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PrintableByron said: PurpleKnight said: I didn't say he didn't write great lyrics in the 90's. I said that there were too many songs with blatantly bad lyrics.
Now he's written too many songs with merely average lyrics. Reflection is an exception, but there aren't many. Like I said, it's becoming a rarer and rarer occurence. Actually you oversimplified it by saying that Prince's lyrics have been "lazy" ever since 1987...that's a pretty arbitrary and slightly ridiculous cut-off point to make. I could fill this thread with around 100 songs with good-to-great lyrics that Prince has written in the last 19 years...I could also fill this thread with dozens upon dozens of "lazy" lyrics from songs prior to SOTT...I think your point would be FAR more valid if you had just concentrated on the last two CD he's released instead of going for the dramatic and claiming it's been all downhill lyrically since 1987. As a collective whole, yeah, that's how I feel. I said there were exceptions, and I still believe that, but as a whole body of work, I think his albums' lyrics have mostly gone downhill since SOTT. Byron said: I heard a rumor that your man he said he'd do U wrong
And Ur so vain U think that you're the one behind this song Sure U know he got plenty lyrics up his sleeve And after he got what he want he just go up and leave And sunday chocolate on the roof right after his game He like the Lakers but the Sixers on when he came If he's with another now U best believe the party's crackin Ur getting played girl, U better get your mack on And do onto others as they do onto U U call me on the day that U and him are just 2 through Was it U that I saw outside the liquor store Waiting on that fool 2 purchase what you'd been dying 4? And before I see U drop a spill I have 2 bring U down Now U got that triflin' barracuda hangin' round Hangin' round your neck like a cheap gold chain He don't deserve 2 say that he ever knew your name Much less he get 2 smell the perfume Eye gave U Please don't tell me that U all got down Better do onto others as they do onto U U call me on the day that U and him r just 2 through Great lyrics about seeing your ex with someone who you feel just doesn't deserve to experience them the way you did, to enjoy them the way you did..."he don't deserve to say that he ever knew your name", and ESPECIALLY the "Please don't tell me that you all got down" part...lol  Not particularly moved by the lyrics to that one. Kind of average imo, though not bad.
calldapplwondery83 said: You might be right, but that's a bad example. You know, when you want to make a clear, direct statement, you HAVE TO MAKE a clear, direct statement. You can't fault "Love is God. ..." for not being a great metaphor when it's not supposed to be. Personally, I think this line is just perfect.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was trying to link two songs about spirituality, but it's a little off. I just meant that Anna Stesia started out so brilliantly, and then he ended it with this corny as HELL climax that destroyed the mood of the song. The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
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Something else to keep in mind...the advancement of rap and its stronghold on music during the 90's had an effect on how lyrics were approached, and Prince was not immune to this effect. Most rap lyrics have 2 to 3 times the amount of wording that a regular pop song would...as Prince attempted to infuse his own work with the sensibilities of rap, his lyrics became longer and more wordy (which does not equate to better, and usually equates to worse), and they became more slang oriented... | |
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Byron said: Something else to keep in mind...the advancement of rap and its stronghold on music during the 90's had an effect on how lyrics were approached, and Prince was not immune to this effect. Most rap lyrics have 2 to 3 times the amount of wording that a regular pop song would...as Prince attempted to infuse his own work with the sensibilities of rap, his lyrics became longer and more wordy (which does not equate to better, and usually equates to worse), and they became more slang oriented...
That's a strong point. I feel like hip hop had a really negative effect on a lot of P's work in the 90's. The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
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The irony of P Control was that it was totally pc despite using most every vulgar phrase in the book. It's a ghetto superhero anthem a lá the Wonder Woman theme. Ever since that "Superhero" song he did before and that Batman nonsense (though I liked The Future, Electric Chair, Lemon Crush), I always hoped he'd do a real fun, superhero song. It's P speaking to one of the blights of the African American community: young women having babies and baby daddy's too soon (not that this is limited to Afrcan American's -- Mary wasn't married to Jesus' dad...), while keeping it fun. It's ghetto fabulous w/o being inane. | |
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mozfonky said: .... As far as 3121, I love the lyrics to FURY because he is so great at describing the bitterness of friendships/work relations turned sour, was this about Wendy and Lisa???
