>> > Since the Pledge of Allegiance
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > The Lord's Prayer
>> >
>> > are not allowed in most
>> >
>> > public schools anymore
>> >
>> > because the word "God" is mentioned...
>> >
>> > a kid in Arizona wrote the attached
>> >
>> > NEW
>> >
>> > School
>> >
>> > prayer.
>> >
>> > I liked it...
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Now I sit me down in school
>> >
>> > Where praying is against the rule
>> >
>> > For this great nation under God
>> >
>> > Finds mention of Him very odd.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If Scripture now the class recites,
>> >
>> > It violates the Bill of Rights.
>> >
>> > And anytime my head I bow
>> >
>> > Becomes a Federal matter now.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Our hair can be purple, orange or green,
>> >
>> > That's no offense; it's a freedom scene.
>> >
>> > The law is specific, the law is precise.
>> >
>> > Prayers spoken aloud are a serious vice.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > For praying in a public hall
>> >
>> > Might offend someone with no faith at all.
>> >
>> > In silence alone we must meditate,
>> >
>> > God's name is prohibited by the state.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We're allowed to cuss and dress like freaks,
>> >
>> > And pierce our noses, tongues and cheeks.
>> >
>> > They've outlawed guns, but FIRST the Bible.
>> >
>> > To quote the Good Book makes me liable.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We can elect a pregnant Senior Queen,
>> >
>> > And the 'unwed daddy,' our Senior King.
>> >
>> > It's "inappropriate" to teach right from wrong,
>> >
>> > We're taught that such "judgments" do not belong.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > We can get our condoms and birth controls,
>> >
>> > Study witchcraft, vampires and totem poles.
>> >
>> > But the Ten Commandments are not allowed,
>> >
>> > No word of God must reach this crowd.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > It's scary here I must confess,
>> >
>> > When chaos reigns the school's a mess.
>> >
>> > So, Lord, this silent plea I make:
>> >
>> > Should I be shot; My soul please take!
>> >
>> > Amen
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > If you aren't ashamed to do this,
>> >
>> > please pass this on.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Jesus said,
>> >
>> > " If you are ashamed of me,"
>> >
>> > I will be ashamed of you before my Father."
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Not ashamed. Passing this on . .

BLEEEAUUURGH!!

Pure melodrama...

(Not to mention, alot of what this is saying is not even accurate)

"The sky is falling, the sky is falling"!

Nep2nes said:

What the fuck do totem poles have to do with anything?

Continuing my new experiment with posting song lyrics for every occasion... here are the lyrics to a little ditty by one of my all-time favorites, Dead Kennedys:

MORAL MAJORITY

You call yourself the Moral Majority
We call ourself the people in the real world
Trying to rub us out, but we're going to survive
God must be dead if you're alive

You say, 'God loves you. Come and buy the Good News'
Then you buy the president and swimming pools
If Jesus don't save 'til we're lining your pockets
God must be dead if you're alive

Circus-tent con-men and Southern belle bunnies
Milk your emotions then they steal your money
It's the new dark ages with the fascists toting bibles
Cheap nostalgia for the Salem Witch Trials

Stodgy ayatollahs in their dobble-knit ties
Burn lots of books so they can feed you their lies
Masturbating with a flag and a bible
God must be dead if you're alive

Blow it out your ass, Jerry Falwell
Blow it out your ass, Jesse Helms
Blow it out your ass, Ronald Reagan
What's wrong with a mind of my own?

You don't want abortions, you want battered children
You want to ban the pill as if that solves the problem
Now you wanna force us to pray in school
God must be dead if you're such a fool

You're planning for a war with or without Iran
Building a police state with the Klu Klux Klan
Pissed at your neighbour? Don't bother to nag
Pick up the phone and turn in a fag

Blow it out your ass, Terry Dolan
Blow it out your ass, Phyllis Schlafly
Ram it up your cunt, Anita
Cos God must be dead
If you're alive
God must be dead
If you're alive

"If God were alive he'd hate you, too."

