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Printableokay, well being influenced by other musicians, artists, poets, etc. and coming up with your own piece of original work(of which you can hear the influences in) is different than blatantly stealing someone elses piece of art. I can tell you're a smart dude, you know this, come on. | |
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okay, being influenced by other musicians, artists, poets,etc. and coming up with your own piece of art (of which you can still see or hear the influence of the original) is different than blatantly stealing someone else's piece, making minor alterations and calling it your own. I can tell you're a smart dude, you know this, come on. | |
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DiamondGirl said: smokeverbs said: Yeah you won't get far around my way talking like that. Public Enemy are as vital as Prince, without a doubt. Chuck D, great, great lyricist. The Bomb Squad, GENIUS artists and producers.
Asell as having more substance then Prince imo. Just with one album even compared to Princes whole catalogue of pop ditties and pussy pontifications  Prince even has "Fight the Power" on his WNPG Origin playlist. Fuck the funk - it's time to ditch the worn-out Vegas horns fills, pick up the geee-tar and finally ROCK THE MUTHA-FUCKER!! He hinted at this on Chaos, now it's time to step up and fully DELIVER!!
KrystleEyes 22/03/05 | |
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I used to think sampling was a cheap device and a creative shortcut. To me sampling was like taking a free ride on someone's else's creativity.
But then the same can be said about cover songs and movie remakes and parodies. Technically they're "unoriginal" but the main interest is in the style of the retelling, not in the newness of the premise. The practice of appropriation has always been controversial, especially in this day and age where "intellectual property" is such a hot issue. There was an artist, Jeff Koons, who exhibited Nike posters as "ready-made" art, and he commissioned a giant sculpture of a cartoon bear, based on a drawing from a greeting card. Koons was sued by the original artist of the latter. I think it was determined that "social satire and parody" are protected under the First Amendment. As long as one goes through the appropriate legal channels and procures permission, it's all good. Squabbles arise when permission isn't given and there's perceived theft, in which case it's not so much about originality as it is about intelletual property rights, royalties, and credit. Outside the legal issues, the artistry and merit of sampling is pretty much a personal judgment call. | |
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As a musician and music lover, I had to chime in on this debate. First off, Rolling Stone is insane for not including Prince on the guitar list and for listing Purple Rain so low on the albums list, but what do you expect from them? If they were really about music, they wouldn't have been around for so long or be as popular with the mainstream as they are. Rolling Stone is about popular culture and appealing to its targeted demo, which really doesn't include many of us. Was Eddie Hazel or Kenny Burrell anywhere on the guitar player list? If so I would be shocked. Duane Allman at number 2 says it all.
Now to the sampling/playing debate. As much as I love some of PE's work and many other hip hop artists, I cannot put them in the same league as a true musician - defined as someone who plays a MUSICAL instrument, including voice. Sampling is an art, but it cannot legitimately be compared to learning the language of music and interpreting/communicating emotion through a musical instrument. Prince composes songs - melodies, harmonies, chords, rhythm. Sampling uses the compositions of real musicians as the backdrop for someone talking with varied intonations. It's apples and oranges. Yes PE are talented at what they do, but they are not musicians. Finally, any attempt to compare PE's body of work to Prince's is futile. PE's work is certainly not as vast or varied. They are artists who are limited in scope. Prince's music has traversed terrains that are beyond the realm of PE and most other artists of the past, present and future. All musicians - as all people - have influences. Those influences synthesize into our individual beings. Prince's influences are housed in a uniquely talented individual who truly has no equal. I say this not in the voice of a rabid Prince fan. Some can argue that there are better singers, better songwriters, better guitarists, better pianists, better drummers, better bass players, or better live performers than Prince. But there is no one who can argue that anyone – past or present – has ever combined all these aspects/talents into one whole. No one. Prince has no equal. perfection is a fallacy of the imagination... | |
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bellanoche said: As a musician and music lover, I had to chime in on this debate. First off, Rolling Stone is insane for not including Prince on the guitar list and for listing Purple Rain so low on the albums list, but what do you expect from them? If they were really about music, they wouldn't have been around for so long or be as popular with the mainstream as they are. Rolling Stone is about popular culture and appealing to its targeted demo, which really doesn't include many of us. Was Eddie Hazel or Kenny Burrell anywhere on the guitar player list? If so I would be shocked. Duane Allman at number 2 says it all.
