jtfolden said:

You seem to attempt to speak for a lot of "R&B fans" that aren't here to speak for themselves

and the more you say, the more obvious it is that you are letting your own likes/dislikes color what you have to say (much like your very next post) about the period.

Despite all your claims that R&B fans were abandoning Prince in droves, the fact of the matter is that Parade is Prince's 3rd highest charting R&B album.

Out of his 80's releases only Purple Rain had a better showing.

Single wise, they spent more weeks and had an over all better showing than those from ATWIAD and were comparable to the performance of those from 1999 and SOTT.

Well of course. If they dropped him they wouldn't be here.



Of course, it was a huge pop success.



Of course, all three of those albums were after he expanded his audience and a lot of Europeans seem to worship "Sign O The Times". The concert movie in my local theater had about 30, 40, maybe 50 at the most while the tour had these huge audiences overseas. When the movie "Purple Rain" opened, you could barely get in the theater to see it for at least a week.

Also, any Prince fan knows to buy those singles even if you have the album for the B Sides. Even though "Around The World In A Day" was totally different, the B Sides "She's Always In My Hair" and "Hello" were very "old Prince" sounding. I'm sure people remembered this when "Parade" came out.

dewalliz said:

Online radio is such a fragmented beast that you can find a DJ with any taste you like. In general I hear the same things I've always heard... the hits. A lot of Let's Go Crazy, Little Red Corvette, and Kiss. I don't hear Delirious any more than I hear Mountains these days... and I rarely hear deep album cuts unless it's a station that's in the habit of playing such.

However, the main thrust seems to be the reaction back in the day and even though the charts aren't the end-all-be-all barometer they are decent enough to gauge how something was performing compared to other items in the market during a given period.

.


Somebody was obviously feeling them because they peaked fairly high on the R&B singles charts, as you admit. The singles from 1999 peaked at 4, 15, 18 & 55 and all of them were off the charts in 8-19 weeks. The 3 singles from Parade peaked at 1, 15 & 18 and lasted 12-17 weeks. SOTT had singles peaking at 1, 12, 11 & 15 and lasted 12-16 weeks each. Not a big difference here at all. They each had at least 3 top 20 hits and each album initially sold 1+ million copies. That's pretty consistent performance on the R&B charts.

Also, Parade fell off quickly in part due to a high profile marketing plan that ended abruptly as soon as it was clear the movie was tanking (and Prince was winding down the Revolution as a group). Kiss debuted in march of 86 and the final single debuted in July. It had an active marketing window of less than 6 months when it sold it's 1+ million.

Compare this to 1999 where you have 1999 debuting in October 1982 with the final single charting in January of 84!!! So here we have well over a years worth of marketing and yet 1999 didn't sell measurable better. It didn't get certified double platinum until Purple Rain's new rock/pop audience started picking up older albums in October of 84.

SOTT is a similar story. First single in March 87, last single in December 87. So, roughly 9 months plus the SOTT movie and the album still didn't go double platinum in the US.



Is Parade a 'typical R&B album'? No, of course not... I never said it was. Does it contain more R&B than ATWIAD or Purple Rain? Most certainly. If Parade wasn't another sharp turn away from the pop/rock audience of PR then I don't know what was.

Like I said just because people bought the album and singles that doesn't mean they like it. Sales can do fairly good for the record company and the artists but they can't replaced people's final thoughts after they buy the album/single.

You keep saying that we are speaking for the entire R&b fanbase yet you have no problem concluding that all R&B fans who bought Parade must have like it.

From my experience and through the talks of Prince's R&B fans (and no they arent old buddies who are so anti-Parade) both online and offline, they thought Prince lost his mind when he didn't do the entire album like Kiss.

dewalliz said:

So Parade is a singular, magical case where people were compelled against their will to go out and buy music they didn't like? It's funny because nothing made them go out and buy singles like "Let's Pretend We're Married", "Take Me With U" or "America" which performed badly on the R&B charts in comparison. I'm sorry but it's just not logical. If these tracks did not have the support, they would not have been hits. Prince was well past the point where PR made everything turn to gold.




Again you put words in my mouth. I have only stated that your experience is NOT universal and that the charts and sales data do not measurably support what you claim.



Which, again, was not my experience and I was there first hand in my area, as well. It wasn't until LoveSexy that I saw any real backlash. LoveSexy is a perfect example of where an album has soft support, with no real consumer enthusiasm in the R&B market (or any US markets to be honest).

skywalker said:

Sure, one's first Prince record has a special place in their heart.

A lot of our tastes and preferences are shaped by the charm of first time encounters. I still order the exact same food from the exact same chicken 'n' waffle place, a place that reminds me of good times. And I wonder: Is the tastiness of the chicken an empirical fact? Or do I just like it for the memories it evokes? Who can say? All I know is that I enjoy eating that chicken.

However. I can make an objective study of the tastiness of said chicken. It is more expensive than KFC or Pioneer or Church's or Popeyes. And I still choose to dine there. Plenty of other restaurants reminds me of good times, but I don't make a habit of going to those establishments. So there must be something intrinsic in their chicken that is somehow more appealing to me, apart from my emotional associations.

So what I'm saying is, early 80s Prince was that chicken. Later 80s Prince is Kenny Rogers Chicken. 90s Prince was El Polo Loco chicken. 2000s Prince is shaping up to be Boston Marketish, McNuggets type chicken.

This is serious scholarship, folks. Take notes.

You are twisting my words around a bit.

I am talking about from my experience that many people who were hardcore r&b lovers at the time bought the album because they thought the album was going to be like Kiss but were extremely disappointed when the album was the opposite from Prince's leading single. I am talking about sometimes when you hear a good song on radio you would go out and buy the album but once you hear the album it isn't like what you were hoping for.

That is what I am talking about that high album sales doesn't mean that people like the album since there isn't an existing data about people's opinion once they purchase the album.

Like I said if Parade was so well-liked by R&B fans then how come that many R&B radio stations refused to play majority of the songs from that album? Usually radio stations wouldn't play songs unless it was well-received?

reneGade20 said:

The thing that is really hilarious about this whole discussion is for me to remember my reaction when I bought ATWIAD. Never once did I question that it was so much different and coincidentally the friends I made a few years later accepted the album in the same way. It wasn't until I was exposed to the larger Prince community on the internet that I even knew that many fans jumped ship at this time. It never occured to me, not even one time, to do anything other than just accept the experience.

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said: