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PrintableIt's not a amatter of numbers. Or, Do you think that because 75 million is a higher number than 6, then their suffering is worse? I don't think so. Everybody's pain should be respected. Because then you could say "they killed somebody, but it doesn't matter cause that's nothing compared to 75 million people". As long as someone's suffering, we should show rispect for him. Each horror must be remembered on its own. And I think that, while Prince surely didn't want to offend somebody, one should always try to be cautious about sensitive subjects. | |
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MorehouseMan said: anon said: Just read Muse lyrics. There is nothing anti-semitic in them. I don't think a Jewish person would find them offensive. It quotes scriptures that the Jews are familiar with and it seems to speak of Esther who wins the Pharoahs favor and saves her people from death. Esther was a Jew.
This I know from "Veggie Tales, Esther...the girl who became Queen" . I buy them for my niece and nephew. [sorry about the veggie reference but it's as deep as my bible knowledge goes] RE: That Holocaust statement: He says "Holocaust aside". Which reads that it's better to be dead than a slave...except the Holocaust (he's well aware of the manner in which many were murdered there). The lyrics are somewhat odd and unclear but not at all anti-Semitic. Not this song. Good post. This is exactly how I interpreted the lyrics as well. Perhaps because the other song was a bit careless in delivery...some are looking for more than what's there. Why do you like playing around with my narrow scope of reality? - Stupify | |
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solraccat said: It's not a amatter of numbers. Or, Do you think that because 75 million is a higher number than 6, then their suffering is worse? I don't think so. Everybody's pain should be respected. Because then you could say "they killed somebody, but it doesn't matter cause that's nothing compared to 75 million people". As long as someone's suffering, we should show rispect for him. Each horror must be remembered on its own. And I think that, while Prince surely didn't want to offend somebody, one should always try to be cautious about sensitive subjects.
Of course I'm not saying or thinking that. Look at it this way. Would u rather lose $6 million in Vegas or $75 million? | |
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[WARNING: Keep the topic on the intent of the lyrics and off any deep religious debate - or it may end up in the Politics and Religion Forum folks] 
Ohh purple joy oh purple bliss oh purple rapture! REAL MUSIC by REAL MUSICIANS - Prince "I kind of wish there was a reason for Prince to make the site crash more" ~~ Ben |
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moderatorIf p is anti semetic so what? Doesn't mean he is in real life does it?
Is Prince a pimp in real life, as i coulda sworn he was one on "bob george"? | |
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muleFunk said: DaveDare79 said: Public Enemy (the rap group) also seem to hold similar views (see below) although their record "Swindler's Lust" was more blatant than Prince. It actually put me off them for good.
I wonder if it is a coincidence that Prince and Chuck D (from Public Enemy) have collaborated - on Prince's Rave LP. "Also, Professor Griff, a member of the group, made what many perceived to be anti-Semitic remarks, though he claimed that he did not condemn all Jews, just Zionists. He was ejected from the band as a result of these remarks, and the group was listed in an FBI report to Congress entitled "Rap Music and Its Effects on National Security". For this and for their single "Swindler's Lust" the group was condemned by the Anti-Defamation League, though the band and many of their fans defended themselves, saying that they were not trying to diminish the events of the Holocaust, rather draw a comparison between the events of the Holocaust and slavery." - Wikipedia The FBI also led an operation called COINTELPRO which targeted Black leaders like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King,and the Black Panther Party. It is no mistake that the rise of Gangsta rap occured after the imfamous FBI report to congress. Since that time the numbers of Black males who have gone to prison has risen significantly. I would not be surprised if Prince has a FBI file and would not be surprised if he was targeted by the FBI. What does the COINTELPRO program have to do with the rise of gangsta rap ? I don't see the connection . The number of Black men going to prison has to do with the rise of the Crack trade, and the fact that open drug dealing makes an easy police target #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
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DaveDare79 said: The thing about TRC that bothers me with every listen, was Prince really expressing anti-semitic sentiments on "Muse 2 The Pharoah" and "Family Name", or is he just misunderstood? I really hope it is the latter, but unfortunately I still makes me feel unsettled hearing his lyrics on these songs.