Nep2nes said:

if our government said that religion was allowed in school, then all religions would have to be taught (so as to be equal) as fact, and that would upset people, who felt that the ones they didn't believe in were wrong. Christianity isn't the only religion you know... if the government called us a christian government, then we could tecach only christianity as a fact. but we would also set the country up for religious wars. al these 'awful things' that this kid has cited, strange hair, pregnant prom queen and kings, body piercings. these are only wrong in his eyes. religion and government do not mix, pray before school already. BTW, i am a christian, and still I do not think this is right. Not mixing religion and school is not saying that god is bad and no-god is good. it is just better for all of us to keep them seperate. you can still hold god with you all day long, and you still can meditate silently. to connect with God you do not have to have the whole school connecting with you. our forefathers made seperation of church and state because they're generation, and the generation before theirs were familiar with what religious wars could do. the thirty years war was only a hundred years before. look at Afganhistan. they use their religion to spread violence, they make it impossible to live freely in their country. we must respect other people's opinions in a federal building at least.

I couldn't really concentrate on the original post in this thread because I was too busy having anal sex with my Satanist boyfriend while reading Nietsche and listening to a Captain Beefheart album. In fact, I have to cut this post short because I think my Alistair Crowley brand microwave burritos are ready to eat. Yum yum!

Anxiety said:

Didn't you say that you lovingly refer to your bedroom as the Abbey of Thelema?

:LOL:

IceNine said:

U honestly can't xpect any respect without giving me some..and I certainly don't think that that song by the No-Names is respectful.

PEACE

Just pray at home. is that so hard for people to do? schools have enough bullshit to deal with than whether little johnny wants to pray in school or not.

Little johnny can't read, his sister wears less clothes then a street hooker, mom spends more time shopping than at home, and dad's at work til 10PM...and prayer will save the day? Not in my neighborhood.

Nep2nes said:

I certainly do respect your views and opinions... even if I don't agree with them.

By the way, Dead Kennedys are certainly not "no-names." They were one of the most intelligent, influential and important bands of the late seventies and the eighties.

The singer/songwriter for the band, Jello Biafra is a very well-known figure.

http://ubl.artistdirect.c...d+Kennedys

Yuck. Sounds like something a more literate Nep2nes would write.

IceNine said:

HMMM

THAT SONG TAKE WORST EXAMPLES OF FAITH

FROM SEVERAL DIFFERENT TIME PERIODS

AND OFFERS NO ACCURATE VIEW OF GOD

IT JUST AS SENSATIONAL AT NEP2NES POST

TO GET POINT ACROSS

JUST ON DIFFERENT SIDE

OK POOK BRAIN HURT NOW

CANNOT EVEN SPELL

OKE POKK GOT OO BED KNOW

bla bla bla

korovyov said:

Just thought I'd bring this post up again in case anyone missed, because I thought it made a lot more sense than any other post here, Although I do love those Dead Kennedy's lyrics. no-name group, lol. Too funny!

You know what, I don't even know why I responded to this. It's guaranteed to be a war, and I try to stay clear of these. oops. Oh well, that'll teach me.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 23 17:25:21 PDT 2002 by savoirfaire]

mrchristian said:

He should b able 2 pray anywhere. Y not? Freedom of religion right?

It's not like we put a gun 2 any1's head and force them 2 pray or acknowledge God. If what we do makes them feel uncomfortable, perhaps they should check THEIR morals at the door. Y b insecure?

This country was founded based on Christian ideals. The first people who came here were fleeing religious persecution and guess what they were? Christians.

If u cannot acknowledge that Christianity WAS the foundation 4 MANY of our documents--then u simply shouldn't live here. If u can't pledge ALLEGIANCE--u shouldn't b here. Y? Because allegiance is loyalty--and if u ain't loyal than what r u? Livin' off a system u don't agree with?

Christianity is in ur life more than u think...if u want religious anonymity, perhaps u should go 2 communist Cuba. Communists don't believe in God...or at least, they don't want YOU 2.

Look at ur money--what's it say? Look at the Constitution--what's it say? It mentions God. Wake up, altho' we may not have an official religion in this country, it most certainly would b Christianity logistically and based on history.

So I'm not sayin' convert...but I AM saying, u can't change history or the foundation of the whole nation.

PEACE.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 23 17:44:22 PDT 2002 by Nep2nes]

PopcornFetus said:

Think about it..SOME people (not I) believe that totem poles r rituals of pagans..yet we r still taught that. So y not have a simple mention of God in our pledge?

