wonder505 said:

Thanks for the applause... I think. But I don't want you to go. I may have misread the post. I guess my point is ... and has always been... that I think Prince does care. I know what he has said in the past, but I think there is a reason more than just sales that he performed on A.I. Or maybe the reason was sales, and he was trying to make a point??? I just don't think that he begrudges those kids who are trying their damndest to make it. They just are trying to have their shot. I can't even begrudge the kids, and believe me, I'm not much of a pop fan. It's just NOT what I'm into, but then again I can't deny that some of pop artists have talent. Those kids on that show, even Clay Aiken with his issues, have talent.

I just think it's complicated. . I wish I could be as open-minded about Madonna, but I can't. I think for me, her dissing Americans was the last straw in an internal battle that I have been having. At least Prince hasn't gone there. I do want the artists that I support to stand for something or nothing, ya know what I mean????

Isel said:

You know, you have written the best post in this thread. You are very right. When rumors first started about Prince being on AI, I too was very much against it and expressed it as such (I was afraid of them butchering Prince's song). But you know what, as much as I do not care for AI, I should at least have a little compassion for those kids, talent or not, who are just trying to get their big chance and make it. I have a cousin who belongs to a group operating like a one stop shop indepedently and believe me, it is very very difficult and expensive in trying to make a break into the music industry. This is not to stay that record companies or winning AI are the answer either, but like you said, it's complicated.

Perhaps he felt a little compassion for those kids, maybe it was just for sales or maybe he felt uncomfortable with fans putting him on this "AI is below him " pedestle, whatever the case, I just don't believe that Prince's intentions are ill-willed. He may not care for the system through which AI operates but I believe that he cares enough to inspire the people within that system through his music. There was a lot of buzz on the AI message board about his performance, maybe alot people who were not into him before will start looking into his music and learn what real musicianship is about.

Isel said:

Now you know that's too much like right. He's a member of the bitter fan club. Members of that club have a love/hate relationship with Prince. They will never move on from Prince because they Love to Hate Him.

Anx said:

what makes you think he was coerced? has something come out since wednesday suggesting that?

i do think its interesting that universal's wishlist included oprah, letterman, leno, mtv, bet, concert specials, a tour, etc and none of it has materialized. most likely the non-occurrence of these things is probably prince induced.

sallysassalot said:

As we are already speculating about the reason for the performance, I can't believe that no one has played this card so far: the TAMAR album! We know its release has been postponed, we know it's going to be on Universal, we know that Prince and Tamar did some additional work on it.

Could it be that Prince did the AI performance as part of a deal with Universal so they will release Tamar's album? Maybe the Universal people were not satisfied with it and didn't want to release it, and in order to change their minds Prince made the concession to perform on AI to boost 3121 sales (so they could at least make some more profit of that).

My reason for this speculation is that Prince normally doesn't do things he's not comfortable with. If there was a contractual obligation in the Universal deal saying "you have to do promotion for the record", he could probably have fulfilled that with some perfomances on Leno or whatever. I can't imagine he signed a deal in December saying "you have to do AI".

This thread is all sorts of retarded. You can hate on AI or Prince or Madonna or whomever or whatever else you deem unworthy of your approval, but come on now. No one is above hypocrisy. No one is free from contradiction. No one does what they say and practice what they preach all the time.

With enough scrutiny anyone and everyone can be exposed as being a complete and utter imposter.

padawan said:

That's very true. No one is perfect. We all have are little or huge contradictions or hypocrisies. But, I thought we were discussing whether Prince "sold-out" on this particular issue.

Actually, I think that this discussion has been quite interesting just because so many people view his actions differently. In fact, I would think that we would all view each other's actions quite differently. When all is said and done though, it's Prince who has to live with himself just as we all have to live with our choices.

Isel said:

This discussion is interesting if you think throwing stones at people is interesting.

Now what would truly be of interest is if anyone here has actually had the opportunity to be on American Idol or sell their art to a corporation for millions AND TURNED IT DOWN.

Otherwise, accusations of selling out are all hot air. Until you've had your own integrity put to the test, don't be so quick to judge the integrity of others.

BartVanHemelen said:

Come on... what you really mean is that you think Prince should be doing this on your terms. There is no indication that he's doing anything he doesn't want to do. Whatever his reasons to perform in Vegas this summer, it's clear he doesn't need the city like a typical Vegas act. He had the biggest tour two years ago... not bad for a washed up act.

