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PrintableHoneymoonXpress said: ThreadBare said: Of course, y'all, there's a flip side: That performance STARTED the resurgence he's ridden for the past 2 1/2 years.
To his hardcore fans, Prince hadn't fallen off. But, to the rest of the world? C'mon now... Beyonce did do him a favor. She was the culturally relevant and popular half of that duet. Let's be real. no one's denying that. I'M DENYING IT. | |
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lilgish said: That was worse then doing American Idol. P shoulda never got on stage with her. It was awful....
[Edited 6/25/06 19:01pm] It wasn't worst than no American Idol and wasn't nothing wrong with performance and I don't believe Beyonce was reluctant to do it because she sure wasn't acting like it when she on stage with him and I'm glad he did it because it lead to more tv appearance the RRHOF, and the Musicology tour. Like someone said earlier because Prince stayed out of the mainstream so long I thing everyone was glad to see him and Purple was getting ready to be 20 years old, it was perfect timing. | |
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dseann said: ThreadBare said: I'm trying to look at it objectively, dseann. I'm no fan of Beyonce's music. I think she actually squanders her songwriting and singing abilities -- but she also seems to be the most successful singer-actress for her market. Not everyone liked Prince's music in the 1980s. We sometimes romanticize his history and influence. No one disputes his talent, but many dispute his "place in history" as being "the best of the best" from that era. I think most would put him behind MJ and Madonna for that period. But recognize that many people felt the same about Prince back then as you apparently do about Beyonce right now. It's all relative. That's another thing. If she's all that how come she need a bunch of producers for her albums? How come she don't produce, arrange, write, and play her albums? Listen I just to argue about Prince with people who have knowledge of the artist.. Don't take it personal. There aren't too many places where I can engage in these discussions so I get real passionate when I do. Like you I think Beyonce needs to get with some real producers to maximize her potential as does Monica who has a killer voice with lame songs..but I can't fix the industry. Don't take my comments personal....I'm just living a dream here. | |
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as Prince said, 'she's an admirable talent'...I don't think Prince needs anyone to be a catalyst for his 'comeback'.
With that being said, I still have not seen tis performance and have heard so much about it. Is it on the Internet and availlable to watch? Thanks SexyBeautifulOne said: ThreadBare said: Of course, y'all, there's a flip side: That performance STARTED the resurgence he's ridden for the past 2 1/2 years.
To his hardcore fans, Prince hadn't fallen off. But, to the rest of the world? C'mon now... Beyonce did do him a favor. She was the culturally relevant and popular half of that duet. Let's be real. You're giving that girl waaay too much credit. Yes, Prince had been off of the mainstream radar, but that's because that's not where he wanted to be. Had he done the same performance sans Ms. Bootylicious, he'd have had the same resurgence, because people were just genuinely happy to see him. Beyonce was nothing more than a shrieking prop. I don't care how popular or culturally relevent she is. Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric. | |
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ThreadBare said: laurarichardson said: ----- "Beyonce did do him a favor." The whole show was mixing the old with the new so if she did not perform with him. They would have found someone else. I guess Pharrel did Sting a favor when the performed together. Please stop the madness. Prince hadn't even had as much visibility as Sting, before that. My point is about relevance and popularity. Most teens couldn't care less about Prince, even after his resurgence. ----- When I went to see P in 2004 I saw a lot of teenagers. In addtion, they are not the only people who buy CD. and Sting has not had to much visibility since "Dessert Rose" which was a hit back in 2001. If you really think Beyonce will be around in 20 years I have a bridge I want to sell to you. She is not on P level talent wise and I don't think she is going to have the ability to be around in 20 plus years. | |
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TurnItUp said: That's another thing. If she's all that how come she need a bunch of producers for her albums? How come she don't produce, arrange, write, and play her albums? What does needing producers have to do with talent? I think people look at the Prince/self-production model as the panacea of musical artistry. Prince could use a producer. He needs quality control and outside input. Lauryn Hill, as talented as she is, had a horrible sophomore release. She didn't have the producers who graced her solo debut. Doesn't mean she's not talented or a sincere songwriter. Just means she -- as with most other artists -- benefits from someone else's help. Again, my comments are very specific to Prince's popularity and industry relevance before he hit the stage with Beyonce. | |
