince. For almost thirty years, hundreds of unauthorised 'releases', the inevitable lost children of Prince's prolific output, have intrigued music diehards. Such underground recordings offer a more complete picture of Prince's career. Many songs, such as "Make It Through The Storm", shared the same recording sessions as their released counterparts; others, like the studio "Days Of Wild", were dropped from tracklists on prerelease album configurations; and there are countless alternative versions and live-only tracks, such as the extended and legendary "Computer Blue" and Purple Rain sendup "When Doves Scream". Not only has many a fan debate ensued over how many unreleased gems, such as "In All My Dreams", are superior to those officially available, but entire unreleased albums like Dream Factory jostle for position on favourite lists. Of course, many more songs and albums, such as Camille, The Dawn, and Roadhouse Garden, are known by name only.

Fans have long pined for Prince to commit such music to officialdom. So far they have had but one success: 1998's three-disc Crystal Ball. Whilst the thirty song collection yielded the outstanding "Crucial", "Acknowledge Me", and "Calhoun Square", amongst others, for many, the release was a missed opportunity. Uptown Magazine described the set as a "warts and all" collection that felt rushed, with many songs being remixes of existing material or having been previously released on other occasions. All in all, had they been choosing, many tracks would have been left aside by fans in favour of the countless circulating gems of higher quality. The calls for another Crystal Ball volume have been relentless ever since.

“From a fan's viewpoint, the state of Prince's archive is a travesty", said ex-manager Alan Leeds in an interview on fansite Prince.org. Whilst Leeds referred then to the state of Prince’s officially released material, the same could be said of his unreleased output, which has yet to be given the truly royal treatment it deserves. Says Susan Rogers, an engineer with Prince during his 80s heyday, "…he is an important figure in American music and with that comes (somewhat of) a responsibility to provide a record of his artistic progress. Artistic license means he can release whatever he wants of his own intellectual property but I think that when a true genius comes along, society benefits from seeing what he or she produced". So far, Prince's vault music has not received this respect.

The catch is this: Crystal Ball II would be better off without Prince's involvement. The task of producing a set worthy of Prince's legendary unreleased catalogue would be a herculanean task. If hundreds of vault tracks are known, then thousands must exist; all of which must be heard in order to search to compile a worthy set. With the speed Prince is known to work at, such a task would surely stretch his patience, compromising the final product. Furthermore, an outsider with an intimate knowledge of Prince's career, such as Per Neilsen of Uptown Magazine, would undoubtedly have a better idea of the market’s, in this case the fans’, tastes. An expert’s song choices would lack the interference of personal attachment that might make a track meaningful to the artist but not to the listener.

A decision to hand over the keys of the vault to such a project would be unprecedented surrender of the artistic control Prince's career shows he so craves. Nonetheless, there remains the chance that, with or without his full involvement, another Crystal Ball volume might see the light of day. The staggering scope of Prince's contribution to popular music culture and the towering achievement of his output, released and unreleased, surely deserves such a musical monument. The lack of such a set already in existence is surely one of music’s most glaring omissions.

[Source: Yours truly]
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Reply #1 posted 09/02/06 11:02am

2freaky4church
1

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Prince: "only my enemies buy bootlegs."
All you others say Hell Yea!! woot!
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Reply #2 posted 09/02/06 11:03am

sitruk7

2freaky4church1 said:

Prince: "only my enemies buy bootlegs."

Only his friends download it from the internet though wink
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Reply #3 posted 09/02/06 11:03am

origmnd

Well if he wants to lock me in the vault Ill spend my last days to listen to all the tracks and come up with a worthy compilation.

I cant help but surmise that fan unappreciation is at fault.

With all the bitch and moaners unleashed
after the shipping fiasco of the first CB,
could that have detered him?

Look at the 4 STUDIO CD a year membership
disaster that nearly caused a BBB floodgate?
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Reply #4 posted 09/02/06 11:18am

sitruk7

All he'd have to do is release a cd that features unreleased songs that have been loved by hard core fans for years.

I'm sure that due to his beliefs songs like Extra Lovable,Wonderful Ass,Schoolyard, and Electric Intercouse won't be released but that still leaves(edited when necessary) songs like Rebirth of the Flesh,Moonbeam Levels,In A Large Room With No Light,Make It Thru the Storm,The Grand Progression, All My Dreams and Witness 4 the Prosecution to name a few.

