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PrintableI dig both but comparing Rick 2 Prince is a bit silly. | |
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I agree. Here's the deal; Both artists came out with their debut albums in 1978. When u compare those two albums, Rick's album makes P's look like a child put that together. That's how more advanced Rick's first album was over P's. U have to remember Rick had 2 bonafide hit singles off of that album in "You and I" and "Mary Jane". Just the overall songwriting and production and even more crucial, Rick's VISION. P, at that stage, wasn't sure what the fuck he wanted to do. He just knew he could sing in falsetto and play all of his own instruments. He didn't get his shit together untill his second album and really, he didn't get a clear vision of his image untill Dirty Mind. Again, in 81, when both men released albums, look at those two albums. P's Controversy, which was cool, BUT look at Rick's "Street Songs". Again, as much as I adore the song "Controversy", that album can't hold a candle to "Street Songs". Rick already had his style down pat where as P was still defining his. It wouldn't be untill P's album 1999, which was brilliant, when P started to put some distance between him and Rick. Rick wasn't the musician P is nor is Rick nearly as innovative. That showed as clear as day on the 1999 album. I think that album scared the shit out of Rick cuz he simply knew he couldn't fuck with that. EVER.
Exactly. "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: I agree. Here's the deal; Both artists came out with their debut albums in 1978. When u compare those two albums, Rick's album makes P's look like a child put that together. That's how more advanced Rick's first album was over P's. U have to remember Rick had 2 bonafide hit singles off of that album in "You and I" and "Mary Jane". Just the overall songwriting and production and even more crucial, Rick's VISION. P, at that stage, wasn't sure what the fuck he wanted to do. He just knew he could sing in falsetto and play all of his own instruments. He didn't get his shit together untill his second album and really, he didn't get a clear vision of his image untill Dirty Mind. Again, in 81, when both men released albums, look at those two albums. P's Controversy, which was cool, BUT look at Rick's "Street Songs". Again, as much as I adore the song "Controversy", that album can't hold a candle to "Street Songs". Rick already had his style down pat where as P was still defining his. It wouldn't be untill P's album 1999, which was brilliant, when P started to put some distance between him and Rick. Rick wasn't the musician P is nor is Rick nearly as innovative. That showed as clear as day on the 1999 album. I think that album scared the shit out of Rick cuz he simply knew he couldn't fuck with that. EVER.
Exactly. oops... I didn't mean to click. sorry.... But actually, I agree up until the part about Rick being scared. It's hard to know what he thought. I love them both, for different reasons. Lynn [Edited 7/26/06 13:17pm] "Love Hurts. Your lies, they cut me. Now your words don't mean a thing. I don't give a damn if you ever loved me..." -Cher, "Woman's World" | |
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vainandy said: xplnyrslf said:
Let's review this; Rick admitted to having a coke habit of $7,000/week for 5 years. Held hostage one woman, with the help of his girlfriend, and used her as a sex slave..held another for 20 hours under similar circumstances..autopsy showed Xanax, Valium, Vicodin, Methamphetamine, and Cocaine And all this has what to do with his music? Hell, some of his best music was made when he was high as hell. I remember in 1985 when he released "Glow", he told "Right On" magazine that he was drug free. When I heard the album, I said "Get this man some damn drugs!" 
Wrong. 59. I liked "Super Freak" and that era.
Typical pop fan's answer...."I like Super Freak and that era". That's like someone saying about Prince....."I like Purple Rain and that era". Rick came out the same year as Prince and had an album a year (two in 1979) until 1988, with the exception of 1987. It was time for Rick to quit then anyway because funk was dying during the late 1980s (thanks a lot Shitney Houston). . . [Edited 7/26/06 6:45am] Rick James' age was actually 56 when he died. The headlines, arrests, etc. superceeded his earlier successful career. Think about the music he COULD have continued to do, had he not suffered drug addiction. Whether you understand it or not, 56 is pretty young to die. | |
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vainandy said: xplnyrslf said:
Let's review this; Rick admitted to having a coke habit of $7,000/week for 5 years. Held hostage one woman, with the help of his girlfriend, and used her as a sex slave..held another for 20 hours under similar circumstances..autopsy showed Xanax, Valium, Vicodin, Methamphetamine, and Cocaine And all this has what to do with his music? Hell, some of his best music was made when he was high as hell. I remember in 1985 when he released "Glow", he told "Right On" magazine that he was drug free. When I heard the album, I said "Get this man some damn drugs!"
