And I feel differently. I believe that when you strip away all the superficial bullshit, Prince, as an artist, is fundamentally the same as he always has been. Basically, he dances to his own beat. He does whatever he wants whether people like it or not. As a pop artist,he has a sense of what is commercial and he often, as he's done from day one, incorporates trendy sounds into his own brand of music.
Nowadays people view Prince's art as having changed since 199whatever.


What I am saying is that some fans always think Prince "changed for the worse" at some point in his career:

There is always a faction of Prince fans who would say--Prince really changed in 1980 with Dirty Mind he was no longer the cutesy soul kid in "Right On!" magazine. Prince really changed in 1985 when he went psychadelic-he changed his sound and pulled back those MPLS synths. Some bemoan the fact thatPrince changed in 1988 when he when all spiritual and etheral. Some bitched when Prince changed in 1990/91 when he went all hip hop with the NPG. And so on and so on.

You can look at almost any point at Prince's career and say he changed something. Hell, 10 years ago, somed people liked Prince's music 10 years prior better. Whether it is for the worse is up to you. I think Prince is, artistically, his core is the same. He has one foot planted in the commercial/pop and one foot planted in the artistic avant purple. He does things the Prince way.

Now to answer your question: I generally prefer his music before 1996. However, that is because there is a lot more music to choose from. It's the bulk of his catalog. So it's a lopsided question to start with. I don't think Prince has suffered artistically in those 10 years. Like always he ebbs and flows. Some is good some not as.....
[Edited 8/12/06 18:07pm]

Generic.

xplnyrslf said:

Coz he went shit.

He's become too insulated, and doesn't have enough outside musical influences.

langebleu said:

Yeah right.....NOT UP TO PAR???... ie disappointed...covers the gamut...

MickG said:

Are you saying his current spiritual direction, (JW) is a reason he's less creative?

Heiress said:

No one's quitting the org. Plato's "Allegory Of The Cave": you can be the lone dissenting voice and still be right. Everyone has a ligit opinion.( out of 22 orgers, myself and only 2 others like P's stuff best the past 10 years.)
[Edited 8/12/06 21:26pm]

sacredwarrior said:

Could ya knock it down to your TOP one or two?

skywalker said:

Define fundamentally.
[Edited 8/12/06 21:27pm]

Main Entry: fun·da·men·tal
Function: adjective

1 a : serving as an original or generating source

2 a : of or relating to essential structure, function, or facts

3 : of, relating to, or produced by the lowest component of a complex vibration

4 : of central importance

5 : belonging to one's innate or ingrained characteristics : DEEP-ROOTED
synonym see ESSENTIAL

- fun·da·men·tal·ly /-t&l-E/ adverb


The words of another can better articulate the point I am trying to make. Here is a link to an article by Twin Cities writer Jim Walsh best sums up what I am trying to express-

http://www.princelyrics.c...article=37

Let me know what you think.

I've enjoyed the last 10 years, but I'm just 21 so I don't have
the nostalgia that many older orgers do

skywalker said:

You're not going to like what I think.

Prince is NOT fundamentally the same he's always been. He consistantly has religious references in his music throughout the yrs, no one disputes that. You equate his past and current spirituality with: his life hasn't changed. Explain how deaths in the family, marriage, divorce, financial haggling...is "superficial BS."
I read the article by Jim Walsh. You're not going to like what I think here, either;
.....I see cult aspects to Prince and his spirituality. I'm sure you just loved the Larry King interview. It made me SICK. One's relationship with God does not require a spiritual advisor at all times.

I wrote a lengthy response on another forum regarding this matter (how to deter the hubby's Ashramite ex-wife from using the backyard pool) It got edited. Brian Wilson, anybody?
[Edited 8/12/06 22:44pm]

skywalker said:

Needless to say I completely disagree with most of that. As for the associated artists point it only strengthens my argument. In his heyday he not only released great albums every year, but released pretty solid albums with a host of others. He was drawing from a well that took a long time to go dry. Now when he goes fishing he settles for what he can get. As for Lolita harkening back to his old jams. Well of course it does, but the problem is it's not as good, and I think that's the majority view.

xplnyrslf said:

sure.

he's a cockhead. God takes talent away from people like that .

xplnyrslf said:

xplnyrslf said:

it's kind of common, tho, that people copy-cat another for a while before finding their own unique understandings.

i don't really see the same thing happening with prince, tho.

ingela said:

my answer was to this: Majority of orgers think Prince's music in the past 10 years isn't "up to par?" In one brief sentence, state why.

it just doesnt have the same oommmph after repeated listening...theres arent odd/interesting "what does it all mean" lyrics for me to re-discover...there arent subtle musical arrangements that the ear picks up on a few years down the road...in its place is clutured overlayered sounds that become a bore after repeatedly listening...

and most of all, gone is the fun. fury was exciting and fun on SNL...and thats all that is missing from the cd version. in contrast, 1999 is alive on record...same with I Would Die For You...you feel the energy. Same for Endorphinmachine and Get Off.