Skip the remixes of previously released tracks and there you go.Unfortunately, I believe that Prince has no interest in releasing old material because he believes that if he does,his fan base will think of it as if he's admitting that not all of his most recent music is on par with the older stuff.This,of course, is only an assumption but I'm afraid that his ego won't permit us to getting a Crystal Ball II that we really want if we'll ever even get one at all.

God, I hope I'm wrong!
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Reply #5 posted 09/02/06 1:03pm

ElCapitan

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It really wouldn't matter. Anyone could release 40 of the most talked about unreleased songs and you know what the consensus would be?

It's alright, but it'd be so much better if "_____" was on it....
[Edited 9/2/06 13:04pm]
"What kind of fuck ending is that?"
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Reply #6 posted 09/02/06 2:17pm

NouveauDance

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ElCapitan said:

It really wouldn't matter. Anyone could release 40 of the most talked about unreleased songs and you know what the consensus would be?

It's alright, but it'd be so much better if "_____" was on it....


That's right.... We want it ALLLLL dancing jig
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Reply #7 posted 09/02/06 2:19pm

jn2

nod and uncensored, around Christmas would be the perfect time, Prince please! pray
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Reply #8 posted 09/03/06 10:23am

gubbins4ever

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ElCapitan said:

It really wouldn't matter. Anyone could release 40 of the most talked about unreleased songs and you know what the consensus would be?

It's alright, but it'd be so much better if "_____" was on it....
[Edited 9/2/06 13:04pm]


Maybe that would happen to a small extent even with Prince's best efforts, but it's still easily possible to release a set that would really satisfy. Just include the 'usual suspects' (Moonbeam Levels, In All My Dreams, etc.) that fans know about, plus more unknown gems, and you'd have a killer set.
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Reply #9 posted 09/03/06 10:39am

AvramsDad

flyingpig flyingpig flyingpig
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Reply #10 posted 09/03/06 1:28pm

origmnd

AvramsDad said:

flyingpig flyingpig flyingpig


cool emo...


Doesnt Prince care that when hes gone scumbags will rape whats already out there , yet uncirculated ?
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Reply #11 posted 09/03/06 1:46pm

Paisley4u

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sitruk7 said:

All he'd have to do is release a cd that features unreleased songs that have been loved by hard core fans for years.

I'm sure that due to his beliefs songs like Extra Lovable,Wonderful Ass,Schoolyard, and Electric Intercouse won't be released but that still leaves(edited when necessary) songs like Rebirth of the Flesh,Moonbeam Levels,In A Large Room With No Light,Make It Thru the Storm,The Grand Progression, All My Dreams and Witness 4 the Prosecution to name a few.

Skip the remixes of previously released tracks and there you go.Unfortunately, I believe that Prince has no interest in releasing old material because he believes that if he does,his fan base will think of it as if he's admitting that not all of his most recent music is on par with the older stuff.This,of course, is only an assumption but I'm afraid that his ego won't permit us to getting a Crystal Ball II that we really want if we'll ever even get one at all.

God, I hope I'm wrong!

If those songs U mention are as good as Rebirth of the flesh(wich I discovered only a few months ago),I would be a dream come through!!!
I also heard a demo-version of Electric Intercourse...damn,that's the stuff we want,4get about Ultimate-compilations,WE WANT THE VAULT!
(I'll buy Ultimate though lol It will be released in Europe the 22th)
Love4oneanother
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Reply #12 posted 09/03/06 2:37pm

littlemissG

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Perhaps when one day when there's no alimony to pay, you'll get the released you've always dreamt of.
No More Haters on the Internet.
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Reply #13 posted 09/03/06 2:41pm

MickG

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littlemissG said:

Perhaps when one day when there's no alimony to pay, you'll get the released you've always dreamt of.


with the way prince lines the wives up just to push them down, doesn't that translate to never?
News: Prince pulls his head out his ass in the last moment.
Bad News: Prince wasted too much quality time doing so.
You have those internalized issues because you want to, you like to, stop.
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Reply #14 posted 09/03/06 5:58pm

Ifsixwuz9

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gubbins4ever said:

To realise music’s full potential is a process of digging through layers. Behind every album and song, there exists a treasure trove of work in progress alternate versions, extended remixes, and unreleased songs that never reached the public ear. Alongside the music there is the story of the music's creator(s), the musicians they played with, what inspired the songwriting, and the decisions they made on the road to the finished product. All of this brings new understanding and appreciation to output already released. In the same way that the DVD era of bonus materials has invited film enthusiasts into a deeper world of movie discovery, so can vault material do the same for music fans.

