but why are you trying to find an excuse for how others react? cant you just accept that some folks arent amused by what they feel is lesser quality work?

i use kate bush as perfect example of an artist who can release an album twenty years after she first appeared that still grabs universal acclaim from her fanbase. and these fans arent "asskissers" either cause The Red Shoe's was panned by much of her fanbase when it was first released...

i just can't buy your theory...expecially after reading some so many reasoned comments on this thread.

First up. Sales figures. Of course they don't tell you how good things are. Duh, that wasn't my point. You were disputing the fact that most people don't like Prince's new stuff as much as the old. The sales figures are a pretty good indication to the contrary. No one other than the hardcore P fans buy his new stuff. Again, the sales figures speak for themselves.Comparing the figures to Dirty Mind is a cheap shot I won't waste time with.

Here in the UK the Musicology tour had zero impact, but even in the States the buzz more than likely made people replay old copies of The Hits rather than pick up the new stuff.

If you want I could bore you with the list of people I've met who all say Prince lost it, but it probably wouldn't get us anywhere.

The fact that you're even disputing that it's the majority view tells me you're in denial. I've heard it said on TV, read it in magazines. Face it, it's the dominant view! I can't even believe anyone would argue such an obvious point.

However, people can rarely articulate why the music hits them differently exactly.

skywalker said:

what you talkin bout willis? folks have articulated very nicely within this very thread.

sosgemini said:

What I mean is this: Yes, people can say things like "Because of changing his faith Prince's writing went to shit." However people rarely admit that they are in a different place than they were when Prince was new to them. Hearing Prince when you are 6th grader is different than hearing Prince as a 36 year old. Lost of thing in life change based on experience and such. People seem to dismiss this and seem to find it easier to speculate on things like Prince's personal problems (which none at this site really know)affecting his music. Think about it. People attribute their appreciation of art only to the art without considering themselves.
[Edited 8/13/06 14:44pm]

In my opinion, the music he's done over the last 10 years is just as good as it was during the other years. Just because he's not getting any radio play doesn't mean a thing.Too much is expected out of Prince by a lot of people. With each new album he's always expected to come out with this brand new cutting edge sound that no ones ever done before, Sell 100 million albums, Be played on the radio again and be as popular as he was back in the Purple Rain era. It's NOT going to happen.

In my opinion, the music he's done over the last 10 years is just as good as it was during the other years. Just because he's not getting any radio play doesn't mean a thing.Too much is expected out of Prince by a lot of people. With each new album he's always expected to come out with this brand new cutting edge sound that no ones ever done before, Sell 100 million albums, Be played on the radio again and be as popular as he was back in the Purple Rain era. It's NOT going to happen.

why cant we just take folks for their word?

I think that often we can. There are a lot of intelligent people at this site.

However, there are a lot of folks often proclaim their highly subjective opinions as fact. It is not an assumed fact that "orgers dislike Prince's music in the last 10 years". However, I've got people trying to convince me that the entire UK thinks Prince sucks shit. It's the internet. People are gonna bitch and moan about how they see things and there viewpoint--that doesn't make it the truth. One person's Dirty Mind is another person's 3121.
[Edited 8/13/06 17:18pm]

hey, im all for clarifying the difference between fact and opinion but you cant discredit someone's opinion by physcologically analyzing them.

because prince went from young to very very old.


[Edited 8/12/06 1:53am]

It's not about psychoanalyzing anybody. It's hoping that people will give a more interesting answer than the usual " it's a fact that it is shit because I don't like it."

skywalker said:

folks have been giving interesting, meaningful and thought out answers...re-read some of the comments...

(with that being said...do orgers really dislike prince's music? i liked this thread better when i thought it was just a hypothetical question and not a declaration...)
[Edited 8/13/06 21:59pm]

sosgemini said:

It would be more interesting to Poll the Orgers - See what majority and minority there are that fit the Question? Reasons?