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laurarichardson said: ThreadBare said: Prince hadn't even had as much visibility as Sting, before that. My point is about relevance and popularity. Most teens couldn't care less about Prince, even after his resurgence. ----- When I went to see P in 2004 I saw a lot of teenagers. In addtion, they are not the only people who buy CD. and Sting has not had to much visibility since "Dessert Rose" which was a hit back in 2001. If you really think Beyonce will be around in 20 years I have a bridge I want to sell to you. She is not on P level talent wise and I don't think she is going to have the ability to be around in 20 plus years. Again, I think it's interesting that folks paint the newer generation of artists with the same brush...I got a little secret for you: There are great artists from the past whose career did not last for 20 years...But, their music and legacy still has a profound effect....The point is, while beyonce aint no Chaka Khan the girl has some talent...If you can't pick her from a lineup from Ashanti, Cassie, and Sierra, That says more about your generalization for today's music than anything else... | |
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TurnItUp said: dseann said: That's another thing. If she's all that how come she need a bunch of producers for her albums? How come she don't produce, arrange, write, and play her albums? Listen I just to argue about Prince with people who have knowledge of the artist.. Don't take it personal. There aren't too many places where I can engage in these discussions so I get real passionate when I do. Like you I think Beyonce needs to get with some real producers to maximize her potential as does Monica who has a killer voice with lame songs..but I can't fix the industry. Don't take my comments personal....I'm just living a dream here. No disrespect....This has to be one of the most silliest and off base statements I read on this site.... | |
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ThreadBare said: TurnItUp said: That's another thing. If she's all that how come she need a bunch of producers for her albums? How come she don't produce, arrange, write, and play her albums? What does needing producers have to do with talent? I think people look at the Prince/self-production model as the panacea of musical artistry. Prince could use a producer. He needs quality control and outside input. Lauryn Hill, as talented as she is, had a horrible sophomore release. She didn't have the producers who graced her solo debut. Doesn't mean she's not talented or a sincere songwriter. Just means she -- as with most other artists -- benefits from someone else's help. Again, my comments are very specific to Prince's popularity and industry relevance before he hit the stage with Beyonce. Again, if she's so bad why can't she produce her own shit. Talent or not talent. . Prince used release an album every year and now it's every 2 years. This heffa, it took 3 and a 1/2 years for her to come out with a second solo album. As far as Lauryn Hill goes she still produced her own shit regardless that her second album was a hit or a flop. Again you commments are specific relevent bullshit. | |
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dseann said: ThreadBare said: Actually, amigo, after saying my point was off-target, you repeated it as your own.  Really, so how exactly did Beyonce do do Prince a favor by performing with him? I don't agree with that... I agree wit U!!!! | |
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Hold up...did Beyonce' not want to perform with Prince, or did she not want to perform at the Grammys, period?...There's a difference. | |
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TurnItUp said: ThreadBare said: What does needing producers have to do with talent? I think people look at the Prince/self-production model as the panacea of musical artistry. Prince could use a producer. He needs quality control and outside input. Lauryn Hill, as talented as she is, had a horrible sophomore release. She didn't have the producers who graced her solo debut. Doesn't mean she's not talented or a sincere songwriter. Just means she -- as with most other artists -- benefits from someone else's help. Again, my comments are very specific to Prince's popularity and industry relevance before he hit the stage with Beyonce. Again, if she's so bad why can't she produce her own shit. Talent or not talent. . Prince used release an album every year and now it's every 2 years. This heffa, it took 3 and a 1/2 years for her to come out with a second solo album. As far as Lauryn Hill goes she still produced her own shit regardless that her second album was a hit or a flop. Again you commments are specific relevent bullshit. At least when you post to me, watch your language and tone. Let's keep it respectful. I don't think an artist needs to produce themselves to be relevant and popular. Which were my only issues of comparing her and Prince. Up til then, one was all over the charts while the other had an underground cult following. | |
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Let's see if she'll be all over the charts the second time. Word has it that she's already nervous because her new song Deja Vu is getting off to a slow start and she's worried about coming up against Janet. Now why would she be worried about a 40 year old so-called has-been that can't sing?