Besides it's so juvenile how some people expect their heroes to be frozen in time at their rebellious best.

padawan said:

Oh, I think Prince can take it. After all he's been called a lot worse than a sell-out. lol People thought he was crazy a la M.J.(poor Michael) for a while when he changed his name to a symbol. A lot of people still think he's crazy. Plus he puts himself out there. He expresses his opinions on certain issues, and people-particularly his fans--take notice. So it's understandable that some fans and critics might be confused. I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing Prince on A.I., and his motives behind his appearance. I was sure a shocked when he walked out. I love him though even though I might not agree with all of his decisions or opinions. But in this case, I didn't see it as selling-out. So I was very happy to seem him.

I always have to say a little something positive about Michael J. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I just think that people have been merciless as far as riciduling him. Yeah maybe he is ultimately responsible for that,but at the same time, I think that people could show a little restraint as well.
[Edited 5/27/06 10:19am]

I copied this from another thread because I believe what I wrote over there is just as fitting for this thread.

Peace

WAIT -

Why is he a sell out? The man performed a song or two on a television show just like he did on SNL, Oprah, David L., Jay L., Arsenio H., The Muppets and every award show. Whats the differance? He went on a show that has 50 million viewers and promoted 3121. Everyone here has been cryin' about the lack of promotion and now he does it he's a "sell-out"? the brotha can do what he wants and you can say what you want but I just find it weird that people call him a sell out. does he say one thing and do another??? Of course he does but its a business and he may want to try something and then find out it might not work or maybe he doesn't feel like a huge tour and jsut wants to chill. We all say one thing and then do another...we're human and he is too.

DenverMoon said:

This site is for "Fans". If you don't like him don't pay attention to him! I'm a fan and I don't want to hear your negative Bullshit.

prime said:

AMEN, Prime, Right on.

Isel said:

Yes, I’ll say that I think people who like American Idol have bad taste (that doesn’t make them bad people or mean they have bad taste in everything, but TV shows, yes). I have absolutely no clue how people can sit and watch that completely horrid excuse for a talent show. Just because millions of people like/watch/buy something does not mean it’s good. Admittedly, I’m a bit of an art and culture snob; I think all sorts of things “a lot of people really love” are lame: the commercialization/Disney-fication of Times Square makes me sick, art museum exhibitions ending in the gift shops, the obsession with Brangelina/TomKat/Britney, the crap movies that Hollywood produces, etc. I find it all extremely tacky and tasteless…



I understand the point you are making and that is exactly why I think Prince + Vegas = Bad. Vintage Elton John is great, but I can’t stand the sappy, show tune, “can you feel the love tonight” Elton. Wayne Newton, talented or not, is the epitome of what people think of when they think of tacky, cheesy Vegas. Tom Jones—when’s the last time he’s been relevant in music? (I don’t follow his career, I think he’s gross.) Celine Dion do you really want to compare Celine Dion to Prince? Yes she can sing, I think most people on this site would agree she is completely uncool. Yes these singer may all be talented, genius, etc. but metaphorically speaking, Vegas is where singers go to die. I do not want Prince to become a joke on the Vegas Strip. (Aside: I think Prince was booed when he opened for the Rolling Stones early in his career.)




I understand that Prince is nearly 50 and I wouldn’t want him to be crawling/writhing around on the floor, humping the microphone while singing Head. He would look ridiculous. I just think him setting up camp in Vegas for him and special guest performers will be a schmaltzy “Prince & Friends” Las Vegas Review… will the ticket price include a buffet in back?

In closing, popular is not synonymous with good and just because Elton, Celine, Madonna, RHCP, etc perform there does not make it cool.

DBW said:

where did DenverMoon's post say s/he wasn't a fan? Just because one questions/disagrees with something Prince does does not automatically mean one is not a fan.

jone70 said:

I agree with a lot of your stuff, but I simply don't like to pre-judge on this topic too much, for the simple reason that Prince is too unpredictable. Prior to the SNL performance, we had threads here saying how in the world he ever could do TAC live on SNL, by people who exactly knew he would play it, and we all know how that ended up. After the NEWS album, I was sure Prince would never make a mainstream record again - we know how that ended up. After "Rave", I didn't expect him to take artistic risks again - look at TRC. If there's one thing I've learned about Prince, then it is only to evaluate his work after he has delivered. Vegas doesn't give me much enthusiasm either, but I wait and see what the outcome might be. A tour maybe?

anon said:

Sounds like a cadre of young heads clinging to old paradigms of what's supposed to be hip.
(especially when coupled with the grumblings about his possible summer Vegas residency)

But like the old song says, What Is Hip?...

You went and found you a guru.
In an effort to find you a new you,
And maybe even manage to raise your conscious level.