The benefit to fans and music-lovers alike that would arise out of vault music finding the light of day could barely be greater than with the work of one of popular culture's most prestigious musical legends: Prince. For almost thirty years, hundreds of unauthorised 'releases', the inevitable lost children of Prince's prolific output, have intrigued music diehards. Such underground recordings offer a more complete picture of Prince's career. Many songs, such as "Make It Through The Storm", shared the same recording sessions as their released counterparts; others, like the studio "Days Of Wild", were dropped from tracklists on prerelease album configurations; and there are countless alternative versions and live-only tracks, such as the extended and legendary "Computer Blue" and Purple Rain sendup "When Doves Scream". Not only has many a fan debate ensued over how many unreleased gems, such as "In All My Dreams", are superior to those officially available, but entire unreleased albums like Dream Factory jostle for position on favourite lists. Of course, many more songs and albums, such as Camille, The Dawn, and Roadhouse Garden, are known by name only.

Fans have long pined for Prince to commit such music to officialdom. So far they have had but one success: 1998's three-disc Crystal Ball. Whilst the thirty song collection yielded the outstanding "Crucial", "Acknowledge Me", and "Calhoun Square", amongst others, for many, the release was a missed opportunity. Uptown Magazine described the set as a "warts and all" collection that felt rushed, with many songs being remixes of existing material or having been previously released on other occasions. All in all, had they been choosing, many tracks would have been left aside by fans in favour of the countless circulating gems of higher quality. The calls for another Crystal Ball volume have been relentless ever since.

“From a fan's viewpoint, the state of Prince's archive is a travesty", said ex-manager Alan Leeds in an interview on fansite Prince.org. Whilst Leeds referred then to the state of Prince’s officially released material, the same could be said of his unreleased output, which has yet to be given the truly royal treatment it deserves. Says Susan Rogers, an engineer with Prince during his 80s heyday, "…he is an important figure in American music and with that comes (somewhat of) a responsibility to provide a record of his artistic progress. Artistic license means he can release whatever he wants of his own intellectual property but I think that when a true genius comes along, society benefits from seeing what he or she produced". So far, Prince's vault music has not received this respect.

The catch is this: Crystal Ball II would be better off without Prince's involvement. The task of producing a set worthy of Prince's legendary unreleased catalogue would be a herculanean task. If hundreds of vault tracks are known, then thousands must exist; all of which must be heard in order to search to compile a worthy set. With the speed Prince is known to work at, such a task would surely stretch his patience, compromising the final product. Furthermore, an outsider with an intimate knowledge of Prince's career, such as Per Neilsen of Uptown Magazine, would undoubtedly have a better idea of the market’s, in this case the fans’, tastes. An expert’s song choices would lack the interference of personal attachment that might make a track meaningful to the artist but not to the listener.

A decision to hand over the keys of the vault to such a project would be unprecedented surrender of the artistic control Prince's career shows he so craves. Nonetheless, there remains the chance that, with or without his full involvement, another Crystal Ball volume might see the light of day. The staggering scope of Prince's contribution to popular music culture and the towering achievement of his output, released and unreleased, surely deserves such a musical monument. The lack of such a set already in existence is surely one of music’s most glaring omissions.

[Source: Yours truly]



Little long winded to just to say Per Nilsen or some other long time Prince music collector should put together the tracklist for CBII.

In any event unless there was group of un-released songs made available for download by fans I don't really like this idea. Why? Because all fans don't like the same things.

For instance I could really do without dreck like "When Doves Scream" and "All My Dreams"...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later.
-Miles Davis-
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Reply #15 posted 09/04/06 9:55am

gubbins4ever

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Ifsixwuz9 said:

Little long winded to just to say Per Nilsen or some other long time Prince music collector should put together the tracklist for CBII.