Bottom line Beyonce ain't did no favors for nobody except Kelly and Michelle. | |
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ThreadBare said: TurnItUp said: Again, if she's so bad why can't she produce her own shit. Talent or not talent. . Prince used release an album every year and now it's every 2 years. This heffa, it took 3 and a 1/2 years for her to come out with a second solo album. As far as Lauryn Hill goes she still produced her own shit regardless that her second album was a hit or a flop. Again you commments are specific relevent bullshit. At least when you post to me, watch your language and tone. Let's keep it respectful. I don't think an artist needs to produce themselves to be relevant and popular. Which were my only issues of comparing her and Prince. Up til then, one was all over the charts while the other had an underground cult following. One was all over the charts while the other had an underground cult following, huh? You're funny! I'm willing to wager when Beyonce's parents and record label can no longer make any money off of pimping her "booty", she'll wish like hell she had an underground cult following like Prince's. She may be, as you say "relevant and popular" now but in, let's say 5 or 10 years, will anyone care about or even remember Beyonce Knowles? I seriously doubt it. Longevity is the only testiment to true relevancy and popularity! | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: ThreadBare said: At least when you post to me, watch your language and tone. Let's keep it respectful. I don't think an artist needs to produce themselves to be relevant and popular. Which were my only issues of comparing her and Prince. Up til then, one was all over the charts while the other had an underground cult following. One was all over the charts while the other had an underground cult following, huh? You're funny! I'm willing to wager when Beyonce's parents and record label can no longer make any money off of pimping her "booty", she'll wish like hell she had an underground cult following like Prince's. She may be, as you say "relevant and popular" now but in, let's say 5 or 10 years, will anyone care about or even remember Beyonce Knowles? I seriously doubt it. Longevity is the only testiment to true relevancy and popularity! People have been writing her off for almost a decade now... Furthermore, I don't think anyone's trying to make her out to be the next Aretha Franklin. But Beyonce and her folks do at least get credit for finding ways to franchise and market (just like J.Lo), to branch out and exploit a market as well and as deeply as possible. Sure, in 10 years, people might have her on their "Where Are They Now?" lists, but she will be living off interest (if she isn't already). [Edited 6/26/06 14:10pm] | |
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If Beyonce keeps trying to "act" in movies she's gonna become a has-been quicker than she could possibly imagine. I saw "The Pink Panther" on the plane back from New York, and holy crap, was she horrid...  ...That was embarassing, I was sincerely embarassed for her. And unfortunately it left the impression in my mind that she thinks she has more talent than she really does...and it's gonna carry over to when I hear any of her new songs, I just know it will. I got the same feeling from Prince when he was putting out dreck like "Under The Cherry Moon" and "Graffiti Bridge", but the difference was that Prince was in reality trying to make a long music video...as well as the music itself was tremendous and his personality and talent was so unique that it was enough to keep the thoughts of "he thinks he's more talented than he really is" contained to his acting.
Beyonce doesn't have tremendous music, and her personality and talent aren't unique enough to ward off having those thoughts effect her musical efforts... | |
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ThreadBare said: SexyBeautifulOne said: One was all over the charts while the other had an underground cult following, huh? You're funny! I'm willing to wager when Beyonce's parents and record label can no longer make any money off of pimping her "booty", she'll wish like hell she had an underground cult following like Prince's. She may be, as you say "relevant and popular" now but in, let's say 5 or 10 years, will anyone care about or even remember Beyonce Knowles? I seriously doubt it. Longevity is the only testiment to true relevancy and popularity! People have been writing her off for almost a decade now... Furthermore, I don't think anyone's trying to make her out to be the next Aretha Franklin. But Beyonce and her folks do at least get credit for finding ways to franchise and market (just like J.Lo), to branch out and exploit a market as well and as deeply as possible. Sure, in 10 years, people might have her on their "Where Are They Now?" lists, but she will be living off interest (if she isn't already). [Edited 6/26/06 14:10pm] People have been writing her off for almost a decade now because we could have never dreamed that the decline of music would be so drastic that crap and crap artists could actually top the charts. We didn't think she stood a chance. How were we to know there was such a huge market for crap? 