Now to the sampling/playing debate. As much as I love some of PE's work and many other hip hop artists, I cannot put them in the same league as a true musician - defined as someone who plays a MUSICAL instrument, including voice. Sampling is an art, but it cannot legitimately be compared to learning the language of music and interpreting/communicating emotion through a musical instrument. Prince composes songs - melodies, harmonies, chords, rhythm. Sampling uses the compositions of real musicians as the backdrop for someone talking with varied intonations. It's apples and oranges. Yes PE are talented at what they do, but they are not musicians. >>>>>You are far off on another planet, dude, and it's called ludacris. PE are musicians. Finally, any attempt to compare PE's body of work to Prince's is futile. PE's work is certainly not as vast or varied. They are artists who are limited in scope. Prince's music has traversed terrains that are beyond the realm of PE and most other artists of the past, present and future. All musicians - as all people - have influences. Those influences synthesize into our individual beings. Prince's influences are housed in a uniquely talented individual who truly has no equal. I say this not in the voice of a rabid Prince fan. Some can argue that there are better singers, better songwriters, better guitarists, better pianists, better drummers, better bass players, or better live performers than Prince. But there is no one who can argue that anyone – past or present – has ever combined all these aspects/talents into one whole. No one. Prince has no equal. >>>>>There is more to music besides lil Princey. | |
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workingupahiyellasweat said: bellanoche said: As a musician and music lover, I had to chime in on this debate. First off, Rolling Stone is insane for not including Prince on the guitar list and for listing Purple Rain so low on the albums list, but what do you expect from them? If they were really about music, they wouldn't have been around for so long or be as popular with the mainstream as they are. Rolling Stone is about popular culture and appealing to its targeted demo, which really doesn't include many of us. Was Eddie Hazel or Kenny Burrell anywhere on the guitar player list? If so I would be shocked. Duane Allman at number 2 says it all.
Now to the sampling/playing debate. As much as I love some of PE's work and many other hip hop artists, I cannot put them in the same league as a true musician - defined as someone who plays a MUSICAL instrument, including voice. Sampling is an art, but it cannot legitimately be compared to learning the language of music and interpreting/communicating emotion through a musical instrument. Prince composes songs - melodies, harmonies, chords, rhythm. Sampling uses the compositions of real musicians as the backdrop for someone talking with varied intonations. It's apples and oranges. Yes PE are talented at what they do, but they are not musicians. >>>>>You are far off on another planet, dude, and it's called ludacris. PE are musicians. Finally, any attempt to compare PE's body of work to Prince's is futile. PE's work is certainly not as vast or varied. They are artists who are limited in scope. Prince's music has traversed terrains that are beyond the realm of PE and most other artists of the past, present and future. All musicians - as all people - have influences. Those influences synthesize into our individual beings. Prince's influences are housed in a uniquely talented individual who truly has no equal. I say this not in the voice of a rabid Prince fan. Some can argue that there are better singers, better songwriters, better guitarists, better pianists, better drummers, better bass players, or better live performers than Prince. But there is no one who can argue that anyone – past or present – has ever combined all these aspects/talents into one whole. No one. Prince has no equal. >>>>>There is more to music besides lil Princey. I don't know if it is as a result of a limited level of comprehension or your inability to see beyond your myopic view of Prince, but at no point did I state that Prince was all there was too music. What I said was that he has no equal, which is a fact whether you listen to his music, love the man or hate the man. The indisputable fact is that there has never been another artist to accomplish what he has musically or careeerwise - on any level. If you have a fundamental understanding of the English language and read my post without bias, you will see that I am aware of a music world beyond Prince. I do listen to Eddie Hazel, Kenny Burrell, the Allman Brothers and which is why I mentioned them in my post. I've studied and played classical piano and jazz/funk bass for more than 13 years. I am well aware of many amazing musicians from a plethora of genres. My knowledge of the music world beyond Prince makes me intelligent enough to know what a musician is and what it is not. Finally, I don't know if your use of the word "dude" was a colloquial manifestation of your limited intelligence or based on the assumption that I am male. Whatever the case, I am not a dude. [Edited 6/11/06 18:31pm] perfection is a fallacy of the imagination... | |