Wrong. 59. I liked "Super Freak" and that era.
Typical pop fan's answer...."I like Super Freak and that era". That's like someone saying about Prince....."I like Purple Rain and that era". Rick came out the same year as Prince and had an album a year (two in 1979) until 1988, with the exception of 1987. It was time for Rick to quit then anyway because funk was dying during the late 1980s (thanks a lot Shitney Houston). . . [Edited 7/26/06 6:45am] Rick James was actually 56 when he passed away. Unfortunately, the headlines, drug abuse, and lifestyle the latter part of his life, superceeded his ealier successful career. As much as you love RJ, wouldn't you rather see him off substances and making a comeback?? vs. on drugs, making music appealing to you, and deceased? 56 is pretty young to die. | |
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Rhondab said: blackguitaristz said: I agree. Here's the deal; Both artists came out with their debut albums in 1978. When u compare those two albums, Rick's album makes P's look like a child put that together. That's how more advanced Rick's first album was over P's. U have to remember Rick had 2 bonafide hit singles off of that album in "You and I" and "Mary Jane". Just the overall songwriting and production and even more crucial, Rick's VISION. P, at that stage, wasn't sure what the fuck he wanted to do. He just knew he could sing in falsetto and play all of his own instruments. He didn't get his shit together untill his second album and really, he didn't get a clear vision of his image untill Dirty Mind. Again, in 81, when both men released albums, look at those two albums. P's Controversy, which was cool, BUT look at Rick's "Street Songs". Again, as much as I adore the song "Controversy", that album can't hold a candle to "Street Songs". Rick already had his style down pat where as P was still defining his. It wouldn't be untill P's album 1999, which was brilliant, when P started to put some distance between him and Rick. Rick wasn't the musician P is nor is Rick nearly as innovative. That showed as clear as day on the 1999 album. I think that album scared the shit out of Rick cuz he simply knew he couldn't fuck with that. EVER. smart assessment Thank u, my dear. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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skywalker said: BUSTIN OUT OF L 7, LOVE GUN, and the album with him all medeval with a bladed guitar all kick ass! Those 3 albums I just mentioned have propulsive funk tracks that Prince fans would DIE to hear Prince release; Rick James albums have wittier,slyer lyrics than a lot of Prince lyrics. Rick James on record was FUNKIER than Prince. Live & Bootleg-Prince by a mile. No doubt Rick could give Prince a run for his money when it came to the funk. However, Prince could do DMSR one minute, and something like A Case of U the next. That is where and when Prince starts pulling away from Rick James in this race. MMM...Prince does not pull away and here is why. First, let's not deny Rick's range. One-dimensional as someone else said my ass. Rick could go from the serious funk to the tenderest shit in a heartbeat. FEW people, although I'll admit Prince is one, could do that, but the contrast was greater with Rick IMO. Hollywood, Happy, Moonchild, Fire and Desire, Ebony Eyes, When Love Is Gone, Mama's Eyes etc. Rick was a FIRST RATE balladeer. FIRST RATE. A FIRST RATE bassist and songwriter as well. And of course one of the funkiest personalities to emerge in American music. Totally arrogant and self-centered, Rick was a man of his times. Rick was outrageous and relished being a star - not like Prince who shied away from people and was inaccessible. Rick to me epitomized the livin' large 80s. His arrogance set the tone for hip-hop. I remember back around 1990 or 1991 Ed and Dre on Yo! MTV Raps were interview Ice Cube and the Lynch Mob outside of somebody's truck in South Central LA and Dre asked him what he and the boys were listening to these days, and Cube pulls out 5 or 6 CDs...and they were all Rick backcatalog!! I was like "Hell yeah!!!" See Rick had a lot of influence on hip-hop with his attitude and shit, and of course is probably the 2nd most sampled artist after James. Let us not forget: Rick IS the Mary Jane Girls. That's all him!! Rick is all up in hip-hop, while Prince and the hip-hop community were very distant strangers, at best. 10 years before NWA, Rick was railin' away against police brutality in the black community ("I'd rather be a funk and roll singer...than...the police"), when nobody mainstream wanted to touch subject matter like that. Rick didn't give a fuck. Rick was a fucking trooper. I love the man dearly. I love Prince, too, but if I had to do without one of them's music for the rest of my life, I'd keep my Rick James records. "Love....GUUUUUN.....I got my bang bang bang...sing it everybody....HO!!" Jesus Christ, the rhythm guitar on "Love Gun" is so fucking perfect!! | |
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skywalker said: Rick James has a smaller body of work and comes out looking quite one dimensional stylewise and otherwise when compared to Prince. Maybe in 1982 the comparison would have been more apt. They are in different leagues now. Agreed. Although Slick Rick put out some very good music at his peak. Prince's career pvershadows his by far, R.I.P Slick. | |
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I'll take Prince. ...But then again I would take Prince over anyone.
