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Printablepadawan said: YODAHENDRIX said: No his biggest mistake was putting Mayte up on a pedestal. I love the way she looked man but Prince like a lot of men chose to deify their woman thus inventing this aura of purity etc which is detrimental to all concerned, this muse, angel,earth mother of light creature, no one can live up 2 that billing just look at Mayte on that Tommy Lee Naked truth docu thats the real chick not the beautiful floaty thing dancing during 7 with those kids. [Edited 4/15/06 7:18am] Yeah. Lionizing women: Not a good idea. The thing people crave the most, more than anything in the world, is to be seen and acknowledged and accepted for who they are--not your fantasy image of them. If it was Mayte that derailed Prince music, maybe that's what he needed. Emancipation was inspired by her, right? Well it sure as shit sounds like he was channeling a high school student. Unfortunately those songs were bastardized in the studio by Kirky (just hate seeing that name with an engineers or producer's credit) J who produced the most plastic tepid rubbish of Prince's career...everything with the J stamp was shi*. anyway Mayte, high school student and all, did provide the influence 4 sum of his greatest work...from symbol 2 the epochal The Gold Experience. My thing tho' with the muse thing is that it will always lead 2 disappointment when u heap that level of expectation on 2 a person and especially one so young. Luminous beings are we...not this crude matter.
Is this 2morrow or just the END of time? The Funk will always b with u "I've got a face, not just my race, Bang Bang I've got you babe!" | |
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Wow, applause to all!
I've been here in various guises since the org creation when the mailing list ended back in the day, and i have to say, this is the best thread i have ever read here. 
Rebeljuice i bow down - brilliant deduction, great topic! 
More valid points and comments than i have ever seen in a single topic here (and just when i started thinking there were far too many sheep wearing rose tinted glasses... - no offence anyone - just a recent observation). My vote for best post so-far of the 21st century. That said, isn't it funny how the focus, drive and desire seemed to kinda have changed when the warner contract expired?... I guess even the most insanely genius need editing and discipline imposed when it's really needed...) (flame away o-yee-faithful) Like most have said, there's still been some amazing music released since '95, but album-wise its been pretty slim pickings (and here i'm basing this on Prince's standards, not others: 3-5 great songs is high by most, but we're talking about a guy with an unimpeachable past - he brought this harsh judgement on himself y'all). Once again, thanks all who have posted, it's been a great read and a most focused topic !! . [Edited 4/19/06 5:55am] | |
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 sorry, repeated deleted[Edited 4/19/06 5:53am] | |
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Agreed.
Along with the name change it was a period of such excitment and hope. Prince could call himself anything he wanted cranking out music like that. It truly sounded as though he'd been 'reborn'. All the music was such great quality. I bet even the vault stuff remaining from 93-95 is probably fantastic. Apart from a flourish in 2001 with 'The Rainbow Children' I do not think he has evolved creatively at all either. As much as I love Prince and I hate to admit it, creatively, he has stalled. In addition, I believe the influence of the JW religion and its restrictive doctrines has had a terrible effect on his lyrics. On many songs, most noticeably '3121', the lyrics are overtly simplistic and in other places, Prince sounds conflicted, singing a certain lyric, then trying to 'reverse' or 'invalidate' it later. '3121' is a good, solid little album but it covers no new ground and Prince doesn't sound particularly impassioned on any of it, with the exception of the finale to 'The Dance'. As a whole '3121' lacks either emotional or musical impact. 'Musicology' is the same. It has some quality songs on it, but nothing mind-blowing or jaw-dropping. Nothing that propels you into heights of excitment like Prince used to. Both 'Musicology' and '3121' sound like Prince has looked back at his most commercial work and simply tried to update it. Don't get me wrong, I like both '3121' and 'Musicology' but they are the sound of Prince coasting. And even if the sound of Prince coasting is still better than most artists, Prince is still coasting no matter what. | |
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Thetan said: Agreed.