Read the below. What do the rest of you think? I imagine this has all be analysed in depth in the past, right? "Some of the lyrics were interpreted as being anti-Semite. In “Muse 2 The Pharoah,” Prince says that “Holocaust aside, many lived and died,” as if it is questionable whether the Holocaust should be considered. He asks the rhetorical question whether it is better to be dead or sold into slavery. “Family Name” also contains what seems like an anti-Jewish sentiment. Three times Prince has a person ask an African-American, “What you mad about?” In response, the lyrics note that the person asking the question still has his family name, unlike the African slaves forcibly renamed. The family names of each of the people in question are “Rosenbloom,” “Pearlman” and “Goldstruck.” The first two are common Jewish names. The third is essentially a corruption of such Jewish names as Goldstein or Goldberg, but all the more regrettably, the name Prince uses plays off the repugnant stereotype of the wealthy, avaricious Jew" [WARNING: Keep the topic on the intent of the lyrics and off any deep religious debate - or it may end up in the Politics and Religion Forum folks - luv4u] Who really cares though. You can't say anything negative about jewish people and they immediately pull that "anti semitic" crap. Jewish people already control most of Hollywood, tv shows have been written by Jewish people for years. I can really care less if a person likes jewish people or not. "You don't exist again. It's all taken away from you. Even for the richest, happiest and most beautiful people, they move into later life and get old where things start to break apart. They don't exist anymore and they will never exist again." Woody Allen | |
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Bleh. The anti-semitism lobby recalls the way republicans are always on the attack. Claim offence first then with that victimhood and indignation preserve your cosy power structure long into the future.
It's a nonsense that they have a monopoly on the term "holocaust" anyway, Rwanda counted the same number of fatalities and that's much more recently. The word, Holocaust, derives from Greek words, meaning complete destruction, usually by fire. By the end of the 17th century, the word came to mean a great slaughter or massacre. It's ridiculous to quibble over 75m slaves in the USA also, when did Prince say he was only talking American slavery? His whole African diaspora was affected. Many more Africans were enslaved and taken to Haiti, Jamaica, Trinidad, Barbados, Brazil, Venezuela, Guyana... Glug, glug like a mug | |
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Lets not forget that during the holocaust jews were also used as slaves. Someone earlier attempted to belittle the holocuast in comparison due to the numbers and the fact that it was just a short time. Silly , very silly. I could retorte that 1 in every 3 jews were salaughterd, far more than the fraction of the worlds Africans that were enslaved. I could also say that the Holocaust happened within living memory, and not over 2 centuries ago. I wont though because that would be equally as stupid an argument.  If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it! |
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On Muse 2 The Pharoah "white jailbait with misplaced bloodline" whats view on that lyric cowboys? | |
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Most blacks don't like Jews becasue they played a large role in slavery, from what I have heard in conversations.
What comes around goes around, I guess. 1 in 3 Jews were not affected by the Holocaust. That's absorbed, and silly. The only reason people get they rocks off on Jewish Holocaust is becasue of video, and the ones showed have fair skin. If video was around during slavery, based on written accounts. You would really see the devil at work. Michael Jackson don't like Jews either. Big deal. I really don't recall people getting that upset about Jews going to college. I really don't recall Jews get shot 50+ times, I really just don't recall Jews being dragged beind a truck in the last 20 years in America. I agree with the theory that is presented on TRC. Prince is anti-slavery if anything. [Edited 4/8/06 8:57am] [Edited 4/8/06 8:58am] | |
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workingupahiyellasweat said: Most blacks don't like Jews becasue they played a large role in slavery, from what I have heard in conversations.
What comes around goes around, I guess. 1 in 3 Jews were not affected by the Holocaust. That's absorbed, and silly. The only reason people get they rocks off on Jewish Holocaust is becasue of video, and the ones showed have fair skin. If video was around during slavery, based on written accounts. You would really see the devil at work. Michael Jackson don't like Jews either. Big deal. I really don't recall people getting that upset about Jews going to college. I really don't recall Jews get shot 50+ times, I really just don't recall Jews being dragged beind a truck in the last 20 years in America. I agree with the theory that is presented on TRC. Prince is anti-slavery if anything. [Edited 4/8/06 8:57am] [Edited 4/8/06 8:58am] This is satire, right ? Because if it isn't, it may be among the Top Ten Stupidest things I've ever read #SOCIETYDEFINESU | |
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DaveDare79 said: The thing about TRC that bothers me with every listen, was Prince really expressing anti-semitic sentiments on "Muse 2 The Pharoah" and "Family Name", or is he just misunderstood? I really hope it is the latter, but unfortunately I still makes me feel unsettled hearing his lyrics on these songs.