In any event unless there was group of un-released songs made available for download by fans I don't really like this idea. Why? Because all fans don't like the same things.

For instance I could really do without dreck like "When Doves Scream" and "All My Dreams"...


"All My Dreams" is dreck? Oh dear. I think a few people might disagree with you there. Or rather, pretty much everyone.

I'm not sure about the strength of your argument against a vault compilation. Not all fans like the same thing? Of course not, but that applies to every album released. However, if a large vault set was released then chances are there would be a worthwhile amount in there for everybody.

The most compelling argument for a vault release is the popularity of this type of release nowadays. Countless unreleased sets and previously unreleased songs on rereleased albums are unleashed unto the public all the time. If it works for the other hundreds of bands and artists out there then it certainly would work for Prince
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Reply #16 posted 09/04/06 10:09am

sosgemini

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gubbins4ever said:



"All My Dreams" is dreck? Oh dear. I think a few people might disagree with you there. Or rather, pretty much everyone.




lol
Space for sale...
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Reply #17 posted 09/04/06 4:29pm

ElCapitan

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gubbins4ever said:



"All My Dreams" is dreck? Oh dear. I think a few people might disagree with you there. Or rather, pretty much everyone.



Might not be "dreck", but it is waaaaay overrated, imho.
"What kind of fuck ending is that?"
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Reply #18 posted 09/05/06 4:09pm

Ifsixwuz9

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gubbins4ever said:

Ifsixwuz9 said:

Little long winded to just to say Per Nilsen or some other long time Prince music collector should put together the tracklist for CBII.

In any event unless there was group of un-released songs made available for download by fans I don't really like this idea. Why? Because all fans don't like the same things.

For instance I could really do without dreck like "When Doves Scream" and "All My Dreams"...


"All My Dreams" is dreck? Oh dear. I think a few people might disagree with you there. Or rather, pretty much everyone.

I'm not sure about the strength of your argument against a vault compilation. Not all fans like the same thing? Of course not, but that applies to every album released. However, if a large vault set was released then chances are there would be a worthwhile amount in there for everybody.

The most compelling argument for a vault release is the popularity of this type of release nowadays. Countless unreleased sets and previously unreleased songs on rereleased albums are unleashed unto the public all the time. If it works for the other hundreds of bands and artists out there then it certainly would work for Prince



Contrary to what you believe everybody does not like "All My Dreams". lol It's been discussed here several times and on any given day depending on whose on line and participating in the thread the vote can go either way. As to the rest of your response ... well that be be said of the first CB and there were/are plenty of people who didn't like what was on it.
[Edited 9/7/06 14:05pm]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'll play it first and tell you what it is later.
-Miles Davis-
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Reply #19 posted 09/05/06 4:13pm

sitruk7

ElCapitan said:

gubbins4ever said:



"All My Dreams" is dreck? Oh dear. I think a few people might disagree with you there. Or rather, pretty much everyone.



Might not be "dreck", but it is waaaaay overrated, imho.
I agree but it still remains one of Prince's most popular unreleased songs.If Prince did release an entire album of well known outtakes, you're bound to hear something on it that you'll dig alot!
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Reply #20 posted 09/06/06 2:08pm

Paisley4u

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sitruk7 said:

ElCapitan said:



Might not be "dreck", but it is waaaaay overrated, imho.
I agree but it still remains one of Prince's most popular unreleased songs.If Prince did release an entire album of well known outtakes, you're bound to hear something on it that you'll dig alot!

Thanx 2 this thread I started looking 4 this song and I've just heard it 4 the first time.I think a lot off people like it because it sounds as the Prince most of us got 2 know when we first heard him.
This must be recorded around 84-85,not??

Anyone knows when Rebirth of the flesh was recorded?
[Edited 9/6/06 14:10pm]
Love4oneanother
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Reply #21 posted 09/06/06 3:44pm

sacredwarrior

gubbins4ever said:

To realise music’s full potential is a process of digging through layers. Behind every album and song, there exists a treasure trove of work in progress alternate versions, extended remixes, and unreleased songs that never reached the public ear. Alongside the music there is the story of the music's creator(s), the musicians they played with, what inspired the songwriting, and the decisions they made on the road to the finished product. All of this brings new understanding and appreciation to output already released. In the same way that the DVD era of bonus materials has invited film enthusiasts into a deeper world of movie discovery, so can vault material do the same for music fans.

