I had this conversation with some musicians the other day and I'm curious as to what you all think. In the old days, Artist were groomed and they sort of built an audience and skills as they went along. There was always growth with each new release. Examples include Stevie Wonder, Prince and others.

With today's cookie cutter acts, they don't stick around long enough to "grow". Clive Davis told me straight to my face, "If it's not a hit right out of the box, I won't touch it". With this mentality in mind, is Prince the last of the great groomed musicians? Will we be stuck in the cookie cutter mode from this point forward? I know things go in cycles but I just don't see any new talent that is being nurtured for LONG term success.

Any thoughts?

Graycap23 said:

Ani Difranco came after Prince.

In terms of mainstream artists, my answer is sadly...yes! However, as the internet continually grows and opens new avenues for independent artists. I believe that we will see the re-emergence of genuine talent that has some resemblance of the way it used to be.

ani's cool but hardly in the same leagu as stevie or prince

David Eye hipped me to Jamiroquai. I don't know if he plays instruments but there is definately actual "music" on the albums and it ain't that tired ass midtempo bullshit either....it's funk. I've been getting into him a lot lately.

As far as long term success is concerned, I don't know because radio refuses to play music anymore so it's hard for people who make music to become successful.

I think that the ENTIRE mainstream channels of music are about to go through a big shakeup. There are quality artists out there to be heard, however, one has to look. The internet and sattleite radio has changed the game and will continue to do so-especially for real musicians who are not all about selling perfume, soda, and clothes.

Mainstream radio sucks ass and is continuing to slip further the drain. Face it, when my favorite radio station is Jack FM (simply because they will play a slighlty unpredictable sequence of songs) you know something is wrong.

So, there will be talented musicians, just not as recognized by the Mass Media-which is unfortunate because it has less to do with talent and more to do with $. You could have he best of both worlds.
[Edited 4/19/06 11:23am]

As far as mainstream superstar artists are concerned, I think Prince is the last of his kind.

From Prince's heyday back through to the birth of Rock & Roll, it's easy to rattle off names without even thinking — Stevie Wonder, Sly Stone, Jimi Hendrix, James Brown, Chuck Berry, Little Richard. But since?

Is their really any current artist who belongs in this list? For me, the answer is a disappointed "No." (From a creative growth standpoint, I think a strong case can be made for Meshell Ndegeocello, but she's never had a whiff of commercial success on par with the others.)

The halcyon days of musical geniuses who sell records and get mainstream airplay seem to be gone for good. And before someone says it, yes, I know I sound like someone's father lamenting the state of music post-Beatles. But this is truly how I feel.

Borrowing a line from another pop genius (who most likely wouldn't be commercially successful today): "I guess I just wasn't made for these times."

Peace, David

livewire said:

I agree 100%. I hope we are both wrong but I don'tthink we are.

lovemachine said:

sshhh, don't say that too loud. in these parts, Prince is the only musician who has ever accomplished anything.

jonylawson said:

the question wasn't who was the bigger star, but about the process of building a star. but thanks for playing.

dumbass said:[quote]

lovemachine said:

I don't think your comments are legit. Most people don't even know who Ani is.

Graycap23 said:

She sells out EVERYWHERE she goes and moves a hell of a lot records.

lovemachine said:

I'm sure she has a fan base but I'd bet the avaerage music buyer has no idea who Ani is. I don't know so I'm asking you, how large of an audience do you think she has? I would not put her in the same company as Prince, Stevie etc.....but that's just me.

Graycap23 said:

You met/know Clive Davis? Do tell.

Graycap23 said:

But once again why do they have to be as big as Prince to be a musician who is allowed to build a fanbase?

lovemachine said:

I first heard of Ani DiFranco about a month ago when I saw a performance she did with Cyndi Lauper. I haven't heard her music so I can't comment, but as a performer she was completely out of her depth.

lovemachine said:

My original question pertains to really big acts like Prince. I know hundreds of small acts thay are doing quite well but they will NEVER be allowed to get big like a Prince once did. I don't know if we will ever see talent match the hype again.

vainandy said:

wise choice my man...return of the space cowboy is the GREATEST record I have heard from any artist since the glory days of prince !!! RIGHT ON ANDY !!!

prettymansson said:

I've tried to like this cat but.....it has not hit me yet.

R. Kelly. he was about as big with Public Annoucement as Prince was with For You and Prince, but hung around and blew up later.

dumbass said:

Hummmm that's true but in my book this guy's talent is marginal at best. But I do hear you though.

Graycap23 said:

but the question is about the process of building an artists, not whose more talented or who is a bigger artist.

you are seeing less musicians because the younger generation only hear and see rap music.think about when you were young, we had bands to listen to average white band, earth wind and fire, parliment, hall and oates,[etc].we were breed listening and being influence by music and musicians.like our little man says you only imatate your atmosphere.and the young kids today have been hijacked by rappers so they are not inspired to craft an instrument,but a microphone and give us more rhytmic speakng[rap] sad but true.

dumbass said:

I dig but I would really classify R kelly as having "grown" at all. He seems to to have regressed in a lot of ways.

Graycap23 said:

get this album and listen to MR MOON, STILLNESS IN TIME,LIGHT YEARS..and the title track...(really focus on the bass too) ..u will understand..

Graycap23 said:

he grew, possibly hit his peak and is declining. but the same can be said for Prince.

the growth process though is the same.

dumbass said:

I dig. Thanks for the input.

All I can say is, thank God for Sirius!

lovemachine said:

I think the major labels are less interested in "grooming" an artist through several relatively unsuccessful albums in order to build a fanbase and develop their sound, especially with pop-music.

The audience-building role seems to have been left for the indie labels to support. For certain genres that's not such a bad system. Plenty of Alt-rock bands work out their sound on indie-labels and build a following before moving to a major label.

Hmmm, Jamiroquai (who are a band BTW) are a bit past their best now IMO.

First 3 records were great, but they've treaded a lot of water since, although, the water is often quite nice, so can't complain too much.

Do you guys who like Jamiroquai know of other UK 'Jazz-Funk' bands like the Brand New Heavies (who have N'Dea Davenport back on board for a new record out soon), and Incognito? Similar 'real music' bands.



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I agree with a lot of what has been said - The industry has changed a LOT, I think right now it's in a lull because it's evolving from the old ways to the new ways.... It looks hopeless right now looking at the commercial music charts and what is promoted heavily to the mainstream, but there are still great artists and bands out there, it's just upto YOU the listener to go find them, they are not gonna be shoved under your nose as long as the industry can still turn a buck promoting retro-fuelled, repackaged and stylised attention-hungry wannabes through an increasingly staid cross-marketed, over-saturated and SANITISED mass media.

I tend to agree mostly with the originator of the post, but there is light and his name is Alex Turner - lead singer with the Arctic Monkeys , an artist who can write irony and humour and who makes a damn good pop tune ( I bet you look good on the dancefloor)- David Bowie likes them I hear