Rick's Mary Jane is as good as anything ever written though. I also used to love Jefferson Ball - which made my friends think I was weird. ...Fool on the Street, Ghetto Life, Dance Wit me, High on your Love (One mo Hit) ...all classic quality. Maybe it's time for my own Rick James Mix-CD.  | |
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Great competition between them with the girls. Both had opening acts clad in lingerie. Vanity 6 better looking, but I THINK MJ Girls came first. I remember seeing them in L.A. awhile before I heard about Vanity. Live, they were about equal during Street Songs era. Then P dropped 1999 and pulled away for good. Rick has the protge crown with Teena Marie. since Run & Them were saying "Here we go" | |
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darkstranger521 said: skywalker said: No doubt Rick could give Prince a run for his money when it came to the funk. However, Prince could do DMSR one minute, and something like A Case of U the next. That is where and when Prince starts pulling away from Rick James in this race. MMM...Prince does not pull away and here is why. First, let's not deny Rick's range. One-dimensional as someone else said my ass. Rick could go from the serious funk to the tenderest shit in a heartbeat. FEW people, although I'll admit Prince is one, could do that, but the contrast was greater with Rick IMO. Hollywood, Happy, Moonchild, Fire and Desire, Ebony Eyes, When Love Is Gone, Mama's Eyes etc. Rick was a FIRST RATE balladeer. FIRST RATE. A FIRST RATE bassist and songwriter as well. And of course one of the funkiest personalities to emerge in American music. Totally arrogant and self-centered, Rick was a man of his times. Rick was outrageous and relished being a star - not like Prince who shied away from people and was inaccessible. Rick to me epitomized the livin' large 80s. His arrogance set the tone for hip-hop. I remember back around 1990 or 1991 Ed and Dre on Yo! MTV Raps were interview Ice Cube and the Lynch Mob outside of somebody's truck in South Central LA and Dre asked him what he and the boys were listening to these days, and Cube pulls out 5 or 6 CDs...and they were all Rick backcatalog!! I was like "Hell yeah!!!" See Rick had a lot of influence on hip-hop with his attitude and shit, and of course is probably the 2nd most sampled artist after James. Let us not forget: Rick IS the Mary Jane Girls. That's all him!! Rick is all up in hip-hop, while Prince and the hip-hop community were very distant strangers, at best. 10 years before NWA, Rick was railin' away against police brutality in the black community ("I'd rather be a funk and roll singer...than...the police"), when nobody mainstream wanted to touch subject matter like that. Rick didn't give a fuck. Rick was a fucking trooper. I love the man dearly. I love Prince, too, but if I had to do without one of them's music for the rest of my life, I'd keep my Rick James records. "Love....GUUUUUN.....I got my bang bang bang...sing it everybody....HO!!" Jesus Christ, the rhythm guitar on "Love Gun" is so fucking perfect!! Very well put with dead on points. SynthiaRose said "I'm in love with blackguitaristz. Especially when he talks about Hendrix."
nammie "What BGZ says I believe. I have the biggest crush on him." http://ccoshea19.googlepa...ssanctuary http://ccoshea19.googlepages.com | |
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blackguitaristz said:
I agree. Here's the deal; Both artists came out with their debut albums in 1978. When u compare those two albums, Rick's album makes P's look like a child put that together. That's how more advanced Rick's first album was over P's. U have to remember Rick had 2 bonafide hit singles off of that album in "You and I" and "Mary Jane". Just the overall songwriting and production and even more crucial, Rick's VISION. P, at that stage, wasn't sure what the fuck he wanted to do. He just knew he could sing in falsetto and play all of his own instruments. Very true. Rick came out of the gate from day one being Rick....the outrageous look, the attitude, the Stone City Band sound, and songs about controversial things such as drugs and prostitution. Prince really was kind of tame on his first album. Actually, I never knew it existed until 1981 and I got into Prince in 1979. He didn't get his shit together untill his second album
He improved tremendously on the second album. "I Wanna Be Your Lover" was my introduction to Prince on pop radio during the disco era. I converted over to R&B radio after disco's death and they were playing the hell out of "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad" which was very rare for something that sounded that much like rock to get regular R&B airplay at the time. "Sexy Dancer" and "Still Waiting" were getting regular airplay also. and really, he didn't get a clear vision of his image untill Dirty Mind.