POOK--my post was not sensational. Try 2 disprove anything it said

Nep2nes said:

no, that is not necessarily so. freedom of religion is not unlimited. If you go and sit in front of my doorstep and pray all day i may have enough rights infringed to have you removed. Prayer is not and should never be prohibited, but it is best when it's done in the private sphere and not regularly openly in public


well an allegiance is rather forcefull. If you don't pledge everybody, including you, is looking at the silent ones like they are some fucking terrorists or communist or other sick explanation you can come up with.



well the US Constitution and the Declaration of Independence really are a lot more subtle than that. if you like to learn some more about it... read my post on the Phill Donahue thread...




gee... are your parents some pair of fucking ultra right conservatives???
your country is based on freedom of religion. This does not only mean that you are free to believe in a "God". It also means that you are free to do not and be left alone by your "God".

you are so terribly fucking ignorant, it's hard to believe you are not kidding.




FOOL! your constitution does not mention "God"... it mentions freedom of religion!




apparently YOU can! you lying piece of ignorant shit.





you don't know what that means.

Abrazo said:

Well of course Im not going 2 pray on ur doorstep---now ur bringing property rights in2 this. Of COURSE I can't b on ur property, whether I'm praying or not...but in a place like school, I should b able 2 pray.

Just because u think "it is best when it's done in the private sphere and not regularly openly in public" doesn't mean every Christian is going 2 change their mind and say "Oh yes! Abrazo was right!" Again, that's an opinion. prayer sees no boundaries.

Our allegiance was never forceful..do you know what our allegiance was? Probably not. U'd probably have 2 do a search 4 it and copy and paste it here right? Well, I'll tell u what it was...it was a beautiful piece of writing that was meant 2 instill in young Americans the sense of duty they have living in a free nation "under God"...and it IS under God 4 the reasons I listed above--which u failed 2 disprove. As much as u hate it, u must admit that we r based on Christian ideas and the first Christian people who fled 2 come here.

No1 was forced 2 do it...I have a friend who didn't want 2 do it, and altho' he was asked by other classmates y, he was never forced 2 do it.

When asked y, he really could only say vague things like "I don't believe in some of the things this country does"..well, NOONE is going 2 agree with EVERYTHING!

Which brings 2 mind Prince's lyrics: "Jimmy Nothing never went 2 school, they made him pledge allegiance, he said it wasn't cool...nothing made Jimmy proud..now Jimmy lives on a mushroom cloud"

Now, I've always taken those lyrics 2 b in FAVOR of the pledge, not against it. I don't think prince said those words 4 nothing. He must have witnessed youth that were like this.



4 some1 who lives in Brazil u sure know a lot more about my country than I do, huh? It's a well-known fact, and it IS correct...regardless of what u might like 2 believe.




And ur parents must be a pair of ultra-liberals. C? I can play the same game 2--it's just words 2 me. This has nothing 2 do with politics...I'm not ultra-anything...this is my own thinking.



That doesn't mean that we should wipe out our whole history and the fact that our history IS predominantly from a Christian standpoint. If u take away the pledge, u'll have 2 take away our currency then. ("In God We Trust")

Slowly u c traditions of unity in our country being wiped out. The pledge was created 4 unity. Slowly u c a few people becoming in control of everything..and slowly this country becomes shittier and shittier when we listen 2 morally ambiguous people.

Ever heard the Japanese saying, "The castle falls from within"? Well, this is what's happening. All our symbols of unity such as the pledge, all our traditions (which were symbols of continuity) r being deleted. And soon this country is going 2 destroy itself, and when it does, I'll blame it on people like u, who have no respect 4 things MOST of us hold dearly.

Look at all the polls---most people didn't want this 2 happen...but a couple of people ruined it 4 every1.

P.S. I can be a lying piece of ignorant shit but unless ur God I doubt ur words mean anything 2 me.

so if god is for the US, is he against all the other countries in the world? or if he is for everyone, is he happy to see us killing each other in wars?

perty crazy.

AND...

Let's not 4get that Muslims r required 2 pray towards Mecca 3 times a day...no matter where they r

r u saying that they should have 2 run home each time?

It seems that all the animosity is aimed at the Christians..well, the truth will always b opposed, I guess.

.
[This message was edited Wed Jul 24 22:54:07 PDT 2002 by Nep2nes]

apollonia7 said:

I'm not sure who ur directing this 2 but I don't feel it's a good guy/bad guy issue. It's not as clear-cut.


