andykeen said:

Genuine - vinyl mint.

Yes

1987 ... Certainly

However, you are more likely to find a fake/bootleg

Try checking:

http://sleevographia2.free.fr/

and

http://www.housequake.com...adid=50755

for starters

.

andykeen said:

Chances of finding a genuine 1987 black album in an old record shop is only
slightly higher than zero. The reason being that no advance copies went out
and the only copies that exist came though sources that were fully aware of
it's value. So there's just no way that someone could be in possession of the
real deal and not know that it was valuable.

BorisFishpaw said:

Right... just recently I was lucky enough to get my hands on a genuine German 1987 copy. Cover ex+, vinyl mint-. The guy I got it from has been working at the manufacturing facility in Alsdorf/Germany (just some 20 km from where I lived then, btw). Now he runs a record store and sold the record for a former colleague of him.

We talked for a while, and you know, I always thought some employees there just fetched a box of Black Albums or so and happened to get out with it. Maybe this is still true but I didn't know TBA was sold at an internal shop for employees for a very short time - as it is with all records produced.

So, anyone who got a copy before it was wiped from the shelves has been quite lucky.

Obviously, my copy has only been played once. You can see the marks near the center hole where the pin of the turntable slid along. Otherwise no marks of play or usage.

And yes, I checked intensively with sleevographia (thx! ). Otherwise, maybe there are some better counterfeit manufacturers around right now - see the 3121 double vinyl.

wsenges said:

What do you mean? Is the 3121 double LP a counterfeit?

Rebeljuice said:

See Housequake: http://www.housequake.com...adid=61490

Be prepared, it's a loooong thread. And confusing at some times. Last results are that it is sold as "Limited edition radio promo" (whatever that is) at retailers even.

But some people who should know (because of their proved direct contacts to Universal (USA) have info there is *no* such thing as an official album release on vinyl. This is a quoted statement of the Senior Product Marketing Manager.

Also, the release seems to bear the FBI warning which usually only US releases display. On the other hand, retailers are claiming it has been manufactured in the UK (statement version 1) or in Germany (statement version 2).

Moreover, I ordered my copies long ago at jpc, a retailer in Germany, which I would describe as reliable. However, though the double vinyl release is all over the place, I have yet to receive a notice it's being delivered to me.

Then again (see my posting on Housequake ("violet" over there), there are sometimes crazy things happening... once I was able to acquire a double CD by Aimee Mann on ebay. It looked perfect but anyone told me it's a fake (common CD enhanced with extras) - I spoke to other collectors AND Aimee's management. "No, this CD is not legal." BUT: it had the tiny logo of the manufacturing facility which I contacted. And yes, it definitely had been ordered to be made by some woman at BMG, Aimee's label at that time.

Now this most probably has been a pre-production teaser/test pressing. Yet in case of the 3121 vinyl, there's a large amount of copies.

So in my eyes, and evaluating which information comes from which person, I must say... it's a good fake. Or something's going TERRIBLY wrong between Universal USA and Universal Europe.

Wolf

wsenges said:

Well, its all a bit confusing then. I ordered a copy yesterday from here:
http://www.netsoundsmusic.../9999.html

And also found it on sale in the US here:
http://www.amusicdirect.c...IP3121%2D2

I guess i'll just have to wait and see if it arrives and what it looks like I guess...

andykeen said:

if you found an original legit promo vinyl for lets say 100 dallors, you could make your money back. because around 1995 (i think can't really remember the year), a promo vinyl sold at a music aution for $19,000.

tripp said:

These it's being sold for much less... thanks to ebay. See sleevographia. It ranges from about 500-1250 EUR within the past four years. One copy apparently has even been sold for less than 100 EUR - yet without original (stickered) cover.

It's the test pressings, US versions, CDs... and the acetates that fetch MUCH higher prices. Of course.

Wolf

wsenges said:

How much did you pay for it?

I'd be very suprised if a real copy was still floating around. I've been offered about 3 copies from "people in the know" who all claim they were around at the time or worked at the label/manufacturer/distributor etc.

In fact, I would expect that the bootleggers would have made a perfect copy by now.

The quality of some of the boots is getting very good now. The MPLS single, Gett Off Birthday 12", The War CD, Apollonia and Vanity 6, Madhouse 8 and 16. Some of them are almost flawless.

