How differently do you hear Prince music? Knowing the technical side of things, how does that affect your appreciation/criticality?

Does knowledge of the craft get in the way your enjoyment?

sometimes it does...like when you listen at one point in your development and you are amazed at things that over time you come to understand...like what the purpose behind having an accent (the big Clap sound on the 4th beat of bar two in so many of princes 80's tracks) does for the groove..or why anticipating a bass POP on the upbeat of the 3rd beat of a bar is funky..or why brass hits and a crash cymbal ..and a heavy one on the bass = a downbeat thats easy to follow and "catch" for dancers...ECT...it goes on and on...But I will say..when I hear him being less original..or following trends that lesser musicians use (the neptunes feel on black sweat...) (The james brown samples triggered from keyboards live in the early 90's along with the tired shitty raps...) It makes me respect him less as a musician with a unique voice.Thus making it hard for me to dig where he's at...even though i know in my heart he's THE MAN..(at times)

Back in the day, I would listen to Prince's 80's work And go back and rewind it and ask, "How did he do that?" Like in "Lady Cab Driver" before the guitar solo, there's a gurglimg sound. Or at the end of "Gotta Broken Heart", there a quick reverbed effect. Did he turn off the amp? Did he drop the guitar? And on "S.O.T.T." there's so many things..is that a real bass or synth? Is the cymbal backwards on "KISS"?

I kinda miss that in P's music today, but he's always taught me a lot about keeping a clean production. And what ever comes out is what you use. Do whatever.

SPYZFAN1 said:

Spyz and myself are a kindred spirit and were both brothers who play lead guitar and rock and were both from the same time period. The main reason I liked P from the get was because of his musicianship. He liked all of the people that I liked; Hendrix, Sly, Zeppelin, etc. So I understood what and why he was doing what he was doing, musically and image-wise. Now understand, this is the late 70's and early 80's Prince I'm refering to. P was definately someone that musically, I learned from. I wore out my albums learning how to play the solo's to "Bambi", "Why You Wanna Treat Me So Bad" and the solo to "Lady Cab Driver" and The Time's solo to "Get It Up" , "The Stick", "Cool" and of course "777-9311". (Yes, that's P playing the solo on that, not Jesse.) I had many other guitar heroes while I was coming up, but u better believe that P was one of them. Me being a musician with the ear that I have, I enjoy P's music better than I would if I wasn't a musician. No doubt about it. Especially P's music output from the 80's.

It's a wierd VERY weird thing. Because instead of enjoying the music from a consumer prespective, U tend to look into it from a creative perspective. Like for example: when I heard 3121 in it's entirety for the first time, i was able to pick out certain snare drums that sounded very familiar that either came from roland or yamaha. Like the snare on "love" sounded like I snare I used once before on a yamaha rm1x beat machine. Or, when I actually listened to black sweat with headphones, I may be wrong but the drums sounded like they came from the linn drum machine he made very popular in the 80's, and theres a slight "hiss" throuought the song. I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but that song by itself sounded like it was recorded on 2 and a half inch tape. Or, when you hear certain vocal traks with certain effects, you're wondering if it's a stand alone module or is a protools, steinberg or sonar based effect. you, are curious as to what type of different compressions are used. Did he record this on tape or computerbased? as a musician you tend you look a bit deeper in to things.

I've never tried to musically or technically know what he's doing because what he does is so off the cuff and instinktive that I don't think he himself knows.

To me, he just lets loose on whatever shit's around him at the time and that's it. He's a pure artist, in the sence that everything that comes flows from him without the need for producers or other musicians for that matter.

