I like “3121” and “Musicology”… I think they are both solid records, but something has been bothering me about them. I think I finally figured out what it is… and it ties into Prince’s behavior lately. His arrogance on American Idol, for example. He is apparently still laboring under the delusion that its 1984, and he’s in the midst of a 24 week stay atop the Billboard Album charts.

That ain’t the case. People are starting to remember again that he’s a weird one. Folks are not impressed by his brazen egotism anymore; what was audacious in 1984 when he was at the top of the pop stratosphere now just seems silly. He’s obviously kept his appearances to a minimum so as to heighten their impact and suspense; everything he does is under a ridiculous shroud of mystery. Ooooooh….. What’s Prince gonna do? Is he gonna tour? Is he doing AI? More TV appearances? At some point it’s hard to keep caring.

To put it lightly, Prince has never exhibited the most fan-friendly attitude. There are times when he can be incredibly gracious and down to earth, but those are rare occurrences. He has acted like a prima-donna his entire career, and appears to have the attitude that we as fans are lucky for the chance to bask in the glow of his astounding brilliance. I saw Pearl Jam last night in concert, and let me tell you: THAT is a band that cares about their fans. Everything they do is driven by a desire to give back and support the fans. Prince seems to be driven by a desire to support himself and to hear everyone talk about what a “genius” he is.

“Musicology” and “3121” are calculated in a way that only “Rave un2 the Joy Fantastic” can compare. In Prince’s commercial hey-day, he did what he felt, and it just happened to catch commercial fire. There was nothing blatantly and obviously commercial about “1999” or “Purple Rain” – they were just incredible albums that caught on with a huge audience. They set new limits and were entirely fresh and innovative. You could not listen to either of those albums and get the impression that Prince was actively seeking Top 5 pop singles. That has been his trademark for most of his career. He has taken himself where his muse and creativity wanted to go. Sometimes it has worked, sometimes not so well. "Rave" was an obvious attempt at commercial success; it flopped, and it seemed like he went in the opposite direction almost as if to say "well, I didn't really care anyway." But being away from the limelight was too much for him.... he tried again with "Musicology", and hit pay dirt.

The songs on “Musicology” and “3121” seem generated with commercial appeal in mind. They are formulaic – like there are certain aspects of his musical personality and certain genres that he felt he HAD to cover, and the songs were merely exercises rather than creativity that came from the heart. Sure, “3121” is great, and has loads of great tunes. And I would rather listen to it than to “The Rainbow Children.” But, say what you want about TRC, it was from the heart and soul, and was not aimed at getting himself back on the pop charts. I think that’s why I feel like something is missing from “Musicology” and “3121” – it’s almost like Prince is doing karaoke imitations of himself. He’s best when he’s writing and recording something that feels real instead of writing through the prism of attempting to be commercial. The entire 86/87 "Dream Factory"/"Crystal Ball"/"SOTT" period, for example.

Prince is an unparalleled musical genius. I wish he would forget about being able to swoop in and make surprise TV performances, and star power, and go back to doing what he did best from 1983 to 1990 – making trailblazing music that nobody could touch. If it’s commercial and sells well, great! But let the masses come to him, like he did in the 80’s. He is too good to go searching for them. He should leave that to the Jessica Simpsons and Nick Lachay’s of the world.

Anyway. Just some random thoughts I've been having lately. I adore "3121"... and Prince obviously tried very very hard with it. But it just seems sooooo calculated that its almost enough to make me want to throw it across the room sometimes. It feels like I'm being led around by the nose, and I don't like that feeling.

I think I can respond better to your post if you tell me exactly or specifically, what it is that you want Prince to do.

NorthernLad said:

On the money.

Truth be told, the entire Purple Rain project was very calculated for commercial appeal. Sure, those songs are genius, but make no mistake, Prince was aiming for an album that had HUGE commercial appeal. Prince was aware of his crossover potential and he made a record full of pop/rock songs. The song "Purple Rain" is the most blatant example of this. The songs were innovative, but in 1984 they weren't too "out there" and they didn't sound that abstract in the synth filled year that was 1984.

Bottom line: Prince has ALWAYS straddled the the line that divides pop/commercial side of music and the artistic side of music. Think about it, this is the dude who, in 1979, released an admittedly contrived for radio pop album Prince, and then the next year put out Dirty Mind.