How can it be about Wendy when she was playing it on stage with him at the Brits. The song is much more likely to be about Madonna; that's why he played it in her new homeland first. | |
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I've never thought Prince's lyrics have gone downhill , in fact I remember the 1st few times I heard the Musicology album though musically I thought it was weak ,lyrically I found it to be excellent , Prince was still writing with great humour ( ICP & C) , he's always been able to write a great love song like Call My Name with a unique twist to it ( the reference to times of war )
and though his politics are often questionable he can still do fine social commentary like Cinnamon Girl and Dear Mr.Man . Maybe in the 1980s as others have said he was more poetic and flowery with his prose and more mysterious in his use of metaphors but in the 90s hes still turned out lots of stuff i've loved .Someone posted the lyrics to Tangerine , such a short song but lyrically ( and musically actually ) its wonderful , these lines : Even though I take your picture Everywhere I go I use it for a coaster and drink the overflow are just brilliant , theyre relating love and contempt and then love again in a few words , amazing stuff . I love the lyrics to Had U too , skeletal yet saying so much about relationships . As well as love , Prince's songs about sex can be just as amazing lyrically , people often rat on "It" cos its seemingly just him banging on about what sex machine he is , I've always seen it as a song about obsession with sex and what a curse it can be as much as it is an endorsement of his libido , nasty Prince's lyrics often seem to be overlooked in favour of spiritual Prince's , I prefer the sinner over the saint any day of the week , maybe cos when Prince is writing with his cock the results are often wickedly funny and telling , whereas his spiritual songs are pretty much humourless and dry at times . In conclusion , I dont think Prince has lost anything lyrically over the years , he can still pen a great song , sometimes the music doesnt quite match up , but he's still hitting my spot enough to be going on with . Check out Chocadelica , updated with Lotusflow3r and MPLSound album lyrics April 2nd 2009 :
http://homepage.ntlworld....home2.html | |
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GoZero said: mozfonky said: .... As far as 3121, I love the lyrics to FURY because he is so great at describing the bitterness of friendships/work relations turned sour, was this about Wendy and Lisa???
How can it be about Wendy when she was playing it on stage with him at the Brits. The song is much more likely to be about Madonna; that's why he played it in her new homeland first. How could it be about Madonna??They were never that involved with each other and even if they were, her star power matched his. Fury is about women scorned, this could be Wendy,Lisa, his ex-engineer, or any of his various female bandmates who've copped out and told on him at one time or another. I thought Wendy and Lisa were likely and that the song could be from that era, who knows other than Prince though. The lyrics are great and descriptive at describing relationships that leave two parties at odds and both claiming righteous indignation when there is "no judge or jury". Great lyrics, we've all been through failed relations that leave us bitter. Please explain your Madonna theory. | |
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skywalker said: Purpleknight-
"You just can't accept the possibility that maybe, just maybe Prince really has gone downhill artistically in some way? That it really isn't the fault of the fans, but merely a fair observation of reality?" It really is just a matter of taste right? I mean, you and I could argue the quality of Revenge of The Sith against the other 5 Star Wars films and whether or not Lucas is slipping artistically. Ultimately is just comes down to what you (the fan) wants. Just because Prince is not giving you EXACTLY what you want and how you want it, doesn't necessarily mean he is going downhill artistically. "His lyrics "back in the good ol' days" (I feel weird saying that considering I loved most of his lyrical work on Emancipation) weren't always great (Ronnie, Talk To Russia comes to mind), but it was a lot more imaginative and vivid overall. It was a lot more daring (not sexually, just thematically and overall) and multi-layered." Emancipation is 10 years old. It can be called the "good ol' days" I suppose. To me, someone else summed it up when they said his lyrics used to be more childlike. Even, though I don't think the quality Prince's lyrical output has dramatically changed, I will say this: Prince use to write a lot more 8th grade flower poetry type stuff. What I mean is that, he use to just toss in obscure colorful words to give things a sense of "depth" and "mystery". The writing on the back of the Purple Rain album is a perfect example of this. I like it, but it is sometimes high school girl type stuff. "Too many of his lyrics in the 90's were either painfully corny when they were meant to be serious (Graffiti Bridge and Animal Kingdom, anyone?), or distractingly desperate in their attempt to sound edgy or trendy (Days 'O' Wild, Hot Wit U),..." From day one, Prince has ALWAYS had his share of corny lyrics. "His lyrics in the 00's have mostly been far too straight forward and banal. Very lifeless and bland." Again, there have been many GEMS, lyrically, from Prince in the past 6 years. Listen, I am not trying to argue that Prince is BETTER lyrically than he used to be. All I am saying is that I don't see this giant shift in lyrical quality that you seem to be seeing. Prince's lyrical quality seems to be roughly the same as ever. A few rough spots, but mostly very apt at painting pictures with words. [Edited 4/16/06 8:47am] ^^ TRUTH ^^ | |
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pepper7 said: What about a song like "With You" then.