While you're striving to find the right road,
There's one thing you should know,
"What's hip today, might become passe'."

...



tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

jone70 said:[quote]

Isel said:

You make some interesting points...But, like most folks, you are jumping the gun on this one...Can people actually wait until the midget performs before they judge the guy...Furthermore, performing at a intimate club and performing at a resort/Casino is two different platforms...But more importantly, from all the news that's been coming out, the Vegas shows are more jam oriented than "Wayne Newton and Elton John..." You have it all wrong: Vegas is not the place where singers go to die; They die at the corporate resorts and Casinos; and still that's according to who is actually doing the performing (For a vocalist like Toni Braxton the "casino" Vegas makes perfect sense..)...

But here's the million dollar question: What happens when Prince comes out during his residency at the Vegas gig and performs a guitar-driven gig with lots of rare songs and a rock-funk heavy sets? (Which has been reported by some trusted sources...)...In other words, it makes no sense shitting on dude now...Wait until the actual performances....

sallysassalot said:

reading the reports of how they didn't know if prince was going to show up, and when he did, he was literally in and out of the auditorium in about six minutes (and didn't speak to a soul), PLUS the scripture reference that day on NPGMC...it kinda puts the pieces together for me.

murph said:[quote]

jone70 said:

On spot! The reason for the Vegas decision might be very simple. It's reported that his tenancy in the L.A. mansion ends in May, and maybe he doesn't feel like going on the road right now and prefers to stay in one place. Maybe he just wants a change and doesn't want L.A. anymore. Who knows what he will play? Maybe the sets will be interesting, and if there will be bootlegs, you can be sure that the same people who are completely upset now by the Vegas stuff will give their lives to get their hands on them.

Anx said:

Could be, but if it's really possible that he was forced to do it, why are people so upset about it then?

EmancipationLover said:

cuz some people are slow on the uptake, and other people just like a reason to bitch about prince for the sport of it.

Anx said:

and some people are just tired of prince signing deals then complaining about them.

sallysassalot said:

Yeah, but if you look some posts back, you know my theory about that.

EmancipationLover said:

since there's a million posts on this thread could you refresh my memory?

Anx said:

I wonder if you become better at it with the use of anabolic steroids?


tA

Tribal Disorder

http://www.soundclick.com...dID=182431

sallysassalot said:

No problem:

As we are already speculating about the reason for the performance, I can't believe that no one has played this card so far: the TAMAR album! We know its release has been postponed, we know it's going to be on Universal, we know that Prince and Tamar did some additional work on it.

Could it be that Prince did the AI performance as part of a deal with Universal so they will release Tamar's album? Maybe the Universal people were not satisfied with it and didn't want to release it, and in order to change their minds Prince made the concession to perform on AI to boost 3121 sales (so they could at least make some more profit of that).

My reason for this speculation is that Prince normally doesn't do things he's not comfortable with. If there was a contractual obligation in the Universal deal saying "you have to do promotion for the record", he could probably have fulfilled that with some perfomances on Leno or whatever. I can't imagine he signed a deal in December saying "you have to do AI".

EmancipationLover said:

thanks for repeating yourself, i appreciate it!

i think your possible reasoning may be all well and good but it doesn't change the fact that he made the deal. when he went to universal he surely went there with the knowledge of his Tamar side project. he probably signed a deal that would guarantee a release for Tamar and if not...oh well. that's his bad business decision. for me, its a turn off when prince behaves as unprofessional as he did with the whole AI thing. what would he do if someone kept him waiting until the last minute? would he wait or would he simply say, "they lose out" and walk away? why was it so bad for prince to talk to those people on the show? i would think if you want to make an impression on someone in the biz the best way to do it is to actually talk to them and make a positive impression as opposed to acting like you are some kind of king.

whatever his reasons for doing the show, financial gain or deal clincher, his behavior is tiresome and childish. now i wish he'd shut the heck up with his bible banter. he gives jehovah's witnesses a bad name.

sallysassalot said:

According to this thread

http://www.prince.org/msg/7/190305

his diva behaviour is not as confirmed as we thought.

EmancipationLover said:

if this is the case, i'm a little relieved. regardless of what someone thinks of a job, if you choose to do it you should be respectful to those also working that job with you. this goes for anything from tv to custodial work.

i suppose we'll never really know the full deal. all we can go on is prince's history...and that has a tendency to go against prince. i still think positng that bible verse and then peddling yourself on the show like that is stupid. if you choose to do it, just do it. don't talk shit about it before hand as though you are performing a charity act or something. the bottom line is ol' boy wanted...no, needed...to sell some records and he found a great way to do it.