I know stuff about what other acts do, but not Prince, man I don't even know how to play Purple Rain, and I don't want to. But I think it's fine for people who do.

nowikno1 said:

See, this to me sounds like you're getting steeped in the technical aspect, taking apart the music while listening to it. Can you enjoy the music without studying it? Or are you always thinking about how it was put together?

padawan said:

If you were a dishwasher you would study a great dishwasher and check out what kinda soap he uses...or what teperature of water..If you were a golfer..you might check out what kinda clubs tiger woods uses...If you were a college basketball player..you might know all about lebron' average points in college games ..because he's out there...signed ...successful...and touching lots of people with his gift..Its only natural to check the competition..U think Prince didnt check out what michael and quincy were up to on the thriller and bad albums ?? Or Sly..Jimi..stevie wonder...Hey even d'angelo ,lenny and even tricky a few years ago ...How will he proudly be able to proclaim "i got the baddest band in show business" If he didnt check the competition out ??

prettymansson said:

Dude. That sounds like lyrics to a great song.

padawan said:

thanks

padawan said:

padawan said:

Actually, to make a long story Even shorter. Ill use this analogy: Being able to speak different languages doesnt necesarily make you smarter, it just increases you ability to communicate.

It's not about getting steeped into the technical aspect its called being inspired by the CREATIVE ASPECT.

One question, what instrument do U play?

prettymansson said:

I love your response. real COOL!

In a way, I feel I've come full circle - I've been playing guitar a number of years and like BG and Spyz, P was an inspiration to young brothas into funk/rock guitar. Before I got into Ernie Isley, Eddie Hazel, Hendrix, Eric Gales, et.al, there was P, and to a lesser degree, Jesse Johnson. I went through a period where I dissected every P solo, every overdub, every aspect of P's harmony vocals - I learned so much about music and arranging. "My Love is Forever" off of his first album is where I first learned how to harmonize guitar parts. In addition, his music/persona inspired me to learn how to play other instruments and arrange with them to do my own "one-man band" recordings. My thing is guitar and I stick with that nowadays, but I learned so much about music and instruments in general through P's music.

Now, I'm back to listening to P's music and enjoying it the way I did when I first got into him - no ultra-serious dissection - just enjoying the songs as a whole. I'm more partial to the older stuff, though, 'cause I have an emotional attachment as well to those early P/Time grooves.

There is one thing that I'm more aware of now, though - the various guitar sounds/equipment he's used throughout the years. I've been experimenting with a lot of different guitar/amp/pedal effects, so I guess that's my technical point of interest when I listen to any artist.

This is a cool topic

nowikno1 said:

I used to pay so much more attention to it when I was younger, but I've done it for so long I've lost my interest in it. Besides, to be honest, what comes to the technical side of producing things I have a pretty good grasp on how most everything on Prince records was achieved, by using what kind of technology and how.

i think some of you are showing off here.

it hasn't affected my appreciation at all.

prince is an amazing musician; better than most.

Brutha B, that was very well put. . Jesse I agree with you about the "one man" band thing. padawan you've started a great thread. One thing that P's always done is write great songs. So no matter what's going on in the song, you can still enjoy it. The same goes for artists like The Beatles, Lewis Taylor, and David Bowie. Cool effects here and there, but you still dig the songs.

It drives me nuts sometimes because I can never just LISTEN to a song. I tend to de-construct and re-construct each and every song to see what Prince was doing from a creative and production point of view. I would love to just listen and appreciate sometimes but my mind does NOT work that way. This happens to me with motion pictures, TV or almost any kind of creative endeavor.

I work as a sound designer, and music producer, and my knowledge only makes me appreciate Prince's twists and turns more and more. for instance, people complaining that the new album is mastered badly doesn't sit well with me, because I find the tone of the new album to be so refreshing compared to the usual.


Also, I just fall in love with with the little touches like in 3121 when he's talking at the end "this is where the party's at, this is where the party's at"... the vocal monster type sighs peak underneath in the mix. That kind of stuff is genius.

JPW said:

Only someone with a intimadated and perhaps jealous spirit would post some shit like that. No where on this thread has anyone posted anything anywhere close to showing off. A question was ask to musicians and we, as musicians, answered it.