Lets analise it: Prince likes holding hands everybody !! Not particularly macho. I've held your hand so many times But I still get the feeling I felt the very first time I've kissed your lips and laid with you And I cherish every moment we spend in each other's arms I guess my eyes can only see as far as you I only want to be with you We've come so far in so little time Sometimes I wonder if this is meant to be Sometimes you are so very kind That the nights you're not with me I'm scared that you're gonna leave I guess you could say that I'm just being a fool But I only want to be with you I guess you could say that I'm just being a fool But I always, always want to be with you But hold on.... Next to it he puts the song Bambi. Well that is much edgier and with lyrics like "Baby you need to bleed". It's not very romantic. [Edited 4/16/06 16:01pm] WHAT exactly is it that you are trying to prove? | |
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wendyrachel said: Here we go again.....
Its another 'Prince aint like he used to be' topic If thats how you feel then just play what music era you liked him in Dont you think its good to have that choice???? Dont you think its good that hes sampled almost every type of music style you can think of??? Even back in the SOTT days he got criticised - I remember getting teased cos I liked him back then??? And now theres people STILL not satisfied with him... I give up.....  Love it! Love it! Wendyrachel i totally agree with u.  |
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pennylover said: wendyrachel said: Here we go again.....
Its another 'Prince aint like he used to be' topic If thats how you feel then just play what music era you liked him in Dont you think its good to have that choice???? Dont you think its good that hes sampled almost every type of music style you can think of??? Even back in the SOTT days he got criticised - I remember getting teased cos I liked him back then??? And now theres people STILL not satisfied with him... I give up..... Love it! Love it! Wendyrachel i totally agree with u.   
'Ive never been 1 2 hide my feelings, Baby, u blow my mind I painted your face upon my ceiling, I stare at it all the time...'
http://www.myspace.com/welshmess | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: pepper7 said: What about a song like "With You" then.
Lets analise it: Prince likes holding hands everybody !! Not particularly macho. I've held your hand so many times But I still get the feeling I felt the very first time I've kissed your lips and laid with you And I cherish every moment we spend in each other's arms I guess my eyes can only see as far as you I only want to be with you We've come so far in so little time Sometimes I wonder if this is meant to be Sometimes you are so very kind That the nights you're not with me I'm scared that you're gonna leave I guess you could say that I'm just being a fool But I only want to be with you I guess you could say that I'm just being a fool But I always, always want to be with you But hold on.... Next to it he puts the song Bambi. Well that is much edgier and with lyrics like "Baby you need to bleed". It's not very romantic. [Edited 4/16/06 16:01pm] WHAT exactly is it that you are trying to prove? Sorry WHAT exactly is YOUR point that YOU are trying to prove? Are you trying to intimidate me because I have an opinion? Because it feels like it. If you genuinely wanted to know what I thought you would ask me properly. Like "Hmm, that's interesting. Why do you think that?" Not "WHAT exactly is it that you are trying to prove?" I find your question very harsh and I don't think you genuinely want to know. Shut up already, damn. | |
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Well, I do. Didn't want come off as harsh. It just seems to me that you want to show that Prince is one walking contradiction and not very sane, when lyrics with different moods/directons are perfectly normal, I think. Holding back on something would be wrong.