Prince sounds conflicted, singing a certain lyric, then trying to 'reverse' or 'invalidate' it later[/b]. I don't care what religion Prince is or if he curses or not, but this bugs me too. He's obviously got the nasty thought "I know you want to take off all your clothes" and then he pretends he didn't by saying "but please don't do it." I buy the first part, but the second sounds forced, and not because it's not nasty, but because it doesn't flow well in the song--probably because it is forced. My Legacy
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No, the evolution did NOT stop in '94 imo.
There was a first evolution from '78 to '88, I think, that ended with "Lovesexy". If you look at what originally was planned to follow "Lovesexy" (the then shelved "Rave" album in its original configuration), I sincerely doubt that you can call that an "evolution". "Graffiti Bridge" was a good album imo, but most of its material was old stuff from the vault. In other words: the '89 to '90 period was Prince's first creative drop. That was just overshadowed by the "Batman" project, an unexpected inspiration and anything else than a long planned move (didn't he make that album in one week after surprisingly getting the commission?). However, Prince was musically reborn from '91 to '96 with new musical influences as well as his contractual/freedom issues from '93 onwards to inspire him. Following that period, there was what I'd like to call his second creative drop ('97 til '00), which might have had several reasons (including his private situation). I see the '01 to '06 period as Prince's next musical rebirth. He's creative again (TRC), does the unexpected again (N.E.W.S., several internet releases) and has proven since '04 that he still can make great pop records (Musicology, 3121). So, no, not a stopped evolution, more a creative up and down, and currently he is in an "up" phase - at least for me.  | |
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Evolution in this sense only really applys to what we hear on record.
Just because there were no horns in his music until 1986 or so doesn't mean that horns were new to him that year. He grew up with James & Tower of Power, he just hadn't released anything with horns in it yet. I think the evolution of an artist seems more drastic to the fan who only gets one hour a year from them. It could be that he's changing less on record, but he had almost 20 years of life & music before his first album. It makes sense that he's caught up to his own head to some extent. And the extremely wide boundaries he's set for himself are difficult to stray outside of at this point. You could say he's tattooing his music. He's done most of the outline and now he's filling in the colors. [Edited 4/19/06 14:24pm] My Legacy
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I disagree.
1. There are several slumps, both before and after 1994. At one point, the ATWIAD/Parade period was considered one such slump though it now appears very strong in hindsight. A definite slump occured post Lovesexy (and some even include Lovesexy in the slump itself.) I consider TRC/ONA piano/Musicology/3121 to be worthy of his catalog though it can't match the material created during the 80's. But a lot of the songs from 1994 are also difficult to compare with that period. That period is simply mythic and it won't be matched again by Prince simply because it was not just about the music, but also the time. 2. That artists need a degree of difficulty to create great music is just one of those clichés that as often true as it is false. Artists have created lasting works both in comfort and utter turmoil. However, I think you'll agree with me that if you're going to revolutionize pop music, it's best to do it when you are about the same age as the typical consumers of that music. Age, not "friction". is a more credible ingredient in this kind of genius, along with good collaborators of course. 3. I feel that this 1994 explanation is being aired again because fans are disappointed in 3121's performance. Had Black Sweat become a big hit and 3121 had been certified diamond or platinum or whatever already, you would probably be reading a much kinder assessment. The man has been having creative slumps regularly for over 15 years. I'll take 2000-2006 over 1995-2000 any day. | |
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Aerogram said: I disagree.
I'll take 2000-2006 over 1995-2000 any day. Interesting, but maybe true. Not sure if you include Gold in 1995? 1995-2000 definitely had more excitement. The prospect of Emancipation, Crystal Ball, the vaults being opened, imminent freedom, 1999 was approaching--but there was a bit of letdown from album to album, and the freedom wasn't quite what we expected. Now that our expectations may have lowered, maybe we're less excited, but the results are actually better. My Legacy
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NDRU said: Aerogram said: I disagree.
