Nep2nes said:

It's actually a pretty well-known fact.

IrishEcho said:

That conclusion is not the only logical one. It's the only ignorant and racist one, but not the only logical one. Your comment only shows your complete lack of knowledge about African culture and world civilization in general.

IrishEcho

AnitaThrill said:

Why does Nat bother you so much?

sojourner said:

This is part of the explanation why Jesus has been depicted as being white for so long. In the period after the fall of the Roman Empire... "Christianity" managed to survive in different forms and even flourish in Europe... since Europeans didn't know about black people back then it would not have made sense to picture Jesus as someone who would look completely different than any average civilian of those days.

Later however, after the world was discovered by European sailers and colonised it became a way of saying that Jesus was and always has been "white". Who could picture Jesus being black, when black people were generally seen as inferior to white people and used as slaves?
That's all very understandable from the political point of view, pure lies.

Only now are we able to more or less freely speak and study and come to the conclusion that Jesus probably wasn't as white as many people picture him, without fear of being prosecuted by the State or the Church or religious zealots "defending" their faith... altho' I would bet some people still make a huge problem out of it if someone is offering a theory about it...

I didn't read the entire thread. Just bits and pieces. At any rate - Jesus was Middle Eastern looking.

You know..Osama bin Laden without the beard and long hair. One of the disciples in the Bible says that it's unnacceptable to have long hair. ...Don't ask me where it says that, but I heard on TLC, so I figure it's fairly credible.

Anyhow, it's highly doubtful that Jesus would have long hair and a beard when one of his disciples says it's unnacceptable to have long hair and grow a beard. Yes?

Anyways, so what if he was black. There still is no God in my opinion. So, he'd be just another man, as the real Jesus was.

Besides, the Jews are God's chosen people, and look how THEY'RE treated.

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

the jews say they are God's chosen people ... so do the JW's.
and you figure it is true that Jesus looked "Middle eastern" (whatever that is) because TLC, some modern day humans who were never there and never saw him, say?

lol... you may need to reconsider that.

Abrazo, look on a map where Israel is. Look at the people who come from Israel. Then you tell me.

They took a skull from a corpse dated to the time of Jesus, approximately as well. It was all pretty interesting.

You should try watching the show regardless. Whether you agree with the Middle Eastern theory or not. Whether you're an atheist or not, it was interesting if you have 3 hours. It takes you through the places the man walked - the stories, and does a reconstruction of what Jesus MAY have looked like.

The Bible should be the authority on the subject.
After all, that is the Book about Jesus.
Present any scriptures that support the Black
theory in reference to the Christ.

Someone said that there is a painting of the
Black Madonna in the Vatican.

That is a PAINTING, not a PHOTOGRAPH.

-

All I know is that Jesus drank so much beer and wine (he was a real lush) that his skin probably had a yellowish look to it from his liver giving out.

My conclusion, he was a yellow tinged brown man!

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

Like said on this thread we are talking about people who lived 2000 years ago... If you didn't know ... that's a long time...
Furthermore, people from North Africa, Ethiopia and Saudi Arabia for example are usually of pretty black skin. Tho' you could argue that now it owuld make sense that Jesus would probably look like a more mediterranean type, it is still nothing more than an assumption.

NatTurner said:

***

Sensual said:

I am not sure whether you were referring to me
or not, but if you were, is my avatar not Black enough?
Or are my remarks not Black enough?

No matter what race Jesus was, he would not
approve of either term; "niggas" or "cracka"
or don't you care what Jesus THINKS or what he TAUGHT ?..just as long as you know
he is Black.

Also, I believe that man was created and did not evolve.

You said "u must be another one of them niggas that
thank she a cracka".
Then, did you actually use the word "dumb" in reference
to someone?

-
[This message was edited Mon Jul 22 21:33:42 PDT 2002 by SensualMelody]

SensualMelody said:

I didn't say painting, I said "statue" and u should reference that along with the shrine of the black Madonna in Atlanta. The Bible does not nor will it ever have "all" the answers.

eos23 said:

So is it possible that ALL humans have the answers? nah but I think Jesus was of a darker complexion but not Black as Black persons of the darker persuasion actually look now a days. I believe his hair was dark but I cannot be certain of the texture. I believe since he lived in the mediteranian he was darker in complexion, perhaps that very nice olive complexion but still I will never know for sure what the man actually looked like, nor will any of us. I agree with what is said by some as the "message" being more important than what he actually looked like for sure.

This is a very interesting discussion.

DrNappyKitchens said:

***

Sensual said:

My bad, eos23...correction:
That was a STATUE.(also contrived by man)...not a PHOTOGRAPH. Atlanta's Madonna...A photograph?

Now if you're going to invalidate the bible as the
authority on Jesus Christ, then the debate is useless.
That's like arguing with my own parents about my
birthdate. The geneology of Christ is given in the
scriptures where his lineage is traced through many
generations. Check it out in Matthew and Luke.

Thank you DrNappyKitchen (what a name-smile) for your
observation. I totally agree with you.