PS. For a guy who ALWAYS does things exactly as he pleases, Prince is EXTREMELY fan friendly. I have memories of countless free Paisley Park concerts that attest to that fact.
[Edited 5/31/06 9:58am]

wonder505 said:

I want him to stop trying to capture the TRL crowd; it ain't gonna happen long-term.

skywalker said:

Were those shows fan friendly? I wonder. Like I said, he is capable of being fan friendly, and sometimes he is.

But random shows starting at odd hours of the night in Minneapolis, to which only a select few fans could possibly go? Were those shows for the fans, or for him? I always thought he had a sorta romantic notion about creating his own scene up there. He played the part of the enigmatic superstar who would descend from his mansion and - after making the crowd wait until 3 in the morning - wow them with a 2 hour set of jams. The whole thing seemed rather odd to me.

Purple Rain was a raw album; much of it recorded live. It's crackling with energy and passion and fire. "3121" is so polished it gleams. I'm sure he went into the Purple Rain project thinking it could be successful, but the music doesn't have that calculated "I want to appeal to this group, and this group, and this group" feel that "3121" and "Musicology" have.

I'd far rather have Prince be an enigmatic unreachable prima donna than one of these popstar celebrities who sell themselves as much through tv shows and Hello-type magazines rather than their music, revealing as much as they can about their life until you're sick of them.

The music industry is a business as well as an art, and as has been said, Prince straddles both, sometimes he is more in one camp than the other. I don't see it is such an offence to make some accessible commercially-aimed music in the first place. Maybe Prince could do better, but he has already done better, he has nothing to prove anymore, it's as simple as, if you don't like his recent music, don't listen to it, if you do, fine.

As far as appearing on tv shows, every popstar tries to appear on tv as much as possible to sell their product, Prince is quite restrained in some ways, but he has steadily appeared on TV even back on those early 83-90 days.

Hey, I thought I was the only weirdo out there who could like Pearl Jam AND Prince!

metalorange said:

I agree with that 100%, but... he can reveal himself through his music.

I like listening to "3121", and I think it's well-done. But the problem I have with it is that it's "product." GOOD product, yes. But product.

It's so neat and tidy. Remember the SOTT era? The sound and style of "Dorothy Parker" was the result of a mistake in the studio, essentially. There was distortion in the vocals of "If I was Your Girlfriend." "It's Gonna Be a Beautiful Night" was an odd mix of live and studio work. The whole album was so adventurous and quirky and different. And yet it was still commercial.

Prince has turned into an uber-perfectionist with no sense of adventure in the studio with his last 2 albums. "3121" is so polished and precise that it's hard to FEEL anything in it. Its like eating processed food. Instead of taking risks and being daring, and stretching himself, and taking us to new places, he's content to recycle different elements of his past sound to create a perfect Prince pop album. Funky jam with horn riffs? Check. Stripped down funky single with falsetto voice? Check. Sultry ballad in falsetto? Check. Guitar rocker? Check. It's like a Prince-by-numbers album.

luv4all7 said:

NorthernLad said:

Most of Prince's albums are 'Prince-by-numbers' albums by your checklist - nearly all have songs with falsetto voice, sulrty ballads, guitar rockers thrown together in the mix. The last 2 have not been any better or worse on that front than all those others.

Pop music IS product, therefore if you think it is a 'good product' then it must logically be 'good pop' too!

Albums like Sign O' The Times were those points were Prince was more in the artistic camp than the business camp - and as such, though you might consider it 'still commercial' in fact it sold relatively poorly on first release and has only garnered such praise in later years. The more artistic Prince gets inevitably the less commercial he becomes - it was only a few years back he was releasing such experimental music as TRC, NEWS, Xpectation. Maybe you didn't like those experiments (and I'm not particularly fond of his journey's into jazz-fusion) but you have to admit it was risky and artistic of Prince to put those out there.

Now he's on a commercial curve instead. I much prefer the music to all the jazz. Doesn't mean he can't or won't go in a completely different direction down the line, after he's earned himself some more dough. Calculating? Maybe, it is said that Prince is thinking about albums years in advance. He's always calculating, even when he gives the impression he ain't.

NorthernLad said:

You know, I really don't think he is.

I think he probably recognises his place in popular music history is cemented, and that, looking at the commercial music business today, he can rightly feel a kind of smugness, but I don't think he's under any dellusion that he rules the roost as far as money-making and media kerfuffle goes - He knows the score where the media hype and it's sole purpose of making money is concerned.