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Snap said: They did a 100 best guitarists about 10 years ago , from memory, and had Prince at no. 13. So what has changed? If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it! |
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bellanoche said: workingupahiyellasweat said: >>>>>There is more to music besides lil Princey. I don't know if it is as a result of a limited level of comprehension or your inability to see beyond your myopic view of Prince, but at no point did I state that Prince was all there was too music. What I said was that he has no equal, which is a fact whether you listen to his music, love the man or hate the man. The indisputable fact is that there has never been another artist to accomplish what he has musically or careeerwise - on any level. If you have a fundamental understanding of the English language and read my post without bias, you will see that I am aware of a music world beyond Prince. I do listen to Eddie Hazel, Kenny Burrell, the Allman Brothers and which is why I mentioned them in my post. I've studied and played classical piano and jazz/funk bass for more than 13 years. I am well aware of many amazing musicians from a plethora of genres. My knowledge of the music world beyond Prince makes me intelligent enough to know what a musician is and what it is not. Finally, I don't know if your use of the word "dude" was a colloquial manifestation of your limited intelligence or based on the assumption that I am male. Whatever the case, I am not a dude. [Edited 6/11/06 18:31pm] You really like to hear yourself talk, dude. Give yourself a  for being an intelligent person.
How are you on woodwind instruments? | |
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ahem, uuhh, 'dudes' (and i consider everyone a dude, as i happen to be a hiipie and a communist, though i personally gave up on rolling stone back when timberlake scored TWO covers in one year.....)
. . . it's probably a little too late for this to matter much, but i thought i'd just throw out there that the list that this thread is based on didn't have anything to do with musicians, it was an album list...where was gil scott heron on this list i wonder? or john f kennedy...they had extremely important albums too. . . . . . . . . . .there's more to albums than just music, though i doubt the compilers of that list were taking that into consideration. . . . 
EDIT : i'm actually neither a hippie nor communist; so spare any personal attacks this post might inspire - i'm actually a right-wing lesbian midget quadrapalegic evangelist. . .which is why everyone is dude to me. . . [Edited 6/12/06 11:01am] | |
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actionthisday said: Rolling stone is for hippies and communists!!
Damn right. And they are against the working class too!  | |
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workingupahiyellasweat said: How are you on woodwind instruments?
are you referring to the skin flute?  | |
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"all i know is ,la,la la la la la la la, luv u, i luv u."betchabygollywow. [Edited 6/12/06 11:13am] may meekness, and peace follow u where ever u may go... | |
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Growing up poor in tha ghetto alot of kidz could not afford piano lessons, r their parents couldnt buy them an instrument,2 even learn to play on and 4 this reason why most "had"2 sampled music in tha first place. "one monkey dont stop no show"! may meekness, and peace follow u where ever u may go... | |
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DiamondGirl said: smokeverbs said: Yeah you won't get far around my way talking like that. Public Enemy are as vital as Prince, without a doubt. Chuck D, great, great lyricist. The Bomb Squad, GENIUS artists and producers.
Asell as having more substance then Prince imo. Just with one album even compared to Princes whole catalogue of pop ditties and pussy pontifications ----- Sorry we all know that Chuck D and Public Enemy are great but they don't have a Purple Rain or a Sign Of The Times in their catalogue. If you look at pure musicianship they just don't have anything on P. | |
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electriclife said: look, if you think your going to convince me that a "band" like the Bomb Squad or the Dust Brothers, who jack other records loop them, and maybe take other little parts of other records and mix them in are more creative than someone who lays down their own bassline, drumbeat, guitar, synthline, and whatever other instruments they decide to use, it ain't gonna happen.