This was the year Prince kicked Rick's ass for the first time. Prince had just come off tour with Rick and had seen the attention he got from his outrageousness. I'm sure this is probably what sparked Prince to become outrageous himself since each night became a contest of who could outdo who on stage. Prince released "Dirty Mind" shortly after and Rick came out with "Garden Of Love" which had a great funky single called "Big Time" but the album contained more ballads than Rick usually put on album. He said he wanted to try it and it didn't work so he didn't do it again (thank God). (Although, it was a decent album, just not great). Rick was tame that year and Prince was wild.
Again, in 81, when both men released albums, look at those two albums. P's Controversy, which was cool, BUT look at Rick's "Street Songs". Again, as much as I adore the song "Controversy", that album can't hold a candle to "Street Songs". Rick already had his style down pat where as P was still defining his.
Here's where I disagree a little. I think Prince had already found his style by the time "Controversy" was released. I just saw him continuing what he started with "Dirty Mind". Also, he had The Time's first album out and was also influencing other artists such as Ebonee Webb (who sounded just like Prince, from the falsetto to the synthesizers). I love "Street Songs" but I like "Controversy" a little better. They are both great albums that sound entirely different. Of course, they are made by two men who are very much individuals. It wouldn't be untill P's album 1999, which was brilliant, when P started to put some distance between him and Rick. Rick wasn't the musician P is nor is Rick nearly as innovative. That showed as clear as day on the 1999 album. I think that album scared the shit out of Rick cuz he simply knew he couldn't fuck with that. EVER.
Rick had "Throwin' Down" out the summer before "1999" came out in the fall. It was doing well all summer long and was spilling over into the fall doing well. They were kind of neck and neck that year until the pop world got wind of Prince with "Little Red Corvette". R&B fans were still pairing up into "Rick James fans" and "Prince fans" and arguing like hell over who was better.
Also, Prince came out with Vanity 6 that year which made Rick furious because he had been planning The Mary Jane Girls and Prince beat him to the punch. Prince definately scared the hell out of Rick talentwise but he really started mouthing off this year more than ever because Prince beat him to the punch with those girls. The "Cold Blooded" album seemed to have more drum machines than Rick's earlier albums but it still had the Stone City Band sound. It was kind of like Rick changing with the times. The "Glow" album was the first disappointing album. Lots of it didn't sound like the Stone City Band at all. I thought to myself "OK motherfucker, Prince is gonna whip your ass this year" and then Prince came out about a month or two later with "Around The World In A Day" sounding totally different than anything he had done before also. I could have slapped the shit out of both of them that year.
Anyway, you had a great comparison and I agree with 95% of it. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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the reason why you have to take P over Rick is because P took influences from the best that ever did certain genres/styles, added in his own ability and then pushed it out of this galaxy to a place where you couldn't attain what exactly he was doing. I agree with the assessment that early on when P was funkin Rick could funk rings around him, but once P found his knack that was that for Rick and anybody else that stepped up. Listen to Adore, even if you don't like it you must admit that its the "Pimp My Ride" of ballads. Rick has never made anything comparable to SOTT. Never! When that album dropped, it was like closing the lid on the arguement. Forget it. Rick's music was funky and inspired but like he would put it, it was for real people on the street. Prince opened up so many different boxes and ideas and toyed with so many different musical styles and concepts that you couldn't even figure out what lane he was in let alone race him! P takes the cake, but Rick was a brilliant musician and singer and he was also very innovative for his time, but anyone who can put Strange Relationship and Starfish and Coffee on the same album deserves some serious props... | |
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adorable2 said: the reason why you have to take P over Rick is because P took influences from the best that ever did certain genres/styles, added in his own ability and then pushed it out of this galaxy to a place where you couldn't attain what exactly he was doing. I agree with the assessment that early on when P was funkin Rick could funk rings around him, but once P found his knack that was that for Rick and anybody else that stepped up. Listen to Adore, even if you don't like it you must admit that its the "Pimp My Ride" of ballads. Rick has never made anything comparable to SOTT. Never! When that album dropped, it was like closing the lid on the arguement. Forget it. Rick's music was funky and inspired but like he would put it, it was for real people on the street. Prince opened up so many different boxes and ideas and toyed with so many different musical styles and concepts that you couldn't even figure out what lane he was in let alone race him! P takes the cake, but Rick was a brilliant musician and singer and he was also very innovative for his time, but anyone who can put Strange Relationship and Starfish and Coffee on the same album deserves some serious props...
