Now don't get me wrong, I love prince's music but recently I have rediscovered Frank Zappa and I noticed that his music never gets boring because it's pretty complex and it takes a while to get in to. I have the same experience with most Jazz music, it's not always easy listening but when you 'understand' what a musician is trying to do one can more fully appreciate the music.

Prince makes good music and he writes many songs, but they are usually very simple and can get boring ( the sensual everafter song on rainbow children for instance). Why doesn't he take some more time writing his songs, to create more daring and complex music that I can listen to (to discover more and more things each time I listen to it). After 20+ years of making music he should be able to do this, and it would make him a better artist.

Yep, would be really cool if he wrote more songs like Crystal Ball .

Still love his music though, sometimes you just want a great jam!

Crystal Ball is a good example. I think it's mainly Clare fischer's involvement that makes the song compelling to listen to. maybe Prince should write some more music together with him.

Believe me, when you'll get older you'll certainly lose interest in most of that "complex" music. Give me "Last Heart" over "Hot Rats" anyday.
[This message was edited Sat Aug 24 5:47:32 PDT 2002 by Novabreaker]

Surely U R not comparing Frank Zappa 2 Prince!
I can't name even one Zappa song!

Prince has mellowed as far as experimenting with
different sounds, but the QUALITY of his work is
still intact. A song like "When Eye Lay My Hands
On U" sounds different than the norm, and that's a
fairly recent song.

Zappa? MADNESS!

To each his own. I think the beauty of Prince's art is that like all geniuses he has the uncanny ability to make complex things sound simple.

Shizzle, are you a musician? Or have you ever had any professional musical training? Because if you are a musician or if you have ever had professional musical training, I'm really surprised that you would make such a statement. And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Prince never creates simple or non-complex songs. In fact, I think most of Emancipation is quite simple. But I think to lump everything Prince has done (even recently) into the category of just plain "simple" is a HUGE understatement. In fact, to say such a thing is just false, in my opinion. It's been well over a year since I first heard TRC (I heard it for the first time at last year's Celebration) and I'm still hearing "new" things embedded within some of the songs that I haven't heard before and I listen to that album all the time. So I think what you're suggesting in your post really just depends on the listener... like always.

With Prince, sometimes the music is "simple" but the lyrics are complex. While other times the music is complex, but the lyrics are relatively "simple". And sometimes both music and lyrics are complex. But regardless, with most of Prince's music, when you break it all down, you find that the whole is much greater than the sum of all the parts.

Like some of my friends say... "Prince's music sounds simple... until you try to play it"

Revolution said:

Peaches en Regalia
Tinseltown Rebellion
Catholic Girls
Dancin' Fool
Valley Girl
Broken Hearts Are For Assholes
Fine Girl
Brown Shoes Don't Make It
You Are What You Is
Suicide Chump
Jumbo Go Away
Don't Eat The Yellow Snow

...just off the top of my head.

I notice comparisons between Prince and Zappa on here ALL THE TIME. And really, if you look at all the things Zappa did in his career, not as a public figure, activist, satirist, and all around hellraiser, but simply as a MUSICIAN...you'd see it's a profound compliment. More and more, I'm noticing that when books reference guitars and great guitarists, pictures of Frank Zappa pop up. In my opinion, I think that all too often he sacrificed good strong song structure for the sake of noodling around on guitar for half-hour stretches, but the raw material of what he was doing on guitar was truly amazing. And he LOVED the guitar, and it showed. He may not have been the catchiest songwriter ever, but his ideas were immense, and his imagination was one of the most powerful we'll ever see.

The man said it best: "There's no such thing as shit music. Because to somebody, somewhere, it's the best music in the world."

As for Prince needing to create more complex/experimental music, I think we'll see him swing back to the avant purple. It's when we're the most convinced that he's shot his creative wad that he'll come back and whup our butts with something we thought he'd hung out to dry, and then some. Every artist with a career and discography as long and varied as Prince goes through that long, dry phase that leads to a huge comeback, that leads to all those "dry", relatively obscure albums becoming rediscovered. Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but that era will come...probably when we've all dismissed its possibility.

At the cleveland soundcheck, Prince mentioned that he cannot read sheet music. I wonder if this has anything to do with it. That may be part of the reason why he did such cool music with Wendy & Lisa and Clare Fisher. Odd thing is, I vaguely recall him writing a song with sheet music in Graffiti Bridge (on his computer), not to mention playing from his dads sheet music in Purple Rain.