1. We all grow up n different Media environments, Musical tastes do tend to shift through different Generations.

2. People do change as they grow older and there tastes change with them. This isn't a bad thing, I still love Prince's work, but just not as enthusiastic as 10+ years ago.

3. When something is "New" it is always exciting, but then can become familiar and eventually mediocre. Again not bad, just the way things go.

So, do all the Long termers really think Prince sucked over the last 10 years? Do all the younger Orgers enjoy the last 10 years more purely because they are younger and "Fresher" with Princes Music?

It is all individual, I love Emancipation, yet a lot of Folk here don't. I don't enjoy the Black Album, but a lot of People here do etc.

....And then with Graffitti Bridge ...it all stopped.

The innovation, the pushing limits.
Whatever happened that made him just completely stop like that,...would be interesting to know.





.

You are missing my point. Look at the US sales for any Prince album other than Purple Rain, BAtman, and Diamonds and Pearls. They aren't stellar numbers. They are between 500,000 to 2 million mostly. The point is that PRINCE's hardcore fans are usually the ones historically bought his albums. Hell, you think Dirty Mind's sales are a cheap shot? Why? Look at his US sales for Parade. The fact is Prince is and was rarely a blockbuster album seller and his sales are primarily his fanbase. If his albums are promoted and hyped more-they sell more. Your indicator is poor. How many copies did Come or The Gold Experience sell? Great albums--sales mean nothing.


And I could bore you with a list of people I've met who became fans between 1996 and now. Who cares? What does that prove? People are different.



TV and magazines? Wow. Nothing like having your own mind. When I flip on the TV I see Prince on American Idol, The Grammy's, The Superbowl, The Tonight Show, and Good Morning America. When I open a magazine I see Prince mentioned at least once in every new issue of Rolling Stone--sometimes with a picture,. Also, I see him in the newest GQ being hailed as the best ever. That being said, I don't need to hear it on TV or read it. To me, Prince has still got it. Sorry if he doesn't do it for you.

What I am saying is that it isn't the dominant view. It's only your view. It's how you see things. Maybe it's how the UK sees things, but Prince has been hotter here in the US than he has been since the early 90's. He is back from the wilderness. Maybe you should pick up a copy of the new USA GQ. Its's not just something I've heard on TV. That's experience. Maybe if you'd been at the Musicology Tour you'd understand.

Don't get me wrong, I love my brothers in the UK, but you have to remember that it took you all until 1986 to get hip to Prince. He didn't even hit #1 until 1994. We see things different that's all.

[Edited 8/13/06 14:15pm]

HERE IS YOUR ANSWER....

Prince's music suffer's today as a result of a few things.

1. More than ANYTHING... the genre.
The funk/rock music hybrid he uniquely shaped,.. is restrictive by virtue of it being the only musical style he basically works in.
I mean really man,...how many funk rock jams can one write over a 28 year period,...year after year after year.....before that shit gets old hat??
There's more to music than funk and rock!!!
Is he truly a musician?.....Or a funk/rock musician??


2. Prince's older work had the ability to walk the line between being commerically exciting and being truly different from anything else at the time.
Not only musically,...but visually and themeatically he was constantly pushing the envelope of what could be SUCCESSFULLY done in pop music.
Not just in a bussiness sense but in an artistic sense as well.
Like Madonna,..his defining characteristic was to be constantly provoking listeners and watchers.
But unlike her,..he was doing it "musically" as well.


3. Something happenned...beginning with Grafitti Bridge...where he just did a COMPLETE about face.
For example,...what most people have yet to appreciate is the ground breaking work with song arranging he was doing during the LoveSexy era....ending with the Batman soundtrack. The freeform, improvisational-like techniques he was using to actually construct the songs themselves were were like NOTHING in pop music before him or since.
Batdance is a perfect example of this,...there has NEVER been a top 10 song like it in pop music ever. Changing tempos and rythms 3 difeerent times in the same song,..sporadic sounds and phrases.
As with Lovesexy and the Black Album,..he was not merely writing songs,...he was taking those melodies and grooves and rythms and attempting to reshape them in a completeley different form.