I'll take 2000-2006 over 1995-2000 any day. Interesting, but maybe true. Not sure if you include Gold in 1995? 1995-2000 definitely had more excitement. The prospect of Emancipation, Crystal Ball, the vaults being opened, imminent freedom, 1999 was approaching--but there was a bit of letdown from album to album, and the freedom wasn't quite what we expected. Now that our expectations may have lowered, maybe we're less excited, but the results are actually better. I don't include Gold. It's just that after that album, Prince seemed to be totally distracted and not in the right place creatively, especially in matters of production. And it's no surprise, with everything he was dealing with. It is definetely to his credit that he kept going, no matter how unimaginately. Then he did TRC and two very heartfelt tours plus Musicology and 3121, not to mention ONA piano. Fans have a right to miss the old Prince, but they have to remember they liked him in the first place because he wasn't a manufactured product of the industry. | |
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Rebeljuice said: The sound Prince had during the Gold era and Come was, in my opinion, one of his most unique and original periods where his sound was purely his own. Some people didn’t like this era and thought it was all beginning to sound the same, which they may have a point. I watched the Beautiful Experience on DVD last night and it reminded me of how brilliant the music was that was coming out of Paisley Park at the time.
I think the 94 period was the end of the evolutionary road in terms of Princes music. You can hear his sound evolve through all his albums (especially when you listen to some of the bootlegs surrounding each album) and then, after TGE it seemed to stop. After that we just got one off albums where there was no real direction in terms of where one ends and the next one comes along. Emancipation through to now has been a very disjointed 10 years that hasn’t ebbed and flowed like 1980 through to 1994 did. It seems that each album during the 80’s and early 90’s evolved and built upon the album that preceded it. You can hear how Dirty Mind became Controversy and how that album became 1999. You can hear how purple Rain came from 1999 and how ATWIAD came from PR… and so on right up until TGE. Then it just goes crazy. Up and down. Each album not really having its own sound and not really stemming from anything, it just appears. TRC just showed up. We never really heard his music evolve towards it. It just happened, and thus shocked many of us and confused us. Musicology. Where did that suddenly come from? And now 3121? I suppose 3121 has a very loose connection with Musicology. Maybe we will see more of a flow between his albums again now? Each one sounding different, but with a natural progression from the last as opposed to a complete in-your-face- u-turn in style and direction. Ok, I waffle. I know. My point is beyond me…. Agreed! But I still love his music in the 1990s and 2000s nonetheless!!! Just say "NO" to cow mucus consumption! | |
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I agree with the theory that somewhere after 95 Prince hit a wall. But in some ways Emancipation is a "truer" album than Gold in that there's alot of personal stuff in there that I dont think he's addressed since. His love of Mayte felt real, the birth of his son, his isolation and self reflection.
So from my point of view, Emancipation was the last time he really tried with good results. (TRC is too full of hate and judgement for my tastes but I guess you can say he tried something) | |
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Aerogram said: NDRU said: Interesting, but maybe true. Not sure if you include Gold in 1995? 1995-2000 definitely had more excitement. The prospect of Emancipation, Crystal Ball, the vaults being opened, imminent freedom, 1999 was approaching--but there was a bit of letdown from album to album, and the freedom wasn't quite what we expected. Now that our expectations may have lowered, maybe we're less excited, but the results are actually better. I don't include Gold. It's just that after that album, Prince seemed to be totally distracted and not in the right place creatively, especially in matters of production. And it's no surprise, with everything he was dealing with. It is definetely to his credit that he kept going, no matter how unimaginately. Then he did TRC and two very heartfelt tours plus Musicology and 3121, not to mention ONA piano. Fans have a right to miss the old Prince, but they have to remember they liked him in the first place because he wasn't a manufactured product of the industry. I've liked just about every album, but to me The Truth was the only thing that stood out from 1995-2000 as really interesting or different, album-wise. Emancipation is an achievement, but it's not a very exciting one. My Legacy
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