Prince didn't make the music for SR ; wendy & lisa did! | |
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adorable2 said: the reason why you have to take P over Rick is because P took influences from the best that ever did certain genres/styles, added in his own ability and then pushed it out of this galaxy to a place where you couldn't attain what exactly he was doing. I agree with the assessment that early on when P was funkin Rick could funk rings around him, but once P found his knack that was that for Rick and anybody else that stepped up. Listen to Adore, even if you don't like it you must admit that its the "Pimp My Ride" of ballads. Rick has never made anything comparable to SOTT. Never! When that album dropped, it was like closing the lid on the arguement. Forget it. Rick's music was funky and inspired but like he would put it, it was for real people on the street. Prince opened up so many different boxes and ideas and toyed with so many different musical styles and concepts that you couldn't even figure out what lane he was in let alone race him! P takes the cake, but Rick was a brilliant musician and singer and he was also very innovative for his time, but anyone who can put Strange Relationship and Starfish and Coffee on the same album deserves some serious props...
I agree with you and the others giving props to Prince over Rick in the final analysis...I can definitely see that...it is VERY hard to entertain anyone being funkier than Prince on tracks like "The Future" or "It" or "Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" and many others...however, one thing about Prince is, who has he influenced? Most of the Minneapolis sound was really based around Prince's writing and production and musicianship...and folks that were in his circle already...Jimmy and Terry would have found their way eventually with or without the Time and Prince...but other than that who has Prince influenced? I know he has made the musicians he played with BETTER musicians, just from being around him and soaking up his musicality...but how has the sonic landscape been changed by him? How has Prince lastingly affected non-Prince music? I ask seriously not rhetorically...a lot of the synthesizer based new-wave music in the early 80s (and I am no expert on new wave) was to my ear more influenced by Motown than Prince. Could anyone comment on the connection between Prince and New Wave? Is there one? Rick strongly influenced late 70s and 80s funk...and along with James was a seminal influence in hip-hop. Where do we see Prince's musical influence manifested today? I've always felt Prince was such a unique artist, he was so left-field, that others couldn't really by influenced by him. He got over in spite of being so different from his audience, rather than what he had in common with them. Someone once said that in order to lead (influence) you have maintain just the right distance in front of those who you would lead...you have to be different enough from them, but not too different. Thoughts? Good, intelligent thread by the way. | |
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They both were giving up the Funk and made history .
As for as being innovative I'll have to go with Prince. Rick was just copying what George and Bootsy already did. Nothing innovative about that unless you missed what P-Funk was doing. Prince took it a step further with his own brand of funk. And everybody was copying the Minnapolis sound in the 80's. Just like they did with Sly , JB and the 60's and P-Funk in the 70's. Get it Up, Controversy, 1999, The Walk all that shit was hot!!! No disrespect to Rick R.I.P. but hands down Prince was greater. | |
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darkstranger521 said: adorable2 said: the reason why you have to take P over Rick is because P took influences from the best that ever did certain genres/styles, added in his own ability and then pushed it out of this galaxy to a place where you couldn't attain what exactly he was doing. I agree with the assessment that early on when P was funkin Rick could funk rings around him, but once P found his knack that was that for Rick and anybody else that stepped up. Listen to Adore, even if you don't like it you must admit that its the "Pimp My Ride" of ballads. Rick has never made anything comparable to SOTT. Never! When that album dropped, it was like closing the lid on the arguement. Forget it. Rick's music was funky and inspired but like he would put it, it was for real people on the street. Prince opened up so many different boxes and ideas and toyed with so many different musical styles and concepts that you couldn't even figure out what lane he was in let alone race him! P takes the cake, but Rick was a brilliant musician and singer and he was also very innovative for his time, but anyone who can put Strange Relationship and Starfish and Coffee on the same album deserves some serious props...