And I'm not really talking about wars..lol...I'll save that 4 another thread...I'm talking about how our own country's pledge was banned.

WTF!!! Communists don't believe in God? First of all that's the most stupid thing I've ever heard and second who the fuck do you think you are demonizing the people of Cuba?! Cubans do not infringe their religion on Americans so just what the hell kind of blanket statement is that? By the way you probably don't know the first thing about communism, otherwise you wouldn't be typing such stupid things.

Christianity is not the only religion in the world and it's certainly not one everyone should be following or we're all in a heap of trouble. Learn your history, the founding fathers of this country did not come up with everything on their own (they were too blinded by the bible) most of the ideals in the constitution were borrowed from Native Americans you know like, "all men are created equal." Do you actually think there was no outside influence there? Please! I don't think they understood what equality was, obviously.

Your holyer than thou attitude is just plain funny. Good try though.

It's weird but my daughter just started school this past week and in the book they give all students at the begining of the year it stated that the Pledge would be recited ach morning. Now the first day she went in I was talking to her teacher and asked her if this was still going to happen. She said that it would and that if any parent did not want their kids to participate then they would have to make it clear so that they could find the best way to remove the child from the offensive situation without bringing attention to the matter. Now there are also several Muslim children in her school, 2 in her pre-K class alone, and when they are supposed to pray toward Mecca they are allowed to leave and they all meet in the gym. For all the students know they are excused for personal reasons. Now of course that will only work while in the early grades but they also focus on equality of religion in her school when the students reach 3rd grade if their parents agree to it. They also have prayer meetings in the gym every morning for those who wish to participate and I personnally went in there to see how it worked and there where several different groups from several different religious back grounds in there. I think that it is possilble to have religion in school but only if it is handled appropriately by the school's authorities. But if my kid wants to bow her head to pray before eating then it is not an envasion on anyone else's beliefs as long as it's a silent prayer.

.
[This message was edited Thu Jul 25 1:23:57 PDT 2002 by Abrazo]

Nep2nes said:

That's why there is a system of public and private schools. This way people can choose the school of their (religious) preference or likeness. If it is a religiously based school and they pray there every morning, then this should be a school for you, but not necessarily for the non-believer or the believer in another "God". He would be better off at a public school or at another private schoolof his/her religion.

If at the public school, religious students would demand prayer each morning in class this would basically infringe upon the rights and interests of the other students and the law of public schools to separate religious matters from the rules and instutions of the State, which public schools are a form of.

And technically, if you pray just outside the property of my house I can not claim your violating my personal tangible property right of my house or my land.

Look...go and read up on Locke and you will see that he also designed a way of thinking about every possible right as a "property right" he defines practically every right deriving from the right of property. philosophically this is all possible, how weird it may sound to some...

Rights of freedom of THOUGHT, freedom of RELIGION, freedom of SPEECH, are all rights that can be seen from the view of having a sort of a property right on your own mind and convictions which nobody can just mess with or claim rights to, and that includes religion.

If you come on my doorstep praying every day... you do not only likely infringe on my privacy (which can be derived from the property right someone has on his own body and private life) but you also likely infringe on my "property" right defined in the first amendment: freedom of religion. I have a right to not be constantly bothered by you with your personal/religious convictions.

So a JW is allowed to knock on your door, because everybody is allowed to knock on your door, asking for whatever. However when they are asked to leave they must leave, because else they will risk infringing on your "property rights", privacy and religion. They can come back a couple of times, but if they keep coming back every day bothering you and "your life"/"property" they are crossing the boundaries which their freedom of religion and speech gives them to excercise. You can then, only if necessary, force them to not bother you again. They are however smart and polite enough not to let it get out of hand like that, so they act within the boundaries of the Constitution.





Hey you, I never said I "hated" it...you are LYING again, as usual. and the Constitution does not mention 'God".



you still believe im from Brazil... thast shows enough of your ignorance.
You don't even know WHAT your Constitution says ... yet you CLAIM to know it and I am telling you it does NOT mention "God".



You don't... in fact Congress itself did just that in the 50's when they put the term "God" in the pledge, going straight aginst their Own Constitution... which was first drafted in 1787 and NOT in 1950.