Were the shows fan friendly? Are you kidding? He could have NOT done it. Listen, if you are a hardcore Prince fans those concerts were heaven. To get in, they were maybe a donation of $7, usually they were free. What other superstar of Prince's magnitude opens up his place for his fans. Sure, I'm sure it was for Prince, but it was without a doubt a treat for his fans.




Much of Purple Rain was recorded live, however, those live sessions were mixed and polished up. Also, if you don't think that the entire Purple Rain project wasn't calculated-you are kidding yourself. Watch the special features on the DVD, or read up on any of the preparation/promotion done by WB and Prince for Purple Rain. Purple Rain, whether it "feels like it" or not, was a heavily calculated product. It was the right music, the right movie, the right videos, and the right promotion at the right time.
[Edited 5/31/06 12:59pm]

metalorange said:

Agreed.

NorthernLad said:

I dig it too. But I dont think he tried too hard with it. It sounds rushed in places and lazy. Not to mean its shit, the music shines through the production faults. But I reckon he conjured it up pretty quickly. I think he has been spending more time on other acts under his wing. Tamar being the one we know about so far. The others will start popping up in Vegas with him... Just a thought and maybe a reason why he hasnt really been around lately.

skywalker said:

Skywalker I love you! Preach the damn truth!

NouveauDance said:

and yet ironically it can be argued in 2004 thats exactly what Prince was doing , he WAS the most financially successful artist in the US that year as we know and there was a hellofalot of articles about him that year also .
Maybe his ego isnt totally misplaced after all , he knows that he can still command huge live audiences when need be and be as successful as anyone , and on his own terms , wouldnt that give anyone a big head

metalorange said:

But the difference is that those prior Prince albums all ended up that way via the natural creative process. Prince circa 2006 is consciously looking back on his past and creating what he thinks a "Prince" album should be, or what is expected of him. It's contrived, rather than natural expression.

metalorange said:

SOTT was a commercial smash as well as being critically acclaimed. It had 3 Top 10 singles. It is possible to be inspired and commercial at the same time.

metalorange said:

I prefer "3121" to "NEWS" as well - it's not even close. That being said, the album smells of desperation to me. It's like Prince was sitting in his room thinking, "Ok. What do I need to put on this album to really create a great "Prince" album?" rather than just let the songs and music happen. I understand what you are saying regarding being on a "commercial curve" - but there is a difference between deciding to do music that is more accessible but still exciting and risky and different (SOTT, Lovesexy, 1999, Parade, etc), and doing a collection of 12 songs specifically designed to see his name on the Billboard Top 10.

Rebeljuice said:

I dunno.... the album feels very precise and mannered to me. It's a very very very careful album. To me, that would indicate a great deal of time and care.

skywalker said:

Were those something that really benefitted Prince's fans in general? Let's face it: the vast majority of Prince fans would NEVER EVER EVER have a chance to go to one of those mythical late night shows, but they certainly heard all the reports. Does creating an atmosphere of exclusivity really equate to being "Fan Friendly"? It's debatable. Prince has always been fascinated with having a crew, a scene, followers, etc. He likes to snap his fingers, make people wait, and they do it. Did he HAVE to do the shows at random times late at night? Whenever he felt like it? Why did he do it...? Because he could. Those shows were probably fun for him, but they were also a massive ego trip.

skywalker said:

Purple Rain was an ambitious project that they hoped would be successful, and it was. But PR was part of the blueprint. "3121" is looking back on the foundation already laid, and trying to recreate it for commercial gain.

I believe that all of Prince's music is from the heart. Now how much of his heart is in it can be up for debate but I believe that Prince but his whole self into 3121. I don't think he or any other artist has to be raw and unpolished just to be honest and I don't think anyone here is saying that Prince has to be that way either. We should take into account that technology is not the same as it was in 1987 so the music may have a polished sound by default just for better quality.

As for Prince by the numbers, I will admit, I'd like to see a Prince album not try to follow the SOTT's route (which I think Musicology, 3121 and Rave are guilty of) and for that I can see why those who liked TRC liked it. It had a concept and the music flowed with it. But if the SOTT method is done right, then it's great and with the exception of Rave I liked or loved those albums. I just want Prince to bring the funk, artistic or commercial.
[Edited 5/31/06 18:37pm]

purplecam said:

Prince is unmatched, no question about it. He decides he wants to make a great pop song, and it's usually great. But I don't think "3121" or "Musicology" has real heart and feeling in it. That's just how I hear those albums. There is one exception: "Reflections" on "Musicology". Apart from that, I don't feel anything real in the songs.