His music in the past was quite experimental. At a time when people like DeBarge were on the charts with bouncy pop stuff, Prince was doing "In All My Dreams". That was wayyy beyond the sound any R&B/Rock artists at that time would dare to do.

Tom said:

the Debarge Family has Talent.El played all those piano Parts you have Heard on Biggie&Ashanti Covering His Song from back in the day.I don't always go for Pop FLuff but Folks have to pay the Bills.Prince Had "Kiss","Moutains"&AnotherloverholenyoHead" out He never put out "In All My Dreams".there was alot of Good Talent out then.depends on your tastes.Prince is a Smart R&B/Pop Artist.but you'd be surprised at How Many other Artists could do the same things but the Industry has a way of making Acts seem one way when there is far more to them.

Oh please. DeBarge can't be compared to even the Jackson 5, much less Frank Zappa or Prince. Some people have paid bills with more integrity. Debarge was r&b/pop lite. Musicians don't take their music that seriously.

shizzle said:

He did and everybody got pissed.

rdhull said:

Very well said. I totally agree.

Wolf said:

you need to ask somebody about EL Debarge on Piano&Vocals? Burt Bachrach,Bob James,Nathan East,Babyface,Quincy Jones,DJ Quik,Shelia E.'s Dad all Give El much Props among quite a few more.Bobby Debarge was a Bad-Ass as well.Debarge played there own Instruments for the most part.but since you don't have many Debarge Albums I guess you wouldn't know that now would you? Bobby Debarge was a One Man Band.El Plays Bass,Keys&Drums.a couple of there Brothers play Horns,etc.. everybody has a Fan.I Know soem Debarge Fans that Can't stand Prince,MJ,Zappa,Zapp,etc..&Will Break your Behind down on there Musical Talent.I've talked to there Sister the Youngest One&a Member of Switch that will break down there Musical Talent.like I said a Record doesn't always indicate How a Act truly is.but that Family has Talent.

Novabreaker said:

Very well spoken. I agree.

abucah said:

U hit the nail on the head.

mistermaxxx said:

No I don't need to ask anybody ANYTHING. I used to be forced to listen to that pop lite. It don't matter whether or not they played their own instruments, does it, since you felt qualified to tear down Bruce Springsteen's music and his band just becaue you aren't a fan. I'm not a fan of theirs either but they've left a bigger mark in music than Debarge ever will. And I didn't say they didn't have talent. There's really nothing to Debarge's music. Nothing at all.

eye still remember a few songs on the Xenophobia studio album, heck, it played like 4 or 5 times... and it was all instrumenal, and it was pretty experimental.. especially Xenophobia and eye think the song after that.. 2 bad he isnt singing them:)

Novabreaker said:[quote]Believe me, when you'll get older you'll certainly lose interest in most of that "complex" music. Give me "Last Heart" over "Hot Rats" anyday.



Perhaps. Perhaps not. U're so wise, can u be my guru?

Listen to u all. U're so pretentious.

Shizzle, clearly the person who needs to be challenged musically is you. Prince has nothing to do w/ it. You wanna hear some more complex music, play some. P is doing his thing.

Tom said:

fic·tion Pronunciation Key (fkshn)
n.
1.
a. An imaginative creation or a pretense that does not represent actuality but has been invented.
b. The act of inventing such a creation or pretense.

Wolf said:

I Respect Springsteen.but the way the Media talks Him up as this MR.Flag kind of Cat is over-blown in a Elvis kind of Way IMHO.I have some Sprinsteen Tapes as a matter of fact.Clarence clemons tape as well.everybody has a Fan.El Debarge ain't no Joke on Piano&Vocals.Bruce can't hang with Him on Instruments.put it like this: El could do Bruce's Career but Bruce couldn't do El's.

I agree with most of the statements that abucah makes. Like I said: I love Prince's music and it's probably true that when one attempts to play his music it's pretty difficult. Prince has a unique sound which is hard to imitate.

However, and I am not a musician, because I think Prince is such a great talent I want him to write more complex music. Of course his music isn't always simple, but much of it is (You don't need to be a professional musician to discover that most of his songs consist of only a few chords). This is probably one of the reasons why prince is able to write so many songs. I am not condemning Prince, but I would like to see hom moving in yet another direction.