I agree with you and the others giving props to Prince over Rick in the final analysis...I can definitely see that...it is VERY hard to entertain anyone being funkier than Prince on tracks like "The Future" or "It" or "Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" and many others...however, one thing about Prince is, who has he influenced? Most of the Minneapolis sound was really based around Prince's writing and production and musicianship...and folks that were in his circle already...Jimmy and Terry would have found their way eventually with or without the Time and Prince...but other than that who has Prince influenced? I know he has made the musicians he played with BETTER musicians, just from being around him and soaking up his musicality...but how has the sonic landscape been changed by him? How has Prince lastingly affected non-Prince music? I ask seriously not rhetorically...a lot of the synthesizer based new-wave music in the early 80s (and I am no expert on new wave) was to my ear more influenced by Motown than Prince. Could anyone comment on the connection between Prince and New Wave? Is there one? Rick strongly influenced late 70s and 80s funk...and along with James was a seminal influence in hip-hop. Where do we see Prince's musical influence manifested today? I've always felt Prince was such a unique artist, he was so left-field, that others couldn't really by influenced by him. He got over in spite of being so different from his audience, rather than what he had in common with them. Someone once said that in order to lead (influence) you have maintain just the right distance in front of those who you would lead...you have to be different enough from them, but not too different. Thoughts? Good, intelligent thread by the way. Well I don't really count influence in as a major factor because the hip hop i listen to and enjoy is predominately influenced by jazz and bebop not necessarily funk. Plus look how many people Brittany Spears has influenced, that's not neccessarily good. Prince has been influential his music in the 80s was like the second coming of The Beatles. Musically speaking however Rick James was the funk doctor and Prince is the neurosurgeon. | |
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yeah this isnt much of a comparison. comparing rick to prince only up to controversy would be fair, otherwise its absolutely no contest | |
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Rick showed more consistency than Prince in his music career until his arrest. If he hadnt screwed his life up, he may have produced more hits or at least become a powerful producer. Talent-wise I give the edge to Prince. He's a better musician and a more prolific songwriter. | |
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Ok don't get me wrong, Rick James made some amazing music and definitely found the mainstream success before Prince did, but the fame was more fleeting than him. Stick Rick was a trail blazer, he did what he wanted, had multi ethnic players and added a lot of punk and rock elements to get an amazingly funky and accomplished body of music. But he fucked his career up with drugs and dodgy ass guitars, bitches and what was up with that glitter shit in his hair in the superfreak video. Slick Rick did it all fast, he lived fast, partied fast and died fast. 10 years after he blew up with You and I it was over, he had no hits after Looseys Rap which was a duet anyway.
As good as he was he was not a genius. Prince is. But Prince has and always will be better, okay he took a bit longer to become big, but Prince had a cult following from the start, he blew Rick and his band off the stage in the 1980 tour and has ever since. Superfreak is no Kiss and Street Songs sure as hell aint no Sign O the times. Also Prince is still here making funky ass songs and has done even better minus the egos and drugs. To conclude Rick loses as he dosent know the concept of Time and craft like Prince does. RICK WAS A STAR, BUT PRINCE WAS AND STILL IS A REAL MUSICIAN.  17 Years ago I made a commitment to Prince | |
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adorable2 said: darkstranger521 said: I agree with you and the others giving props to Prince over Rick in the final analysis...I can definitely see that...it is VERY hard to entertain anyone being funkier than Prince on tracks like "The Future" or "It" or "Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" and many others...however, one thing about Prince is, who has he influenced? Most of the Minneapolis sound was really based around Prince's writing and production and musicianship...and folks that were in his circle already...Jimmy and Terry would have found their way eventually with or without the Time and Prince...but other than that who has Prince influenced? I know he has made the musicians he played with BETTER musicians, just from being around him and soaking up his musicality...but how has the sonic landscape been changed by him? How has Prince lastingly affected non-Prince music? I ask seriously not rhetorically...a lot of the synthesizer based new-wave music in the early 80s (and I am no expert on new wave) was to my ear more influenced by Motown than Prince. Could anyone comment on the connection between Prince and New Wave? Is there one? Rick strongly influenced late 70s and 80s funk...and along with James was a seminal influence in hip-hop. Where do we see Prince's musical influence manifested today? I've always felt Prince was such a unique artist, he was so left-field, that others couldn't really by influenced by him. He got over in spite of being so different from his audience, rather than what he had in common with them. Someone once said that in order to lead (influence) you have maintain just the right distance in front of those who you would lead...you have to be different enough from them, but not too different. Thoughts? Good, intelligent thread by the way. Well I don't really count influence in as a major factor because the hip hop i listen to and enjoy is predominately influenced by jazz and bebop not necessarily funk. Plus look how many people Brittany Spears has influenced, that's not neccessarily good. Prince has been influential his music in the 80s was like the second coming of The Beatles. Musically speaking however Rick James was the funk doctor and Prince is the neurosurgeon. Preach baby preach. | |