I never said anything about her financial standing in the future. I sincerely hope like hell girlfriend is keeping a very close eye on her money because I really hate stories of black folks letting other folks, related and otherwise screw them out of fortunes. | |
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TurnItUp said: That's another thing. If she's all that how come she need a bunch of producers for her albums? How come she don't produce, arrange, write, and play her albums? Actually she does write, arrange, and produce most of her and destiny's child's songs, but no she doesn't play on them. [Edited 6/26/06 15:38pm] All the other kids would luv2luvya...but you're my little private joy | |
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luv2luvya said:[quote] ThreadBare said: TurnItUp said: That's another thing. If she's all that how come she need a bunch of producers for her albums? How come she don't produce, arrange, write, and play her albums? Actually she does write, arrange, and produce most of her and destiny's child's songs, but no she doesn't play on them. Oh yeah thet "Bootylicious" was so profound. Oh and "Bills, Bills Bills," and no let's not turn a blind eye to the stellar "Jiggaboo." By the way when asked how she came up with the term Bootylicious she claimed she was on a plane and the song just came to her. However she neglected to mention Snoop Dog introduced the hip hop community to that word on the song Dre Day a long time ago. So technically that's a rip off. I wouldn't even be standin in line to admit I wrote those songs (Xcept paycheck time). Beyonce is ok but i don't call that songwriting. Even Crazy In Love is an ode to chickenheads everywhere. "your love got me lookin so crazy". pff. what a joke. oh yeah but let me say she is an okay singer, but she isn't writing standards. [Edited 6/26/06 15:46pm] | |
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adorable2 said: luv2luvya said: Actually she does write, arrange, and produce most of her and destiny's child's songs, but no she doesn't play on them. Oh yeah thet "Bootylicious" was so profound. Oh and "Bills, Bills Bills," and no let's not turn a blind eye to the stellar "Jiggaboo." By the way when asked how she came up with the term Bootylicious she claimed she was on a plane and the song just came to her. However she neglected to mention Snoop Dog introduced the hip hop community to that word on the song Dre Day a long time ago. So technically that's a rip off. I wouldn't even be standin in line to admit I wrote those songs (Xcept paycheck time). Beyonce is ok but i don't call that songwriting. Even Crazy In Love is an ode to chickenheads everywhere. "your love got me lookin so crazy". pff. what a joke. oh yeah but let me say she is an okay singer, but she isn't writing standards. [Edited 6/26/06 15:46pm] Hey, I was just correcting someone's statement. Technically speaking she is writing. Do I give a shit how good it is.....ah, no. But I'm not going to diss on someone for seemingly no apparent reason. And yeah I agree with you the girl does have vocals, but she could use a new vibe. All the other kids would luv2luvya...but you're my little private joy | |
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HoneymoonXpress said: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/ent_radio/story/389003p-330071c.html
That mixture of old and new guard, an Ehrlichtrademark, has kept the audience for the CBS broadcast trending younger, even as the show itself has lost viewers overall. Ehrlich credits the revised nomination procedures with part of that, for making the nominees more vital overall, but also with the Grammys' reach and clout among several generations of artists. "We all want to be contemporary," he said. "We all want to feel as current as we are timeless." That's why, two years ago, Prince and Beyoncé stopped the show with their incendiary duet - a performance one of them was very reluctant to agree to. "I had to persuade [Beyoncé] to do that," Ehrlich said. "It wasn't that she didn't like Prince. She just didn't quite understand how important that would be, putting that in a musical and a historical context." Someone has to school these hip-hoppers on the fact that if it wasn't for generations past, they wouldn't exist! | |
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Voidra said:[quote]as Prince said, 'she's an admirable talent'...I don't think Prince needs anyone to be a catalyst for his 'comeback'.
With that being said, I still have not seen tis performance and have heard so much about it. Is it on the Internet and availlable to watch? Thanks You can view the performance on my space.com in the video section. Just do a prince search and you'll find it. I watched it up to last week. | |
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SexyBeautifulOne said: ThreadBare said: People have been writing her off for almost a decade now... Furthermore, I don't think anyone's trying to make her out to be the next Aretha Franklin. But Beyonce and her folks do at least get credit for finding ways to franchise and market (just like J.Lo), to branch out and exploit a market as well and as deeply as possible. Sure, in 10 years, people might have her on their "Where Are They Now?" lists, but she will be living off interest (if she isn't already). People have been writing her off for almost a decade now because we could have never dreamed that the decline of music would be so drastic that crap and crap artists could actually top the charts. We didn't think she stood a chance. How were we to know there was such a huge market for crap?
People have been lamenting a "decline in music" probably as long as music has been around. Certain chords, scales and modes were frowned upon among classical composers. I suspect not everyone was too crazy about jazz, when it first started to hit. Rock and roll was called the devil's music. Disco was called trash and still, in some circles, remains a punchline. The same applies to light rock. Rap was derided as a flash-in-the-pan ghetto phenom in the 1980s, too. With each genre, there have been chart-topping artists who have become poster children for "music's decline." They tend to sell a lot of records and concert tickets and branch out into acting. Beyonce's just doing today what Olivia Newton-John did two decades ago. | |
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murph said: TurnItUp said: No disrespect....This has to be one of the most silliest and off base statements I read on this site.... Murph, No disrespect....but that statement was meant for threadbare not you. | |
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i'm thinking Jay-Z was the one who was reluctant. i think he feared Beyonce` would be wearing lace and lingerie or maybe even fronting a new band by the name of Beyonce 6 after hooking up with P for a couple of hours.  | |
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ThreadBare said: Of course, y'all, there's a flip side: That performance STARTED the resurgence he's ridden for the past 2 1/2 years.
