rld said:

I understand.

rld said:

cborgman said:

Not sure if I follow the "not as bad" comment. I interpret the lyrics as saying, basically, death - although terrible, is not as horrific as slavery, which involves the ownership of another human being, stripping them of their families and histories. The only exception he cites is....the holocaust, when he says, holocaust aside, many lived and died. This implies, in my opinion, that the holocaust was equally as horrific.

MorehouseMan said:

you are aware that the prison camps in the holocaust were also a means of slavery? the prisoners worked, producing products for companies. most famously, mercedes-bienz.

and you are aware that people, upon entering the camps, were stripped of the families? and that the nazis actively and aggressively destroyed historical artifacts and records?

that being said, you can see it how you like, but i see it as a diminishment of the holocaust, and it reads pretty clearly to me what he is saying.

but to each their own.

cborgman said:

I am aware of your points and have no idea why you would take such position assuming that I would not be. My comments did not in anyway minimize the atrocities associated with the holocaust. Again, I was simply illustrating that those lyrics highlighted the holocaust as another point in history that was horrific as was the enslavement of African people. With all due respect, did you read all of my comments? It's not about "to each his own". It appears that you firmly believe that the lyrics are anti-semetic and you are dismissing any other thoughts or opinions that say otherwise.

I take your comments above as an attempt to convince me of what occurred at the holocaust. As a result, you have completely missed my point. I refuse to engage in a what was worse debate here. If anything, as I said multiple times, the lyrics, in my opinion, point to similiarities and NOT differences.

that cd was anti-everything. Biggest mistake of his career. (IMO)

MorehouseMan said:

my apologies, it sounds as if my post came across as much more harsh than i meant it to. i was in no way trying dismiss your thoughts and opinion. my sincerest apologies.

what i meant to do was take issue with the lyrics, which you see as "saying, basically, death - although terrible, is not as horrific as slavery, which involves the ownership of another human being, stripping them of their families and histories." which i disagree with (the lyrics, not your interpretation of them) you then went on to say that to you the lyrics suggest "that the holocaust was equally as horrific." (again the lyrics)

it seems conflicting that the lyrics could both suggest that death is not as bad as slavery and at the same time suggest that they are equally horrific.

i think calling prince anti-semitic is a stretch, but i do think the album is offensive in its attitudes towards women and jews.

and when i said to each their own, i meant it as to each their own intepretation of the lyrics, nothing more.

I think it's pointless to compare two of the worst crimes commited against men to see which is worse.

But I think if we've learned anything about Prince over the years, it's that his intentions are to promote equality, but he often expresses himself in an unclear fashion.
[Edited 4/7/06 11:19am]

NDRU said:

deep political and philosophical lyrics are not really his forte

cborgman said:

But to his credit he calls out "Preacher, preacher" as well. So it's not one sided at least.

cborgman said:

True but it is not his job either.

NDRU said:

true.

Graycap23 said:

true.

i have said it before, i will say it again. i would KILL for a copy of TRC with no lyrics or voiceover. musically, it is probably his best, but the lryics, themes, thoughts, and the DAMN VADAR VOICE relaly ruin it for me.

Graycap23 said:

But when he says political & philosophical things publicly in his songs, he opens himself up to the criticism.

Still, I think he does a better job of it than our President.

NDRU said:

he has a bad habit about sticking his foot in his mouth. i bristled when i was listening to the one night alone LIVE cd set repeatedly. some of the the things he said really annoyed the crap out of me and took me right out of the music.

jjhunsecker said:

Some individuals get off on a victim mentality.

NouveauDance said:

cborgman said:

But didn't learning that dead blood kills interferons really change the way you thought about things?

NDRU said:

yes, it really made me see little red corvette from a whole new angle

cborgman said:

I see, fair enough. You know, I agree with earlier poster's comments regarding the vagueness of some of Prince's lyrics. The lyrics could certainly be misinterpreted and maybe that's the case with the Muse lyrics. He is a brilliant musician but his lyrics are sometimes baffling when he dips into the political arena, for example.

MorehouseMan said:

agreed. i honestly wish he would stay out of the political. the kevin smith story about the snakes thing really applies here.

Guys,


Prince is an artist. If we want things spelled out for us, there are tons of entertainers who simply sing lyrics into a microphone.
I'm glad the lyrics are vague. I'm glad that they continue to spark deep discussions among such a broad variety of folks. This what a true artist's goal is, whether they're a musician, a painter or a comedian.
Judging by this thread among hundreds of others that have touched on this subject, I'd say P accomplishd his goal, at least among the core audience.

"If the bra fits"

DaveDare79 said:

The FBI also led an operation called COINTELPRO which targeted Black leaders like Malcolm X, Martin Luther King,and the Black Panther Party. It is no mistake that the rise of Gangsta rap occured after the imfamous FBI report to congress. Since that time the numbers of Black males who have gone to prison has risen significantly.

I would not be surprised if Prince has a FBI file and would not be surprised if he was targeted by the FBI.

NouveauDance said:

It's not a "victim mentality" .

This is life . This is reality.

Is showing the events of 9/11 "victim mentality" ?

Just read Muse lyrics. There is nothing anti-semitic in them. I don't think a Jewish person would find them offensive. It quotes scriptures that the Jews are familiar with and it seems to speak of Esther who wins the Pharoahs favor and saves her people from death. Esther was a Jew.

This I know from "Veggie Tales, Esther...the girl who became Queen" . I buy them for my niece and nephew.
[sorry about the veggie reference but it's as deep as my bible knowledge goes]

RE: That Holocaust statement: He says "Holocaust aside". Which reads that it's better to be dead than a slave...except the Holocaust (he's well aware of the manner in which many were murdered there).

The lyrics are somewhat odd and unclear but not at all anti-Semitic. Not this song.

muleFunk said:

Don't go 2 DEEP on them. "They" cannot handle "it".

Keeping it short... P seems to enlightened to be an anti-semite. Also it would be really ironic considering that the Nazis persecuted Jehova's Witnesses in concentration camps too.

phlix said:

Yes, and gays.

anon said:

Good post. This is exactly how I interpreted the lyrics as well.