-

The1AndOnlyAndTheOnly1 said:

Ok, Jesus was a jew and the jews have been persecuted for centuries, so obviosly his ethnicity didn't make much of a difference.
[This message was edited Mon Jul 22 21:22:08 PDT 2002 by SignOthetimes]

Why is color and race so important to some of you people?.
Prince has said "we all have God in common",God doesnot see color so why should we?

Jesus was Jewish, and we all know how they were treated during WW2.,If Jesus was black it would be the same.
Some would love and worship him and except him and some wouldn't.

Nep2nes said:

well... unless there was an atlantis with blond and blue-eyed people about 12 000 ys ago you may be right. fact is that the first known civilazations were black. look at benin (6000 B.C.). look at the egyptian empire. look at the city called "Ur" (now in the bagdad area), which goes back to 8000 B.C. I am talking about civilazations here, not a group of cavemen. that includes social scructures and infrastructure. so far there's no white/european civilization known to have existed at that time. china was already strong around 2000 B.C., but they were not white either. the native american cultures have built cities with 50 000 inhabitants around 1000 B.C.
I think its quite logical, if you think it over. blackness was there first, thats a genetic fact. with the migration of africans to the much colder and darker europe they adapted to that particular climate - the skin got lighter. I wanna add that it it quite difficult to start a civilization under the harsh conditions of the european winters.

SensualMelody said:

I will be very hard for anybody to fairly discuss any subject with you if what you just stated above is your true believe. dont get me wrong, I will always respect your belief. but how much proof do you need that mankind is a result of evolution? if you use the bible as the book of answers for everything, as the ultimate truth, then nobody can help you. then anything I say and believe will mean nothing to you. honestly, when I am at home I will present you some historical research which proves that jesus didnt even exist. I know it goes very far and it may insult your belief, but the evidence is out there. however; I (as someone who truly believes in god) might be willing to accept that there was a jesus, although he was much different then the one portrayed in the bible. the christian community created the "myth jesus", a person who had little in common with the real person. just think that none of the authors of the scriptures ever met him. imagine how much rumour is around prince, and little truth do we know since none of us is friends with him. we have all seen him perform, however nobody would feel secure enough to write a book on him revealing his deepest believes. imagine that 2000 ys ago, without the internet, without any true information. what was left of the original thoughts when the bible was written? do you really KNOW, not BELIEVE? even european theologists are saying today that it doesnt matter if jesus did exist or not. all what matters is the message, and that indeed is a positive one. somebody had to come up with it, no matter if it was jesus, richard nixon or whoever.
it gets complicated when you use the bible as a reference to historical facts. it has proven to have been wrong many times before, and as you have already said it doesnt really give any information on the "person" jesus, the actual human being.
I am a very sceptic person and I differ when I talk about BELIEF and KNOWLEDGE. I KNOW that mankind has evolved because somebody has presented me facts which I rationally consider credible. it is a FACT that the earth is a ball because somebody has been up there seeing it. and somebody has found human remains more than six million years old as just happened in angola (before it was thought that the first real humans lived around 3 million ys ago).
you are a smart person, sensual. so use common sense to judge. you said "just check how people in israel look like and you know about the color of jesus". thats to easy. you need to dig a little deeper. 2000 ys ago people in israel did NOT look like the people who walk there today. they were darker, because they havent mingled with the northern europeans. they were, as I said before, not black in terms of real africans. but they were black enough to get in trouble in a white american neighbourhood.

SensualMelody said:

Actually the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Book of The Essenes is a better read on the life and times of Jesus,and also the works of Edgar Cayce are pretty in depth. How is it that jesus goes from birth, to age 12, to age 30 in the bible, what of the 18 lost years? Was he drinking beer with bw during that time? No he was "studying".And why is it there were 12 apostles, but not all of them have books in the Bible??? And I suppose u don't believe that the Bible hasn't been altered in any way right??? Who exactly is this King James guy, and why does he get a version of the Bible? Why isn't there a Julius Cesar version?

The same people who made Jesus white also thought the world was flat. But at the same time, these people who think Jesus was a Harlem-Homey black are off the mark as well.Knowledge takes time.
[This message was edited Tue Jul 23 4:10:01 PDT 2002 by IrishEcho]

IrishEcho said:

nice to hear that from you, Irish
however, earlier you were referring to me as one of the people calling jesus "ghetto-balck" (whatever that strange term means to you). you misunderstood me there. I simply said that the people in israel 2000 ys ago were dark enough to be reffered to as a "nigger" in some areas of the US. that simply shows the ignorance of some people. its the same people who kill an israelian restaurant owner because they wanted to express their hate for osama bin laden (as happened in arizona). many people, that includes a lot of europeans as well, refer to darker than lightskinned as black.

soulpower said:

Did I say that? I lose track. The fact that Jesus was a dark-skinned male is obvious (or should be obvious) to anyone. Yet, it's also clear that wasn't black - not in the same sense the alleged coke dealer Al Sharpton is. Or the way you cited many Americans would consider a "n-word." He was likely the same color as any of the "brown-skinned" Jews or Arabs who are living in that region today. Olive. Not "tar." Just like many white people for centuries foolishly embraced the notion that Jesus was a brown hair, blue eyed savior, because of some paintings, or because Christianity & Western Civilization was centered in Europe, many black people today are wrongly seeing Jesus as I guess what I called "ghetto black." I remember KRS-One in one of his dopey ramblings rapping "Jesus Christ was black." Everytime I saw that video, I wanted to smack him for his limited understanding & preachiness. Did he think JC was going to kick back & smoke trees with him sometime during the Second Coming?

eos23 said:[quote]SensualMelody said:[quote]DrNappyKitchens said:[quote]

eos23 said:

***

SensualMelody said:

The Dead Sea Scrolls a better read?...in the Hebrew
language?.. Thank God for the uncovering of "The Dead Sea Scrolls".
They have been the main proof that the bible
has come down to us essentially unchanged.

Since I believe that the Bible is really God's
Word, it will always be the basis for truth for me.
Intellectualists sometimes make beautiful-sounding
script and commentary on spiritual subjects...but
either God left us a sound guide and protected its
contents for all generations or he did not. If I believe
that he is capable of being GOD, then certainly I
believe he is capable of preserving his word.

As far as missing info on the life of Christ...we are
given what is essential to our salvation. Once Jesus
was baptized and embarked on his preaching activities
as well as laying the foundation for Christianity,
his life is then very well documented. This is the part
of his life relates to the future of mankind.

Speaking only for me, I am convinced of the following:
"All scripture is inspired of God
and beneficial for teaching...for setting things
straight...that the man of God may be fully COMPETENT,
completely equipped for every good work." 2Tim3:16.17

eos23, your comments have been food for thought.
Thanks.

-

Let's just say for sake of argument that Jesus was black, does that now make you a black person feel proud to be of the same race? Even though you know that you personally never attempted to follow Jesus or obey his commands. Or as a white person, do you now disassociate yourself from all christian religions because Jesus the Lord that you pray to is "black"? Exactly what difference does it matter what race or skin color Jesus is? What, so we can be proud to say we are of like color or race? Really, who of us had a choice in the selection of our race or skin color? The truth of the matter is, none of us had any say in what race we were born into. We are simply the result of our parents, and that we can't change even if we wanted to. We just have to live as who we are.
I'm a proud Chevy truck owner. I drove many trucks, did a comparison and then decided to own and drive Chevy trucks. Who of us can say that we have lived as a person of many different races, did a first hand comparison, and then decided to choose the race that we are? So why are we proud to be black or white, as if one race is better than the other? You and I had no choice in the matter, none! I can honestly say that I am proud to have a accurate knowledge of Jesus, that I did have a choice in the matter. I chose to study the life and ministry of Jesus, I chose to dedicate my life to God and become a footstep follower of His son Jesus. And THAT my fellow orgers is what I'm proud of, not skin color or race. God's decision to select a people or nation for His name was not to show one race or nation superior to another. It was simply to demonstrate that a people or nation who chose to obey Him would benefit themselves and would be blessed in comparison to nations who chose not to obey the true God. TAKE PRIDE IN YOUR KNOWLEDGE OF GOD AND HIS SON JESUS. That my fellow orgers goes far deeper than any surface skin color.

Why is all about black or white? Why not just middle eastern? It makes more sense that he would be a bit tanned, but not necessarily black. Just throw him in the middle and quit all the stupid fucking fighting.

One more question. Would you feel better if Jesus did look like the man he was depicted as in Madonna's Like a Prayer Video? It was not the image of Christ depicted as a black man that bothered me in that video but the portrayal of his actions. A man's skin color means nothing when compared to his heart. The heart is the portrait we show to people everyday. We are the one's that choose the scene we paint.

lovebird said:

Thank you, Lovebird. Right on it!!!


Peace,

JD

I am presently examining a book entitled:
The Black Presence in the Bible by Rev. Walter Arthur McCray
Discovering the black and African identity of Biblical persons and nations.

I read somewhere before that Jesus should have been Jewish.
That's why learning history is not stupid.
Jesus was not a jew. Stupid if you thought so.

-without knowing the past you will not understand the future-

BattierBeMyDaddy said:

How could you comment on something that you have no knowledge of, you say you don't believe in God but then you say that The Jews are God's chosen people. And your reasoning is based on something that you say TLC said, not something that the Bible says, TLC. Thats funny, You also say that Jesus was Middle East looking, Do you know that parts of Africa is now called the Middle east. (Egypt and Lybia) Your comments are funny. The bible says that Moses Father in -law thought he was an Egytian, The bible also says that paul was mistaken for an Egytian, The bible tells us that Abraham had a child from Haggar the Egytian, Also that Moses married Zipora the Ethiopian. Also that Soloman Married The Queen of Sheba, Sheba of Ethiopia, you also say that Jesus didn't have Long Hair nor a beard. The bible also says that they pulled his beard to torture him. But then again, you don't read, the bible, or this post.