And you know, he never had to try to seem like he's sex obsessed. He is/was. | |
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PurpleKnight said: calldapplwondery83 said: You might be right, but that's a bad example. You know, when you want to make a clear, direct statement, you HAVE TO MAKE a clear, direct statement. You can't fault "Love is God. ..." for not being a great metaphor when it's not supposed to be. Personally, I think this line is just perfect.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was trying to link two songs about spirituality, but it's a little off. I just meant that Anna Stesia started out so brilliantly, and then he ended it with this corny as HELL climax that destroyed the mood of the song. Another great thread of yours, Purple!
I don't know, everything about Anna Stesia is just dead on perfect to me (except the synth bass maybe). First, he's confused. Then he makes it through his confusion and at the end of it there's nothing but this one statement, plain-as-day. Anyhow, that's how I see it. | |
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PurpleKnight said:[quote] Byron said: Not particularly moved by the lyrics to that one. Kind of average imo, though not bad.
calldapplwondery83 said: You might be right, but that's a bad example. You know, when you want to make a clear, direct statement, you HAVE TO MAKE a clear, direct statement. You can't fault "Love is God. ..." for not being a great metaphor when it's not supposed to be. Personally, I think this line is just perfect.
Yeah, you're probably right. I was trying to link two songs about spirituality, but it's a little off. I just meant that Anna Stesia started out so brilliantly, and then he ended it with this corny as HELL climax that destroyed the mood of the song. The point why a comparison of "The Cross" and "Anna Stesia" just can't work is that the first one is a religious song on an album with mixed topics while the second one is one of the key songs on a religious concept album. In "Anna Stesia", Prince explains his way to his newfound happiness and out of the darkness of loneliness. The "God is Love" section is perfect because it absolutely clarifies what exactly saved him on his way. Any metaphor to cover that simple realization just would ruin the role of the song on the record. Complex or metaphoric lyrics are not necessarily better when it comes to pop music. It depends on the context.  | |
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Oh I fully "get" the point of Anna Stesia ending like that. It's a lost man who finds himself by getting closer to Christ.
I just wish that climax was written better, even with a straight forward style. The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
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PurpleKnight said: Oh I fully "get" the point of Anna Stesia ending like that. It's a lost man who finds himself by getting closer to Christ.
I just wish that climax was written better, even with a straight forward style. Make a suggestion!  | |
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Radiohead once wrote "Immerse your soul in love."
Something closer to that would've been more touching than...*shudders*..."Girls and boys love God above." The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
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Hmm, I really can't agree with that. Different strokes. | |
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PurpleKnight said: I was listening to SOTT last night, and it's amazing how far Prince's lyrical writing fell after this album.
SOTT had his most brilliant, introspective lyrics yet. Socially relevant insight, unbelievably creative gender roleplaying, and his best ever love ballad. Though there are some exceptions, it seems like Prince's lyrics got really trite and lazy since then. Lines like "Ghettos to the left of us, flowers to the right" became lines like "Love is God. God is love. Girls and boys love God above." Clever metaphors with mountains somehow became nonsense about dolphins. Thought provoking lines about purple rain and the apocalypse have turned into lousy metaphors about spiders. 
Emancipation, aside from the shitty filler tracks, seemed like a refreshing comeback, lyrically. The Love We Make is powerfully relevant, and Soul Sanctuary (and basically all of Disc II) is ridiculously poetic and romantic. Aside from that, it's been more of the same. Prince's lyrics have just gotten so simplistic and one-dimensional, and it's tainted his work as a whole for quite a while now (that includes 3121). I agree and quite FRANKLY this is what happens to humans when they dive too deeply into the pool of religion. Once Prince really started hanging out with Larry Shithead Gram.....his lyrics went totally to sh@t. I don't think that this is pure coincidence. Religion kills brain cells..... | |
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Graycap23 said: PurpleKnight said: I was listening to SOTT last night, and it's amazing how far Prince's lyrical writing fell after this album.