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vainandy said: blackguitaristz said:
I agree. Here's the deal; Both artists came out with their debut albums in 1978. When u compare those two albums, Rick's album makes P's look like a child put that together. That's how more advanced Rick's first album was over P's. U have to remember Rick had 2 bonafide hit singles off of that album in "You and I" and "Mary Jane". Just the overall songwriting and production and even more crucial, Rick's VISION. P, at that stage, wasn't sure what the fuck he wanted to do. He just knew he could sing in falsetto and play all of his own instruments. Very true. Rick came out of the gate from day one being Rick....the outrageous look, the attitude, the Stone City Band sound, and songs about controversial things such as drugs and prostitution. Prince really was kind of tame on his first album. Actually, I never knew it existed until 1981 and I got into Prince in 1979. Here's where I disagree a little. I think Prince had already found his style by the time "Controversy" was released. I just saw him continuing what he started with "Dirty Mind". Also, he had The Time's first album out and was also influencing other artists such as Ebonee Webb (who sounded just like Prince, from the falsetto to the synthesizers). I love "Street Songs" but I like "Controversy" a little better. They are both great albums that sound entirely different. Of course, they are made by two men who are very much individuals. It wouldn't be untill P's album 1999, which was brilliant, when P started to put some distance between him and Rick. Rick wasn't the musician P is nor is Rick nearly as innovative. That showed as clear as day on the 1999 album. I think that album scared the shit out of Rick cuz he simply knew he couldn't fuck with that. EVER.
Rick had "Throwin' Down" out the summer before "1999" came out in the fall. It was doing well all summer long and was spilling over into the fall doing well. They were kind of neck and neck that year until the pop world got wind of Prince with "Little Red Corvette". R&B fans were still pairing up into "Rick James fans" and "Prince fans" and arguing like hell over who was better.
Also, Prince came out with Vanity 6 that year which made Rick furious because he had been planning The Mary Jane Girls and Prince beat him to the punch. Prince definately scared the hell out of Rick talentwise but he really started mouthing off this year more than ever because Prince beat him to the punch with those girls. The "Cold Blooded" album seemed to have more drum machines than Rick's earlier albums but it still had the Stone City Band sound. It was kind of like Rick changing with the times. The "Glow" album was the first disappointing album. Lots of it didn't sound like the Stone City Band at all. I thought to myself "OK motherfucker, Prince is gonna whip your ass this year" and then Prince came out about a month or two later with "Around The World In A Day" sounding totally different than anything he had done before also. I could have slapped the shit out of both of them that year.
Anyway, you had a great comparison and I agree with 95% of it. Way to break it down bro. Love it. I love both artists and do think Rick was a better overall artist simply because he had the better voice. But.....crack kills..... The purple one reins supreme. Its like comparing Len Bias to Michael Jordan, know what I mean? | |
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dseann said: vainandy said: Rick had "Throwin' Down" out the summer before "1999" came out in the fall. It was doing well all summer long and was spilling over into the fall doing well. They were kind of neck and neck that year until the pop world got wind of Prince with "Little Red Corvette". R&B fans were still pairing up into "Rick James fans" and "Prince fans" and arguing like hell over who was better.
Also, Prince came out with Vanity 6 that year which made Rick furious because he had been planning The Mary Jane Girls and Prince beat him to the punch. Prince definately scared the hell out of Rick talentwise but he really started mouthing off this year more than ever because Prince beat him to the punch with those girls. The "Cold Blooded" album seemed to have more drum machines than Rick's earlier albums but it still had the Stone City Band sound. It was kind of like Rick changing with the times. The "Glow" album was the first disappointing album. Lots of it didn't sound like the Stone City Band at all. I thought to myself "OK motherfucker, Prince is gonna whip your ass this year" and then Prince came out about a month or two later with "Around The World In A Day" sounding totally different than anything he had done before also. I could have slapped the shit out of both of them that year.