JesseDezz said:

Very well put J.D. I too was greatly influenced by P to do the one man band thing, which I still do to this day. Like yourself, guitar is my main instrument, although a great majority of my songs are written from the bass. From P, I learned about freedom. From P, I was inspired to be as great of a musician and vocalist as I could be on not just guitar, but bass and keys. I already played drums. But through P, since I was so impressed by his overall prowess as a musician, songwriter, vocalist, performer, hell the whole 9, that inspired me to do so as well. And that's what it's all about. For me to know that I too can and will inspire and influence young kids to want to pick up a guitar and learn to play, that more than money and fame, will be the greatest gift I could recieve.

It's funny J.D., but through P, I got hip to other one man band cats such as Sir Paul, Rundgren, Sly and Shuggie. I was, of course, already into Stevie and as a band, and I adored The Beatles and Sly & The Family Stone. But no doubt it was P that inspired me to want to play and be able to shred on other instruments and learn about production, i.e, vocal harmonizing, mixing and just flat out performance in the studio with the "one take" magic and on stage.

blackguitaristz said:

THANK YOU !!

blackguitaristz said:

I can dig where u are comin from...P opened my mind to a world of artist that i never really checked out until i read as a 15 year old that P was influenced by them...I also recall being blown away with his BADASSNESS on so many different instruments...where i grew up..If you were in a band and couldnt rock like jesse and do the time steps at the same time while singing and be able grab somebody else' instrument at a rehearsal and play somethin funky..u were WEAK !!! and as we used to say "you couldnt tear shit up" that all came from MPLS and the whole vibe P put back into MANY young musicians comin up in the 80's !Purple rain was like college to me...It showed me a life/lifestyle/job that still pays my bills today ! this is a good topic !!
[Edited 5/5/06 11:21am]

Being a musician sometimes makes me not listen quite as objectively to the song. Sometimes I hear a pretty mediocre song like Push It Up or Freaks On This Side and I like it because it has a great arrangement.

But then I think non-musicians dismiss a lot of good music because they don't hear the arrangement the same as me. They simply say "I don't like it" within the first 10 seconds without hearing all that went into it.

I still enjoy listening to music a lot, but it's a little less magical than it used to be. Now the magic is in the creation & playing, and listening is more like peer appreciation (thought the "peers are often much greater!)

NDRU said:

Well, yeah. This is true. But a lot of people also dismiss good songs based on bad production, and they just can't hear what could have been an awesome track. When people say, for instance, that "I Like Funky Music" is a terrible track I just have to shake my head in disbelief, because that song had all the makings of being just as good or better as any of the classic funk pieces, like "Let's Work".

Novabreaker said:

Exactly. People don't like the production/style of Emancipation, NPS, or Rave, and they dismiss the albums in their entirity. Something I did with D&P. It was way too pop for me, but I learned to hear it differently by listening more. Also I trust that a great artist won't put out something worthless.

Prince schools me with most every album, because in his desperation to combine pop with eccentricity with a target audience.... he exhibits an unfamiliar and intriguing sort of discipline.

I'm not technically a musician (nearly everything I've ever learned to play has been by ear and I used to be able to read music to a point but have forgotten most of it; I do write lyrics and remember the music) but I would like to respond because I found this to be an interesting question.

If anything, being an aspiring musician makes me appreciate Prince's music more because he does so many unique things and ONE touch can make a song be completely and utterly amazing. Like the claps in the 80s, as someone else mentioned. If they weren't there the song might only be so-so, and I frequently listen to a song and eliminate all but one layer in my mind. That kind of thing makes me think about what a given song would be like without a specific element, or without an extra beat or some such thing.

I also occasionally think the music might sound better with a touch of something else I have in mind. Like with the few (Prince) songs I don't care for, sometimes I'll take a listen to think about what it is that makes me not like that song so much; for example, if a layer were changed, would I like it better?

It's a strange thing; I feel that I do listen to music a little differently than most people because of my intense interest in it and my desire to create it. But that's my take on it, even though I don't consider myself a full-fledged musician at all.