Read the below. What do the rest of you think? I imagine this has all be analysed in depth in the past, right? "Some of the lyrics were interpreted as being anti-Semite. In “Muse 2 The Pharoah,” Prince says that “Holocaust aside, many lived and died,” as if it is questionable whether the Holocaust should be considered. He asks the rhetorical question whether it is better to be dead or sold into slavery. “Family Name” also contains what seems like an anti-Jewish sentiment. Three times Prince has a person ask an African-American, “What you mad about?” In response, the lyrics note that the person asking the question still has his family name, unlike the African slaves forcibly renamed. The family names of each of the people in question are “Rosenbloom,” “Pearlman” and “Goldstruck.” The first two are common Jewish names. The third is essentially a corruption of such Jewish names as Goldstein or Goldberg, but all the more regrettably, the name Prince uses plays off the repugnant stereotype of the wealthy, avaricious Jew" [WARNING: Keep the topic on the intent of the lyrics and off any deep religious debate - or it may end up in the Politics and Religion Forum folks - luv4u] No Prince was addressing slavery and in the one sense comparing the holocaust to slavery and asking a very valid question. Which is worse being dead or being sold? The entertainment circles that Prince came up in were Jewish owned. So he is asking the gatekeepers questions about fairness. I got in this very argument over in the P&R circles about Jewish control of Hollywood. I personally believe that since jews created hollywood they still have a vested intrest in Hollywood. Obviously not all Jews just the desendants of those that did which is still pretty substantial. To me that is no more racist than saying "Gee alot of black men really dominate most of Americas major sports!" But truth be told somebody will try and call you a racist for saying that. I am black and that statement doesn't offend me in the least. I think its okay to ask questions of Jews or any other race or group of people and not be considered anti-them. I don't think its an unfair question for a white person to ask why so many blacks use the "N-word". I see that as being at its worst ignorant to that culture. Right now America is in such a silly place with these things. A few years ago Dusty Baker, a black man and then manager of the San Francisco Giants, said that "Africans were brought over to America to work the fields because they could withstand the heat and back breaking work!!" Well you would have swore he said "Enslave the blacks again please!!" He explained to the press that his mother was an African studies teacher and that this was all just history. Well the press eventually backed off. This past year the coach of the Air Force's football team said. "Hey we are too slow we need to get some black players" Once again the press treated him like David Duke. Meanwhile every black sports writer I heard from on the issue and my friends alike were wondering what in the hell the big deal was with that statement. Look at the NFL there aren't many white cornerbacks for a reason. Sorry to take the long route to answering this question but I think this is the logic you should apply to TRC as oppossed to the faulty logic the press engages in from time to time which is. If you mention a race or history outside of a certain context you are essentially dissing that history and its people. THE CARDINAL HAS SPOKEN!!! | |
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Cue Rodney King.  | |
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Remember this was billed as the 'controversial new album'. The man is fully aware of the ?'s the album asks, but being who he is, he lets you chew on what it means!!!!! | |
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DaveDare79 said: The thing about TRC that bothers me with every listen, was Prince really expressing anti-semitic sentiments on "Muse 2 The Pharoah" and "Family Name", or is he just misunderstood? I really hope it is the latter, but unfortunately I still makes me feel unsettled hearing his lyrics on these songs.
Read the below. What do the rest of you think? I imagine this has all be analysed in depth in the past, right? "Some of the lyrics were interpreted as being anti-Semite. In “Muse 2 The Pharoah,” Prince says that “Holocaust aside, many lived and died,” as if it is questionable whether the Holocaust should be considered. He asks the rhetorical question whether it is better to be dead or sold into slavery. “Family Name” also contains what seems like an anti-Jewish sentiment. Three times Prince has a person ask an African-American, “What you mad about?” In response, the lyrics note that the person asking the question still has his family name, unlike the African slaves forcibly renamed. The family names of each of the people in question are “Rosenbloom,” “Pearlman” and “Goldstruck.” The first two are common Jewish names. The third is essentially a corruption of such Jewish names as Goldstein or Goldberg, but all the more regrettably, the name Prince uses plays off the repugnant stereotype of the wealthy, avaricious Jew" [WARNING: Keep the topic on the intent of the lyrics and off any deep religious debate - or it may end up in the Politics and Religion Forum folks - luv4u] what? are you serious?