So, its not about a change in style...its not about nostalgia (with me at least)...its just about a lack of oommmph.

It's fine. Your opinion is yours to have.



No, deaths in the family, marriage, divorce, financial haggling is NOT superficial BS. They are the type of issues that all humans have to deal with. However, they are issues Prince probably had to deal with ever since he was a kid. It's not like Prince had to deal with the problems of life only in the last 10 years. Everybody has them all the time- even Prince.

Furthermore, you can only speculate how things like family deaths, divorce, etc. truly affect Prince. Hell, you could have speculated on that since Prince's very 1st album. The point is this: You don't like Prince's newer music-that's fine. However, pretending to know why Prince is "different" than he used to be is really just made up speculation and fantasy on your part. I maintain my claim, Prince is fundamentally the same dude.



Again, your opinion is yours to have. You don't have to convince me of anything. It seems like you have real hang ups about Prince's "spirituality" and how other people should relate to their god. If the Larry King interview truly"made you sick" then perhaps you are a little bit too invested in Prince to begin with. As long as he keeps making songs like "3121" I'll be fine.

[Edited 8/13/06 9:59am]

That's fine. Opinions aren't facts. I can't prove anything to you, I can only let you know how I feel and how I see things. Who's purple world is more happy? The person who thinks Prince has lost it forever, or the person who actually still digs his current output? Call me Naive or without taste, but Prince still does it for me. Maybe we dug him for different reasosn. I dunno.


Listen, you asked me for a song worse than "Lolita" in the 80's. Vanity, Apollonia, Sheila, and even Morris and company released songs that were kinda shitty in the 80's. If you wanna say that The Time's "after hi school" is better than "lolita" that's fine. I think Prince made worse songs than Lolita in the 80's "The Arms of Orion" is one of them.


Pure speculation on your part. Unless you have real insight to Prince's artistic process.



Unless you did a worldwide survey it's not a majority view--just your view. It might be the view of the majority of us Prince nerds at the org, but that's still not a "majority view" .

Ours is a viewpoint that is usually overanalytical, pessimistic, and snobbish when it comes to Prince. I said it before. This is a website where people sometimes get scoffed at if they call Purple Rain their favorite album instead of some bootleg.

Believe it or not, that there is a chance not everyone sees things the same way you do.
[Edited 8/13/06 10:06am]

who let aerogram and wellbeyond back up in here?

skywalker said:

Trust me on this! I have bumped into people from all walks of life over the last 7 or 8 years who all say the same thing. Prince has lost it. The fact is it's only Prince nerds who don't think that. For godsakes the sales figures alone can tell you that!
Let me give you a great example. My own dear mother. Never gave a fuck about Prince in the 80s or 90s. Two years ago stumbles on a copy of PR in Asda for 3 pounds (the pound symbol is busted on my computer!). Buys it and fucking loves it. Then she buys the Prince album; really enjoys it. Then that inevitable moment comes when she sees Emancipation, a triple album at a rock bottom price. "Great", she thinks. Do you really need me to tell you the rest? Not only did she hate it, but songs like Sex In The Summer have dampened her enthusiasm for him overall. I had to highlight the songs like The Holy River on the album which are actually good, just to make her see he hadn't totally lost it. She has no nostalgic feelings for his older stuff. She just responded to what she heard . I have never met anyone in the real world that didn't feel this way. Only on the org.

Prince became a slave to the studio. Over-production, being too close to the source, with too many yay-sayers.

Paisley Park killed the music with over-production.

That, and of course The Ego.

Yeah, like in 2004 during the Musiclogy Tour right? When Prince was on the cover of he Rolling Stone? Oh wait you are talking popular opinion--it must be true. What is true is different for everybody.




Well, there must be a lot of Prince nerds in the world huh?
Do me a favor. Look up the USA sales figures for Dirty Mind for the year 1980. Sale figures don't mean shit. Ask Ashlee Simpson. Hell, Wham! sold more album that Prince in 1985. Does that mean Wham! is better?



Well, you mother must be a barometer for Prince fans around the world. You just said that you "bumped into people form all walks of life" who think Prince has lost it and then you use you own mom as an example. How hip and worldly of you.




Again, good for your mom. My mom thinks Emancipation is Prince's best ever. What does that prove? Absolutely nothing.



Well, I am sorry for you. I have met people outside of the org who like Prince right at this very moment. That being said, what other people think really shouldn't taint your opinion of Prince.

You are the one still bitchin' to me about an artist you think lost it 10 years ago. I am the one talking to you about the artist who put out my favorite album of the year.

Call me naive or without taste. There is is really no way to make your opinion a fact. I am sorry that you dislike Prince's output from the last 10 years.
[Edited 8/13/06 11:03am]

langebleu said:

I think that sums me up somewhat - Although, I don't dislike the music, I don't enjoy all of it as much as I did previous to the 10 years. However I am also getting older, so maybe that has something to do with it. We all change a little as we knock up the years and I do find that even today I don't listen to as much music as I used to. I even have reduced how many CD's I play in my Car !!

Exactly. That's all I am saying. Prince has changed? Hell, the world has changed, we all have changed.

I just find it amazing that people never think that they are even partly responsible for how new music (Prince's and otherwise) hits them. Life experience changes how you hear and view things. That's why grandpas around the world start off sentences with "Back in my day.....".
[Edited 8/13/06 11:29am]

skywalker said:

but why are you trying to find an excuse for how others react? cant you just accept that some folks arent amused by what they feel is lesser quality work?

i use kate bush as perfect example of an artist who can release an album twenty years after she first appeared that still grabs universal acclaim from her fanbase. and these fans arent "asskissers" either cause The Red Shoe's was panned by much of her fanbase when it was first released...

i just can't buy your theory...expecially after reading some so many reasoned comments on this thread.

skywalker said:

First up. Sales figures. Of course they don't tell you how good things are. Duh, that wasn't my point. You were disputing the fact that most people don't like Prince's new stuff as much as the old. The sales figures are a pretty good indication to the contrary. No one other than the hardcore P fans buy his new stuff. Again, the sales figures speak for themselves.Comparing the figures to Dirty Mind is a cheap shot I won't waste time with.
Here in the UK the Musicology tour had zero impact, but even in the States the buzz more than likely made people replay old copies of The Hits rather than pick up the new stuff.
If you want I could bore you with the list of people I've met who all say Prince lost it, but it probably wouldn't get us anywhere. The fact that you're even disputing that it's the majority view tells me you're in denial. I've heard it said on TV, read it in magazines. Face it, it's the dominant view! I can't even believe anyone would argue such an obvious point.

He started listening to critics. This started as far back as "The Black Album" in 1987. It was first intended to silence his critics and then withdrawn so that it too couldn't be criticised... It's telling that his first blatant diss-song, "Bob George" is included on this album.

The Lovesexy tour wasn't a sell-out in the U.S., which must have been another wound to his ego. It isn't surprising that he went for the uber-commercial 'Batman' project with the gusto that he did.

I think on reflection, the Batman album gave him (and Warner Bros.) a false-sense of security. The movie's songs could have been recorded by Milli Vanilli and an album would have sold in millions - such was the hype surrounding the film.

I'd just like to add that "The Black Album", Lovesexy and Batman are all great albums.

The rot started with Graffiti Bridge. The moment I heard him rap on 'The Latest Fashion', I knew the party was over. Whenever he'd "rapped" in the past it had always been in a conversational drone or a stylised mocking tone. Now he was rhyming with the sing-song inflection of every other rap act in the charts at that time. It was like watching your father trying to dance at a wedding... The whole album is embarrassing (as a whole) with it's faux hip-hop stylings and sugary-sweet production. He was trying to be "hip" instead of continuing to walk his own path.

I just stick around now, because I know there'll always be at least three standout tracks on most albums. Having said that, 3121 was a major disappointment after Musicology, with no real standout track whatsoever. I'd rather listen to Newpower Soul than 3121.

xplnyrslf said:

no just less spiritual. the creative part is on him. the spiritual part is about god.