To his hardcore fans, Prince hadn't fallen off. But, to the rest of the world? C'mon now... Beyonce did do him a favor. She was the culturally relevant and popular half of that duet. Let's be real. it didnt matter who sang with him.the impact would have been made regardless.the grammys did him a favor.not beyonce' | |
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luv2luvya said: TurnItUp said: That's another thing. If she's all that how come she need a bunch of producers for her albums? How come she don't produce, arrange, write, and play her albums? Actually she does write, arrange, and produce most of her and destiny's child's songs, but no she doesn't play on them. [Edited 6/26/06 15:38pm] Post it, cuz I've never seen it listed on any of the DC albums and I got her CD, it's not listed on there, but as much as folk dog Alicia Keys I have seen it on both her CDs. I know she's a songwriter because she was the first black female to win that one song writing award, but she don't write all her and DC's songs, but I ain't never seen arrange/fully-produce. | |
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adorable2 said: luv2luvya said: Actually she does write, arrange, and produce most of her and destiny's child's songs, but no she doesn't play on them. Oh yeah thet "Bootylicious" was so profound. Oh and "Bills, Bills Bills," and no let's not turn a blind eye to the stellar "Jiggaboo." By the way when asked how she came up with the term Bootylicious she claimed she was on a plane and the song just came to her. However she neglected to mention Snoop Dog introduced the hip hop community to that word on the song Dre Day a long time ago. So technically that's a rip off. I wouldn't even be standin in line to admit I wrote those songs (Xcept paycheck time). Beyonce is ok but i don't call that songwriting. Even Crazy In Love is an ode to chickenheads everywhere. "your love got me lookin so crazy". pff. what a joke. oh yeah but let me say she is an okay singer, but she isn't writing standards. [Edited 6/26/06 15:46pm] Another thing that would've been genius is if she would've came up with her own original music instead of sampling/interpolating (whatever you wanna call it)somebody else. Almost every track on DIL was an interpolation. Alicia Keys is guilty of the same thing as well as a bunch of other folks. Even folks old enough to know better like Mariah and Janet. People can't come up with a tune of their own if their life depended on it. | |
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khemseraph said: ThreadBare said: Of course, y'all, there's a flip side: That performance STARTED the resurgence he's ridden for the past 2 1/2 years.
To his hardcore fans, Prince hadn't fallen off. But, to the rest of the world? C'mon now... Beyonce did do him a favor. She was the culturally relevant and popular half of that duet. Let's be real. it didnt matter who sang with him.the impact would have been made regardless.the grammys did him a favor.not beyonce' He did them favor too, why you playin' that was the top performance of all the performances that particular one 2 years ago. They said they had been asking him for years, not the other way around. The Grammys knew they was gonna get something like (ratings) out of the deal just like Prince knew he was gonna get something out of it and they both did. | |
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TurnItUp said: adorable2 said: Oh yeah thet "Bootylicious" was so profound. Oh and "Bills, Bills Bills," and no let's not turn a blind eye to the stellar "Jiggaboo." By the way when asked how she came up with the term Bootylicious she claimed she was on a plane and the song just came to her. However she neglected to mention Snoop Dog introduced the hip hop community to that word on the song Dre Day a long time ago. So technically that's a rip off. I wouldn't even be standin in line to admit I wrote those songs (Xcept paycheck time). Beyonce is ok but i don't call that songwriting. Even Crazy In Love is an ode to chickenheads everywhere. "your love got me lookin so crazy". pff. what a joke. oh yeah but let me say she is an okay singer, but she isn't writing standards. [Edited 6/26/06 15:46pm] Another thing that would've been genius is if she would've came up with her own original music instead of sampling/interpolating (whatever you wanna call it)somebody else. Almost every track on DIL was an interpolation. Alicia Keys is guilty of the same thing as well as a bunch of other folks. Even folks old enough to know better like Mariah and Janet. People can't come up with a tune of their own if their life depended on it. Yeah, but I really don't have a problem with people like Beyonce and the others, all I'm sayin is and I quote Nas... "Let's get it all in perspective". Lets not try to make these people out to be something they're really not. If you like them and what they do that's cool, but keep them in their proper place. It's like saying " I hate the fact that B2K broke up because they were better than the Beatles." See, it makes no sense whatsoever. I don't even think its unfortunate that mediocre recording artists can do so well these days, because I'm just glad I haven't acquired a taste for mediocrity. | |
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