....And then with Graffitti Bridge ...it all stopped.

The innovation, the pushing limits.
Whatever happened that made him just completely stop like that,...would be interesting to know.





.
[Edited 8/13/06 18:04pm]

It would be more interesting to Poll the Orgers - See what majority and minority there are that fit the Question? Reasons?

1. We all grow up n different Media environments, Musical tastes do tend to shift through different Generations.

2. People do change as they grow older and there tastes change with them. This isn't a bad thing, I still love Prince's work, but just not as enthusiastic as 10+ years ago.

3. When something is "New" it is always exciting, but then can become familiar and eventually mediocre. Again not bad, just the way things go.

So, do all the Long termers really think Prince sucked over the last 10 years? Do all the younger Orgers enjoy the last 10 years more purely because they are younger and "Fresher" with Princes Music?

It is all individual, I love Emancipation, yet a lot of Folk here don't. I don't enjoy the Black Album, but a lot of People here do etc.

skywalker said:

I only use these type of songs as examples, because you say that Lolita represents Prince falling off. However, I claim that Lolita hearkens back to old school early 80's Prince/The Time type jams--not a decline in artistry.

because it lost a lot of it's depth in layering and little ideas floating in and out of the songs, that real prince magic is gone,
replaced with simply strong but formulaic compositions. prince is starting to sound more and more like any regular good
musician with regular good tunes. his tunes simply aren't really special anymore. in the past 10 years there hasn't been
a single "Anna Stesia" or "Crystal Ball" or "Computer Blue", "Interactive", "Joy In Repetition" or "Gett Off".

there are a handfull of extremely good songs, almost up to par with anything on his early releases. but they are far, far
outnumbered by average, repetative and forgettable tunes.

(with that being said...do orgers really dislike prince's music? i liked this thread better when i thought it was just a hypothetical question and not a declaration...)

It would be more interesting to Poll the Orgers - See what majority and minority there are that fit the Question? Reasons?

1. We all grow up n different Media environments, Musical tastes do tend to shift through different Generations.

2. People do change as they grow older and there tastes change with them. This isn't a bad thing, I still love Prince's work, but just not as enthusiastic as 10+ years ago.

3. When something is "New" it is always exciting, but then can become familiar and eventually mediocre. Again not bad, just the way things go.

So, do all the Long termers really think Prince sucked over the last 10 years? Do all the younger Orgers enjoy the last 10 years more purely because they are younger and "Fresher" with Princes Music?

It is all individual, I love Emancipation, yet a lot of Folk here don't. I don't enjoy the Black Album, but a lot of People here do etc.

truth is, some here seem to be a lot more attached to prince himself, and what they perceive to be changes in his attitude than the actual music... which is open to interpretation.

suffice to say, i studied the subject of spiritual themes in prince's music for my masters in civilization and for me it's a case of "the more they change, they more they stay the same..." might be that the fans have changed more than prince, in some cases.

This is the downside of the internet. You often get in pointless arguments with people who keep forgetting what the argument is and throw up a dozen red herrings to try and cloud the issue.

First of all, sales. You're not seriously trying to argue that NPS, Rave, and TRC sold as well as his 80s albums are you?

The bottom line is if you compiled a list of the best selling albums of his career around the world there wouldn't be any from the last 10 years in the Top 5 or even the top 10.

The Musicology figures were boosted by Prince's little scam with the concert tickets.

Now for your red herrings. Trying to say that this has got something to do with my being from the UK is yet another cop out of yours. That has nothing to do with it. As for him being in magazines and on TV a lot. Again, you miss the point.

We're talking about the perception that he's lost it artisically, not how much exposure he's getting. Those are different issues. Do try and keep up. As for my "having a mind of my own", another red herring. Reading negative things about his current output doesn't affect my view.

My own fucking ears affect my view!

The Musicology Tour; another red herring. The Rolling Stones create a massive buzz every time they tour. That doesn't mean people give a damn about their latest albums.