Anyway, you had a great comparison and I agree with 95% of it. Way to break it down bro. Love it. I love both artists and do think Rick was a better overall artist simply because he had the better voice. But.....crack kills..... The purple one reins supreme. Its like comparing Len Bias to Michael Jordan, know what I mean? C'mon now. I think Rick fulfilled most of his potential. Len never really got started. I'd make the comparison with Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth (Prince being Ruth in this case).
As for the voice making Rick the better artist as opposed to the one you favor I don't know. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Jimi? (rhetorically of course).  |
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could Rick James ever do anything like "In A Large Room With No Light"? "Crystal Ball"? "Computer Blue"? "Others Here With Us?" "If I Was Your Girlfriend"? and on and on?
Rick James was a talented man and a successful one for a time, but Prince could/can do anything Rick did, plus 10 times more. The diversity and quality of the entire Rick James catalog at his peak is 1/10th of Prince's. And that's fine. What he did was great, but comparing him with Prince is a bit unfair to him. In 1981, sure, it was a fair comparison. 2, 3 years later, there's no comparison, and there hasn't been since. | |
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whodknee said: dseann said: Way to break it down bro. Love it. I love both artists and do think Rick was a better overall artist simply because he had the better voice. But.....crack kills..... The purple one reins supreme. Its like comparing Len Bias to Michael Jordan, know what I mean? C'mon now. I think Rick fulfilled most of his potential. Len never really got started. I'd make the comparison with Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth (Prince being Ruth in this case).
As for the voice making Rick the better artist as opposed to the one you favor I don't know. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on Jimi? (rhetorically of course). Jimmi didn't need a voice with all that fucking talent he had playing guitar.....is that what you wanted to hear? That man is in a class by himself.... I really think Rick was a better all-rounder than Prince, he just couldn't maximize his potential. He did have a flying start, just crash landed. I'd also say Micky Mantle fulfilled his potential, the booze didn't hinder his game, it just fucked up his liver. | |
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mikek1 said: I was on another site and someone said James shits on Prince; agree?
Better producer, bass player, singer, more original? I only have 5 James song on my laptop and i don't know who played what so can someone tell me please, thanks. now while Rick James is definitley one of the most underrated musicians of the funk era, Prince is one of those rare cats that TRANSCENDS the form. i mean what other artist do u know who's been placed in the same leauge as Miles, Jimi, AND Mozart? as 4 Rick's music most of it was written by Rick and played by himself and the Stone City Band; Oscar Alston (Bass), Tom McDerrmott (Guitar), Levi Ruffin, (Keys), Erskine Williams (Piano), Lanise Hughes (Drums), Nate Hughes (Percussion) | |
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Rick was and still is one of the most underrated musicians of the funk era, but Prince is one of the rare musicians that TRANSECENDS the form. We're talkin about a cat whose body of music can hang in the same class as Jimi, Miles, AND Mozart....Now Rick could damn sure play but he only ever stayed in one vain and that's where the debate should end....(but we all know it won't) lol  | |
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You know I've been listening to Rick James' "Wonderful" CD. I can't get enough of this...I like practically ever song on this album. I just love music like this! | |
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I am a huge fan of both artists and I don't want to place one artist above the other.While it's true that Prince has more range and plays more styles,I appreciate the fact that Rick stayed loyal to the funk.There are times when I wanna hear an album that is funky from beginning to end.I don't pull out any of Prince's releases,I pull out 'Bustin Out Of L7' or 'Street Songs'. | |
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Dayspring said:
could Rick James ever do anything like "In A Large Room With No Light"? "Crystal Ball"? "Computer Blue"? "Others Here With Us?" "If I Was Your Girlfriend"? and on and on? Rick James was a talented man and a successful one for a time, but Prince could/can do anything Rick did, plus 10 times more. The diversity and quality of the entire Rick James catalog at his peak is 1/10th of Prince's. The fact that Rick was not extremely diverse is one quality I like about him better than Prince. I see Prince's extreme diversity as a turnoff rather than a turnon. Prince's music was much better before 1985 when he was strictly funk/rock with an occasional slow jam. People around here may worship the artsy/fartsy stuff (and I like it myself also). However, I would have been glad to live without it if it meant getting more strong hard stuff like before 1985. Andy is a four letter word. | |
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