jjhunsecker said:

I agree but to make a comment that Slavery does not compare....that's a bit much.
Both were ridiculas in more ways that we can count. We have a lot more in common and should be a LOT closer than we are. The powers that be know that, and make every effort to us apart. That's a fact.

As is often the way when Jewish sensibilities are aroused, someone gets labelled anti-semetic.

All those who consider this to be anti-semetic, think about what diaspora is, and how in the context of this song, Prince references Jews, and in particular the settlement of Jews in America.

It really doesn't take too much to understand what he is doing, and using Jewish names, or as was accurately pointed out Germanic ones, does not make this song anti-semetic. The song is called FAMILY NAME, is it not actually a direct reference to slaves being re-named, and yet what we are all taking about is Jewish names being taken in an offensive way - says it all really. Prince has written a 6 minute political and socially conscious piece of music, and suddenly he is branded anti-semetic. It mazes me... no one jumps up and down about anti-American sentiment in his music quite so readily, and in fact what no-one is really picking out his his continual issues with black slavery and references to the emergence of black people in American society.

He also makes much comment on lawyers, white lawyers, as well as black, and no doubt Jewish lawyers - he has a clear dislike for them in the music industry - but where does all the concern come from there and whether he is raising a social issue there.

Prince has always laid down his musical and artistic comment on society, particularly American society - that is what made him a ground-breaking musician, and indeed an intriguing personality. He broke the rules on sexual explicit references in music, black power, white supremacy, religious hypocrisy, as well as homophobia, towards him or otherwise - Family Name is just an extension of this, but again to do with diaspora, black, Jewish or whatever.

Is Prince a social thinker, well actually yes he is, he won't change the world, but his music has always provoked social comment, and actually that is no bad thing when we seem to have amusic industry obsessed with 'bling', manufacturing pop stars, and let's face it mysogyny, can anyone defend the appaling videos proferred by so many ditto R&B and rap artists, quite shocking... thank God for artists like Prince and Me'Shell, let them comment, more and more and more!!!!!

padawan said:

Just read the lyrics. If you're right, that wouldn't be good. Evil is Evil. There should be no comparisons. Especially with the Jews because it wasn't the Jews that took Africans into slavery. In fact, it was the contrary.

If that's the case I hope someone made Prince sit in the corner for that one.

In the context of the song, though...It seems that he's expressing the sentiment of all those in conflict...because it ends:
"Black men and white men, Jews and Gentiles, Protestants and Catholics will b able 2 join hands in the words of the old Negro spiritual:
"free at last, free at last, thank God almighty we are free at last!"

In either case, I don't think the Goldstruck is cool.

u absolutely can't (and you don't have to. Period) say to jewish people that "at least, you still have your names so what u mad about?!".

I can't accept this kind of thoughts. I'm sorry but i think white people are responsible for slavery. Not jews.

People i'm white and i'm jew. I can understand slaves' grand sons to be mad at me (for what my white non-affiliated grand parents have done) but i'll never understand why some people have to put jewish-ism in it. It has nothing to do here.

Both slavery and holocaust are horrible thing. But one can't minimize one considering the other and vive-versa.

Please stop mixing everything with anything!!

rld said:

Prince can have the perspective he even he is wrong can't he?

Let me say it one more time!!!!! DIASPORA! For goodness sake, that is why he ends with the quote from Martin Luther King - man, there are some crazy fools in here!

thebige said:

Great post - well written - sums it up nicely.

Graycap23 said:

so, 75?

okay. i wondered...

cborgman said:

75 million people lived and died under US Slavery.

Graycap23 said:

i think that is why a lot of us have issue with the song. to say the holocaust does not compare is just as offensive.

Graycap23 said:

No he can't, there's no perspective at all to compare. And neither can we.

cborgman said:

I dig but if you just do the numbers, the comments amke sense.
75 million to 6 million. I believe that a part of what Prince was comparing.

Chasing said:

Word...

Graycap23 said:

If my mother were one of the 6 mil or one of the 75...it would be the same evil to me. It's insane to compare evils.

DaveDare79 said:

I think a HEAVY subject like the holocaust should not be *ambiguously* name-dropped into a pretty standard r'n'b track like"Muse 2 The Pharaoh".

Besides, I feel it is out-of-place in the context of the groove/mood etc

Graycap23 said:

If it was his idea to compare numbers, he's a complete jerk (to be polite). And so are people who think like him.

Chasing said:

well, in some degree i agree with you, but what you are not considering is the "goldstruck" reference, which plays upon the age old stereotype that hitler even used to great effect to cast jews as greedy money-grubbing evil entities.

Graycap23 said:

no, 75 seems more accurate. 275 seemed incorrect. that is why i asked.

and that is what i don't understand. i understand being upset about slavery, god knows. but instead of lashing out at the decendants of the people who were responsible (which also seems counter-productive. do we hold modern day germans responsible for the holocaust?) he lashes out at a completely unrelated group who suffered, trying to minimize their suffering and peppers it all with a dig at them based on an old stereotype.

anon said:

No doubt. But I see a bigger picture here. This cd sparks debate and get people to talk and 2 think. I like that. The world really does need to discuss IMPORTANT things like history more. I believe it was Prince's intent from day one.

cborgman said:

well said cborg!!

rld said:

But you see.....we don't really know what Prince thinks. All we have is his art, and that does not mean a thing as to insight on the man. I accept his art 4 what it is. If I got upset at everything that was anti'black.....I would NEVER leave my house. But I do.....and it's all good.

Graycap23 said:

And it seems to be. BUT it's a bit careless in its approach.

rld said:

thanks.

it's one of several reasons i hate TRC. it might be a stretch to call it "anti-semitic", but it certainly is offensive. and that's without even having discussed the somewhat sexist lyrics or the GOD DAMN VADAR VOICE.
[Edited 4/7/06 9:07am]

anon said:

exactly.

cborgman said:

If i took your approach, I basically would not watch TV, movies or music, especially hiphop. Do you know how many times in a given day that I hear something "anti black"?

Graycap23 said:

you're preaching to the choir. do you know how many times in a given day i hear or see or read something that treats gay people as a punchline?

thebige said:

I think that many have misinterpreted the lyrics "Holocaust aside, many lived and died". He is not attempting to diminish this horrible point in history, if any he acknowledges it by saying except for the holocaust, would you rather be dead or be sold? He is pointing to the horror of slavery, by stating for the most part death would be "better", holocaust aside, than being born into slavery. I think that it is also important to understand the lyrics "many lived and died". This in my opinion, clearly states that the holocaust involved many who died, but also, many survivors who lived through the horror.


In any event, just attempting to clarify.
[Edited 4/7/06 9:24am]
[Edited 4/7/06 9:24am]

cborgman said:

do you know how many times in a given day i hear something that said that one can't really say something about jewish without being treated as an anti-semitic?!

MorehouseMan said:

i am not seeing a huge gap of difference between "diminish" and 'not as bad as this'