SOTT had his most brilliant, introspective lyrics yet. Socially relevant insight, unbelievably creative gender roleplaying, and his best ever love ballad. Though there are some exceptions, it seems like Prince's lyrics got really trite and lazy since then. Lines like "Ghettos to the left of us, flowers to the right" became lines like "Love is God. God is love. Girls and boys love God above." Clever metaphors with mountains somehow became nonsense about dolphins. Thought provoking lines about purple rain and the apocalypse have turned into lousy metaphors about spiders.
Emancipation, aside from the shitty filler tracks, seemed like a refreshing comeback, lyrically. The Love We Make is powerfully relevant, and Soul Sanctuary (and basically all of Disc II) is ridiculously poetic and romantic. Aside from that, it's been more of the same. Prince's lyrics have just gotten so simplistic and one-dimensional, and it's tainted his work as a whole for quite a while now (that includes 3121). I agree and quite FRANKLY this is what happens to humans when they dive too deeply into the pool of religion. Once Prince really started hanging out with Larry Shithead Gram.....his lyrics went totally to sh@t. I don't think that this is pure coincidence. Religion kills brain cells..... 1. The tolerance you show towards other people's ideals of life is amazing. 2. I hope you realize that Prince already was very religious when he made records like "Purple Rain" or SOTT. 3. PurpleKnight made the point that Prince's lyrics got worse after SOTT, meaning after 1987. Prince didn't start studiying with Larry until 1997 or 1998. 4. If you think religious people can't produce something great, I'd like to recommend the works of J.S. Bach to you... | |
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All the classic composers were incredibly religious.
Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, etc. They made some of the most beautiful music that'll ever be heard. [Edited 4/17/06 10:07am] The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
"You still wanna take me to prison...just because I won't trade humanity for patriotism." | |
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PurpleKnight said: All the classic composes were incredibly religious.
Bach, Mozart, Chopin, Liszt, etc. They made some of the most beautiful music that'll ever be heard. Exactly! I'd also like to mention Mahler. His 2nd Symphony, for example, is an outstanding piece of heartfelt religious beliefs. I'm fine with people who think that Prince's music has got worse, though I don't agree. But I don't understand why some folks need some simple one-reason explanation for their findings like JWs, Larry G., becoming too religious or whatever... | |
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its not the lyrics as much as i dont dig him the way i used to..anymore | |
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EmancipationLover said:[quote]
1. The tolerance you show towards other people's ideals of life is amazing. quote] I will NOT get into a heated debate about this. People can do what ever they like. This is just my opinion for ME: Religion and 99% of all of it's forms are for the uneducated. GOD is NOT RELIGION. | |
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Graycap23 said:[quote] EmancipationLover said: 1. The tolerance you show towards other people's ideals of life is amazing. quote] I will NOT get into a heated debate about this. People can do what ever they like. This is just my opinion for ME: Religion and 99% of all of it's forms are for the uneducated. GOD is NOT RELIGION. See replies nos. 80, 81 and 82 on this thread. | |
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EmancipationLover said:[quote] Graycap23 said: EmancipationLover said: 1. The tolerance you show towards other people's ideals of life is amazing. quote] I will NOT get into a heated debate about this. People can do what ever they like. This is just my opinion for ME: Religion and 99% of all of it's forms are for the uneducated. GOD is NOT RELIGION. See replies nos. 80, 81 and 82 on this thread. ZZZZZzzzzz | |
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most of your threads lately have been negative |
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kpowers said: most of your threads lately have been negative
This is the first thread I've made in a while. You lose. The world is a comedy for those who think and a tragedy for those who feel.
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PurpleKnight said: kpowers said: most of your threads lately have been negative
This is the first thread I've made in a while. You lose. no, you put down sign of the times b4 and in other threads too, so you lose!!!1 |
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