> i haven't read the other replies... but that just doesn't seem like Prince. Why take the lyrics that way? i think he's actually showing sentiment for jews. He saying many people lived and died....the hallocaust was mass-murder, how blantly did you want him to put it. anti-semite or not, he's never had that kind of religious or political leanage. He just wants attention. just like with the act of SEX... prince's lyrics get misunderstood. It's the total effect not what he says that matters. i chose family name in my signature because i'm the black-sheep in my family, so it has nothing to do with society. It's about the family and your father or your origins. LIKE WHAT'S YOUR WORTH>>> FOR heavens SAKE>>> YOU'RE A HUMAN BEING!!! ---that's the message. he's against de-humanisation. and whats wrong with rosenbloom? pearls and gold... he's totally sympathetic and not anti-semite. don't be silly. [Edited 4/9/06 2:18am] | |
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I always took the "holocaust aside" line to as "apart from the holocaust" - I didn't take it to diminish the holocaust - but I can see, in reading the full lyric, how it can be taken several ways:
"Holocaust aside, many lived and died But when all truth is told Would u rather b dead or b sold? Sold 2 the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait." The only line of contention here that one could take issue with here is the first line 'Holocaust aside, many lived and died' - As I said, 'Holocaust aside' I would take as 'apart from the holocaust', the 'many lived and many died' part is true, lots of people died and lots of people survived the holocaust, although I see how that can be seen as a little insensitive or dismissive of the survivors of such an event. Prince asks the question 'Would you rather be dead or be sold?' -- He doesn't answer the question, but as an African American, and the context within which the question is asked, one can safely assume that Prince's answer to the question is that it is worse to be sold. But that's only the authors (assumed) opinion, the question is still left hanging in the air for the listener to answer for themselves. The next part: "Sold 2 the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait" - Now that's a much more interesting lyric IMO, one it would be interesting to hear people's opinion on... rather than arguing in circles about who's atrocity in history was worse…. What happens when one side wins this argument, and is pronounced the 'victor' as having the worse injustice? Are we to congratulate them? And will they wear it like a souvenir?)..... It's a fruitless argument as I can see. The enemy and true oppressor in the lyrics of TRC aren’t the white Europeans, or the Jews, it’s “the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait”….. Who is 'the one' who, (presumably) the Blacks, were sold to? Who are the white jailbait? What is the displaced bloodline? Who's bloodline, and why is so significant? Why does 'the one' select only the white jailbait with which to mate this displaced bloodline with? That’s what I find an interesting topic for dissection. 
// [Edited 4/9/06 2:50am] | |
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NouveauDance said: I always took the "holocaust aside" line to as "apart from the holocaust" - I didn't take it to diminish the holocaust - but I can see, in reading the full lyric, how it can be taken several ways:
"Holocaust aside, many lived and died But when all truth is told Would u rather b dead or b sold? Sold 2 the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait." The only line of contention here that one could take issue with here is the first line 'Holocaust aside, many lived and died' - As I said, 'Holocaust aside' I would take as 'apart from the holocaust', the 'many lived and many died' part is true, lots of people died and lots of people survived the holocaust, although I see how that can be seen as a little insensitive or dismissive of the survivors of such an event. Prince asks the question 'Would you rather be dead or be sold?' -- He doesn't answer the question, but as an African American, and the context within which the question is asked, one can safely assume that Prince's answer to the question is that it is worse to be sold. But that's only the authors (assumed) opinion, the question is still left hanging in the air for the listener to answer for themselves. The next part: "Sold 2 the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait" - Now that's a much more interesting lyric IMO, one it would be interesting to hear people's opinion on... rather than arguing in circles about who's atrocity in history was worse…. What happens when one side wins this argument, and is pronounced the 'victor' as having the worse injustice? Are we to congratulate them? And will they wear it like a souvenir?)..... It's a fruitless argument as I can see. The enemy and true oppressor in the lyrics of TRC aren’t the white Europeans, or the Jews, it’s “the one who can now mate the displaced bloodline with the white jailbait”….. Who is 'the one' who, (presumably) the Blacks, were sold to? Who are the white jailbait? What is the displaced bloodline? Who's bloodline, and why is so significant? Why does 'the one' select only the white jailbait with which to mate this displaced bloodline with? That’s what I find an interesting topic for dissection.