The benefit to fans and music-lovers alike that would arise out of vault music finding the light of day could barely be greater than with the work of one of popular culture's most prestigious musical legends: Prince. For almost thirty years, hundreds of unauthorised 'releases', the inevitable lost children of Prince's prolific output, have intrigued music diehards. Such underground recordings offer a more complete picture of Prince's career. Many songs, such as "Make It Through The Storm", shared the same recording sessions as their released counterparts; others, like the studio "Days Of Wild", were dropped from tracklists on prerelease album configurations; and there are countless alternative versions and live-only tracks, such as the extended and legendary "Computer Blue" and Purple Rain sendup "When Doves Scream". Not only has many a fan debate ensued over how many unreleased gems, such as "In All My Dreams", are superior to those officially available, but entire unreleased albums like Dream Factory jostle for position on favourite lists. Of course, many more songs and albums, such as Camille, The Dawn, and Roadhouse Garden, are known by name only.

Fans have long pined for Prince to commit such music to officialdom. So far they have had but one success: 1998's three-disc Crystal Ball. Whilst the thirty song collection yielded the outstanding "Crucial", "Acknowledge Me", and "Calhoun Square", amongst others, for many, the release was a missed opportunity. Uptown Magazine described the set as a "warts and all" collection that felt rushed, with many songs being remixes of existing material or having been previously released on other occasions. All in all, had they been choosing, many tracks would have been left aside by fans in favour of the countless circulating gems of higher quality. The calls for another Crystal Ball volume have been relentless ever since.

“From a fan's viewpoint, the state of Prince's archive is a travesty", said ex-manager Alan Leeds in an interview on fansite Prince.org. Whilst Leeds referred then to the state of Prince’s officially released material, the same could be said of his unreleased output, which has yet to be given the truly royal treatment it deserves. Says Susan Rogers, an engineer with Prince during his 80s heyday, "…he is an important figure in American music and with that comes (somewhat of) a responsibility to provide a record of his artistic progress. Artistic license means he can release whatever he wants of his own intellectual property but I think that when a true genius comes along, society benefits from seeing what he or she produced". So far, Prince's vault music has not received this respect.

The catch is this: Crystal Ball II would be better off without Prince's involvement. The task of producing a set worthy of Prince's legendary unreleased catalogue would be a herculanean task. If hundreds of vault tracks are known, then thousands must exist; all of which must be heard in order to search to compile a worthy set. With the speed Prince is known to work at, such a task would surely stretch his patience, compromising the final product. Furthermore, an outsider with an intimate knowledge of Prince's career, such as Per Neilsen of Uptown Magazine, would undoubtedly have a better idea of the market’s, in this case the fans’, tastes. An expert’s song choices would lack the interference of personal attachment that might make a track meaningful to the artist but not to the listener.

A decision to hand over the keys of the vault to such a project would be unprecedented surrender of the artistic control Prince's career shows he so craves. Nonetheless, there remains the chance that, with or without his full involvement, another Crystal Ball volume might see the light of day. The staggering scope of Prince's contribution to popular music culture and the towering achievement of his output, released and unreleased, surely deserves such a musical monument. The lack of such a set already in existence is surely one of music’s most glaring omissions.

[Source: Yours truly]



i agree he needs to open the vault.

ego gets rich keeping secrets.

so unless he wants to go out like a jerk,
he's gunna have to let the doves fly.

i posted this elsewhere but apparently there's joy in repetition. x
" the embassy shut to keep the fools out " - as above, so below.
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Reply #22 posted 09/06/06 5:30pm

sitruk7

Paisley4u said:

sitruk7 said:

A bunch of cool stuff

Thanx 2 this thread I started looking 4 this song and I've just heard it 4 the first time.I think a lot off people like it because it sounds as the Prince most of us got 2 know when we first heard him.
This must be recorded around 84-85,not??

Anyone knows when Rebirth of the flesh was recorded?
[Edited 9/6/06 14:10pm]
1986
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Reply #23 posted 09/07/06 12:19am

ThreadBare

but what if there no longer is a "vault?"
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