But that's just how I react to them. I could be wrong.

NorthernLad said:

It's all opinion and perception. Hell I could be wrong too but that's what makes being a fan of his so much fun. You don't sense the heart in those albums but I do. It's all good cause we're still gonna be here to debate it all.

purplecam said:

Well said

I think you have lost your way in this argument. You have now crossed into the area where you claim to know Prince's thoughts and motivations. Claiming that 3121 sounds contrived to you is one thing. However, when you say things like "..(Paisley park concerts) were also a massive ego trip..." and "Prince circa 2006 is consciously looking back on his past and creating what he thinks a "Prince" album should be, or what is expected of him..." your argument has begun to unravel. Truth is, you can only pretend to actually know what the reasoning is for the state of Prince's art. Unless you have a quote from him, or were sitting with him when he made 3121, and for that matter Purple Rain, you are just making shit up.

Again, you are welcome to you opinion that 3121 is contrived, but please don't try to act like you know the reasons for or behind Prince's actions or motivation. It's too much speculation for what was once a fairly decent argument. Also, I don't see 3121 in anyway following the blue print layed out by Purple Rain. They are two entirely different albums. 3121 only has one rock trak even on it. Nice try though.
[Edited 5/31/06 19:16pm]

skywalker said:

I said PR was part of the blueprint.

I am telling you how I react to "3121" and "Musicology"; they sound like premeditated and soulless attempts to capture commercial success to me. I am also interpreting Prince's actions and how I see them. That is, after all, a huge part of what's discussed on a message board. You may disagree with my interpretations, and that is your prerogative.

But I don't understand what you are saying. You say that saying an album is "contrived" is fine, but saying "Prince circa 2006 is consciously looking back on his past and creating what he thinks a "Prince" album should be, or what is expected of him..." is not? Aren't they the same thing? One is explaining and expanding on the other.
[Edited 5/31/06 19:35pm]

Still don't see how Prince followed the "blue print" for Purple Rain in making 3121.



See the bold partabove--you didn't frame it this way originally.


Again, one is stating your own feelings about the album, the other is hanging your own feelings on Prince and attaching your own bias and pretending to "know" him. It's one thing to give us your opinion of an album, it's a bit of creative writing to pretend to know what frame of mind the artist was/is in while making the album. All I am saying is that your interpretation stretched a bit too much. The part that tripped me up is when you claimed to know that Paisley Park parties were "mainly about soothing Prince's ego". Like I said- your speculation spun a bit out of control. No hard feelings or anything like that
[Edited 5/31/06 19:56pm]

skywalker said:

I think that's a reasonable assumption. Why else would Prince do those shows the way he did? It's not all about the ego, but ego certainly seemed to drive the method he went about those shows. There's nothing earthshattering about saying that... Prince's ego has always been gigantic.

I don't think I'm pretending to "know" Prince. I just think you can come to certain conclusions based on his work and his actions.

NorthernLad said:

If I can add to this, what if we are wrong about Prince and his actions or intentions? If his motives were to do those parties so that his ego should be stroked, should that stop anyone from having a good time because of it and the same with his music? I'm not saying that that's what you meant by that but it's just up for discussion and I'm interested in your take on that NL.

purplecam said:

It doesn't stop me from enjoying "3121", but I think there is this "wall" in Prince's music now that didn't exist before. I don't think it's possible to connect with something that's contrived and something completely visceral in the same way. At least, that's how it is for me as a music fan. I tend to react better to things like Tori Amos, or Radiohead, Pearl Jam, etc - artists that really give you their ALL in their music, emotionally. Prince at his best is like that. I still enjoy "3121", but I enjoy it in the same way that I like N Sync or Duran Duran. It's fun pop music, but hard to connect with.

As for the parties, I think alot of Prince fans recognize, enjoy and almost take pride in his ego. They share it when it comes to Prince I would certainly enjoy being at one of those parties or shows, but I don't consider them particularly "fan friendly" in a broad sense.
[Edited 5/31/06 20:18pm]