----- Co-Sign. I don't know what some of these people are smoking but, it tells us all a lot about our society when freely ripping off other artist by sampling their music makes them better then a real musician. | |
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workingupahiyellasweat said: bellanoche said: I don't know if it is as a result of a limited level of comprehension or your inability to see beyond your myopic view of Prince, but at no point did I state that Prince was all there was too music. What I said was that he has no equal, which is a fact whether you listen to his music, love the man or hate the man. The indisputable fact is that there has never been another artist to accomplish what he has musically or careeerwise - on any level. If you have a fundamental understanding of the English language and read my post without bias, you will see that I am aware of a music world beyond Prince. I do listen to Eddie Hazel, Kenny Burrell, the Allman Brothers and which is why I mentioned them in my post. I've studied and played classical piano and jazz/funk bass for more than 13 years. I am well aware of many amazing musicians from a plethora of genres. My knowledge of the music world beyond Prince makes me intelligent enough to know what a musician is and what it is not. Finally, I don't know if your use of the word "dude" was a colloquial manifestation of your limited intelligence or based on the assumption that I am male. Whatever the case, I am not a dude. [Edited 6/11/06 18:31pm] You really like to hear yourself talk, dude. Give yourself a for being an intelligent person.
How are you on woodwind instruments? ----- Try reading this from the previous post. This pretty much sums up this topic. 'But there is no one who can argue that anyone – past or present – has ever combined all these aspects/talents into one whole. No one. Prince has no equal.' ----- If you can think of any group or rapper that can do it all like P then please let us know. Because I can't think of anyone and it certainly would not be a rapper or a rap group. | |
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These lists generally suck. 
All anyone has to do is consider the source of these lists (and I mean all lists from all rock, entertainment type magazines) to figure out the importance of such lists. I can never figure out how any magazine, editors, groups of writers, etc. can determine a "factual" or "credible" list of anything regarding music. Everyone's tastes are different - no one's gonna agree. Take them as they are, entertainment... then write a letter to bitch them out of their poor placement of Prince!  |
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moderatorDude ...
Rolling Stone has sucked since the 70's man... they're a bunch of swill merchants... best thing that ever came out of Rolling Stone was Hunter S. Thompson 
thats... it... I am a Rail Road, Track Abandoned
With the Sunset forgetting, i ever Happened http://www.myspace.com/stolenmorning | |
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Snap said: in their 100 Best Guitarists issue -- no Prince
 i wonder if their reply would be "he is not a guitarist he is a musician" | |
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June7 said: These lists generally suck.
All anyone has to do is consider the source of these lists (and I mean all lists from all rock, entertainment type magazines) to figure out the importance of such lists. I can never figure out how any magazine, editors, groups of writers, etc. can determine a "factual" or "credible" list of anything regarding music. Everyone's tastes are different - no one's gonna agree. Take them as they are, entertainment... then write a letter to bitch them out of their poor placement of Prince! I agree that the importance of these lists is minimal, but what irks my nerves is that someone that knows little of Prince picks up one of these said lists and sees where Prince ranks or doesn't rank, runs to me and says, "hey look Rolling Stone doesn't seem to think much of Prince, so he must not be much." After all, to the common person Rolling Stone is the authority on rock music. | |
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In my opinion no 1 compares 2 Prince , but hey that's me. I'm defending tha poor. This is why sampling became an instrument. It doesnt make a person better r less, just different. And u have to reuse music in order to make music, think about it? just rearrange it to sound different. so if u r using a drum set that ur parents bought, u r u were blessed enuff 2 get a job 2 buy 1, r if i used a wash tub, as long as tha music makes people happy, i'm cool with it.
music, as far as i'm concerned, is a spirit anyways, and once it posses ur body u can play rubberbands and people will feel u.its still tha same chords being reused. there r only so many chords in tha music scale,and even if u play them backwards u still r reusing them. Dont hate. if u discover a way 2 do something differntly, u r unique, and people what 2 hear about it. may meekness, and peace follow u where ever u may go... | |
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And let me add also that this sampling is a double 2-edged sword. It not only mean stealing music,but it has also means reserrection as well. may meekness, and peace follow u where ever u may go... | |
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