The toy market is a good example too. The bootleggers are getting so good, they are actually pushing the cost of the genuine article down because its becoming hard to prove they are fake.

I love Le Grind!

PimpandCircumstance said:

PimpandCircumstance said:

It's in my top 10 of prince songs so far.

andykeen said:

All the new albums are scratch resistant.

Take a needle or razor to it. If it scratches, it's an original.

Imago said:

you are horrible...

sosgemini said:

SquirrelMeat said:

Scanning... Will be back this evening.

Also, in fact although it is in near mint condition (the vinyl) you can see it's not *new* - if you know what I mean. Sounds crazy, I know. Some dust etc.

Moreover, *IF* there are new bootlegs of TBA around they can't be distributed like something like, let's say the 3121 double LP (if it's a counterfeit). People know there are only a few around. So even if a bootlegger gets lots of money for one copy it wouldn't pay... the amount of copies which can be sold is just too low to make business out of it.

@Imago: Also, of course I did the scratch test... the scratch looks just perfect. Cuts fine and deep. So I'm sure it's for real.


Wolf
[Edited 6/3/06 9:32am]

Imago said:

Sorry, took me longer than expected.

So here are pics of both labels and one of the sticker (which shows where the condition is worst - there's been a sharp bend to the cover it seems). Since I want to avoid enabling people to manufacture counterfeits based on high resolution pictures they're scaled down and watermarked.

Though there are more pics at sleevographia of course which are matching with mine.

Yet I've added another feature. My pics mark the positions of etchings on both sides.

While side A has three etchings (plus serial-no.), side B has only two (again plus serial-no.).

A - Etching 1: a two-digit number
A - Etching 2: a two character initial
A - Etching 3: one character
A - SerialNo: purely stamped

B - Etching 1: a two character initial
B - Etching 2: one character
B - SerialNo: stamped *plus* one hand written character

I will check with some orgers who might check back and prove if I'm wrong - or right. I'm going to ask them posting here.

Combined with the relative positioning of all etchings to each other, and if necessary some additional scans (which I don't want to share publicly due to the reasons mentioned above) we should come to a result.

The pics (also to be found at http://wsenges.photosite....Album1987/:

Side1



Side2



Sticker

Okaaayyy...

Got response from two other people calling TBA their own.

It turns out to be more complicated than it should be. Thing is - as with all vinyls - several die plates were used.

As for now, the only marks all three copies have in common are

- serial no. on side A
- serial no. on side B
(which should not be that surprising...)

- and the two character initial on both sides

A - Etching 1: a two-digit number: missing elsewhere
A - Etching 3: one character: existent, but maybe different character
B - Etching 2: one character: existent, but maybe different character

Also, the hand written character following the serial no. on both sides can differ. Moreover, it's sometimes 0/1/2 characters which follow behind.

More information is always welcome. Just pm me.

Wolf

That's one thing I'm really not into--old albums, no matter how rare. I would just sell the thing and spend the bank..lol

2freaky4church1 said:

Ah man... no drugs can do or mean anything to mean. No heavy drugs, no smoking, no alcohol (well, ok, a glass of wine every now and then). BUT. Collecting records and... CRISPS. Couldn't live without it. lol...

I heard that it's worth like...alot.

i was in germany from sep 89 to oct 94. i would take the train all around to see friends. one day i was in the train station in Nurenberg, there was a old school record shop in there. i lucked up and found the black album on wax. i didnt know how special it would be. i let a friend listen to it and she dropped something on it and it broke. i thought i was going to be in jail 4 the rest of my life. The beautiful always smash the picture!!!!! not sure if it was a copy or not Damn thats cold!!!!!

speed0187 said:

Awww. Too bad

I guess it's been a counterfeit... so just relieve. I did buy myself more than one copy of them around then. Somewhere I think I still have even an orange one (NOT the original from 1994).

My first Black Album must have been the French one that has all tracks covered by a studio group.

Btw: "my first Black Album"... Now THAT sounds really stooopid. Other people buy their first record, they remember their first GF/BF. It's the Prince freakos who close their eyes and sigh... ah - y'know, way back in the days when I bought my first BA...