// [Edited 4/9/06 2:50am] :applause: well, that's what i meant | |
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workingupahiyellasweat said: 1 in 3 Jews were not affected by the Holocaust. That's absorbed, and silly. Where do your figures come from? I agree the number is too horrific to belive, however. There is a world population of Jews of just 12 million. 6 million died. So do the maths and thats 18 million before the holocaust 1 in 3 my friend. Now there is a sobering thought for you. 90 percent of Polands 3 million Jews were exterminated purposefully and systematically. The aim was to ultimately exterminate all 18 million of us. So if you are sick of hearing about the holocaust, imagine how repugnant I find the constant desire for people to belittle and play down its impact. I think it is important to find compassion for the suffering that others have endured before you can expect others to feel compassion for yours. If the milk turns out to be sour, I aint the kinda pussy to drink it! |
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chiltonmusic said: DaveDare79 said: The thing about TRC that bothers me with every listen, was Prince really expressing anti-semitic sentiments on "Muse 2 The Pharoah" and "Family Name", or is he just misunderstood? I really hope it is the latter, but unfortunately I still makes me feel unsettled hearing his lyrics on these songs.
Read the below. What do the rest of you think? I imagine this has all be analysed in depth in the past, right? "Some of the lyrics were interpreted as being anti-Semite. In “Muse 2 The Pharoah,” Prince says that “Holocaust aside, many lived and died,” as if it is questionable whether the Holocaust should be considered. He asks the rhetorical question whether it is better to be dead or sold into slavery. “Family Name” also contains what seems like an anti-Jewish sentiment. Three times Prince has a person ask an African-American, “What you mad about?” In response, the lyrics note that the person asking the question still has his family name, unlike the African slaves forcibly renamed. The family names of each of the people in question are “Rosenbloom,” “Pearlman” and “Goldstruck.” The first two are common Jewish names. The third is essentially a corruption of such Jewish names as Goldstein or Goldberg, but all the more regrettably, the name Prince uses plays off the repugnant stereotype of the wealthy, avaricious Jew" [WARNING: Keep the topic on the intent of the lyrics and off any deep religious debate - or it may end up in the Politics and Religion Forum folks - luv4u] No Prince was addressing slavery and in the one sense comparing the holocaust to slavery and asking a very valid question. Which is worse being dead or being sold? The entertainment circles that Prince came up in were Jewish owned. So he is asking the gatekeepers questions about fairness. I got in this very argument over in the P&R circles about Jewish control of Hollywood. I personally believe that since jews created hollywood they still have a vested intrest in Hollywood. Obviously not all Jews just the desendants of those that did which is still pretty substantial. To me that is no more racist than saying "Gee alot of black men really dominate most of Americas major sports!" But truth be told somebody will try and call you a racist for saying that. I am black and that statement doesn't offend me in the least. I think its okay to ask questions of Jews or any other race or group of people and not be considered anti-them. I don't think its an unfair question for a white person to ask why so many blacks use the "N-word". I see that as being at its worst ignorant to that culture. Right now America is in such a silly place with these things. A few years ago Dusty Baker, a black man and then manager of the San Francisco Giants, said that "Africans were brought over to America to work the fields because they could withstand the heat and back breaking work!!" Well you would have swore he said "Enslave the blacks again please!!" He explained to the press that his mother was an African studies teacher and that this was all just history. Well the press eventually backed off. This past year the coach of the Air Force's football team said. "Hey we are too slow we need to get some black players" Once again the press treated him like David Duke. Meanwhile every black sports writer I heard from on the issue and my friends alike were wondering what in the hell the big deal was with that statement. Look at the NFL there aren't many white cornerbacks for a reason. Sorry to take the long route to answering this question but I think this is the logic you should apply to TRC as oppossed to the faulty logic the press engages in from time to time which is. If you mention a race or history outside of a certain context you are essentially dissing that history and its people. I totally agree with this!  It's annoying when someone is trying to get to the root of a steryotype and being called racist simply for their curiosity. It's silly...and btw there IS alot of Jewish people in important positions in Hollywood and the entertainment industry...that's not racist that is just true. | |
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lust said: workingupahiyellasweat said: 1 in 3 Jews were not affected by the Holocaust. That's absorbed, and silly. Where do your figures come from? I agree the number is too horrific to belive, however. There is a world population of Jews of just 12 million. 6 million died. So do the maths and thats 18 million before the holocaust 1 in 3 my friend. Now there is a sobering thought for you. 90 percent of Polands 3 million Jews were exterminated purposefully and systematically. The aim was to ultimately exterminate all 18 million of us. So if you are sick of hearing about the holocaust, imagine how repugnant I find the constant desire for people to belittle and play down its impact. I think it is important to find compassion for the suffering that others have endured before you can expect others to feel compassion for yours. we should never play it down, ever! i agree, what is wrong with the world? we should really question our SELVES, our mentality that is and hope the future will save us all. i think i posted about these trc lyrics before so i was surprised this issue was brought up like this. [Edited 4/20/06 22:04pm] | |
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