Why is he still in denial that he can't rap.

Yeah, I think it's clear Prince likes, listens to, and is influenced by this kind of music.

Influenced by popular chart music bleeding dry the commercial saturation of a genre aimed at suburban school children.



Whoopieeeee!

ANY Prince rap is at least better than "Brother With a Purpose." Ouch!!!

"...One’s success in this life is measured by tangible things. Material possessions. Your bank account. Your estate. Rap artists make no bones about this. They like the cash money and the parties and the fine women. To them these are 'real.'..."

Again, what are Morris Day and The Time about? That aspect is also another part of Prince's persona and has been since the early 80's.


"...Prince goes out of his way to denounce money, which is where he diverges from hip hop..."

Sometimes he does- ever hear "movie Star" ? He has a bunch of songs with similar themes.


"...So when Prince howls his name is Prince, he’s got two sides and they’re both friends, you must see how laughable this is. When he raps about pussy control hip hop nation does a collective eye roll and face palm. Personally I don’t mind his rapping, I think he’s got the chops to pull off a nice flow. He can rap just fine—it’s just not hip hop.>>"

1. Prince never claimed to be hip hop-just funky.

2. Pussy Control is a jam and even the hardest hip hop head follows his girlfriend to the fdancefloor when she wants to dance to it.

Remember this?.....


I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank
I'm #1 at the bank

NouveauDance said:

To be fair, we are not talking about Prince in interviews and. We are talking about his themes and attitudes presented in his music.

padawan said:

Therefore, there is a clear line between between Hip Hop and Rap. It's Hip Hop that is socially conscious, while Rap focuses on bling and braggadocio.

padawan

You're generalizing. Not everyone's definition of success is 100% material, including hip hop artists.

padawan said:

Prince is not considered a Hip Hop artist, but there are those in the Hip Hop community who speak about the same things Prince does.

padawan said:

Ah, now here you're completely off. The fact is, Tribe and Common are the essence of what Hip Hop really is. Those artists have always transmitted messages in their music. That's what real Hip Hop is.

padawan said:

No it's not! Hip Hop is no different than 'ol school country music in the sense that people are talking about what they believe in and where they're from. What was meant to be threatening is gangsta rap. Cinematic b.s. set to beats. Hip Hop, to be accurate, is an entire culture that is meant to be shared worldwide, not to threaten.

padawan said:

Prince never claims to be a Hip Hop artist or release Hip Hop music. He simply uses elements of the genre in his own music. There are no hard fast rules as to how you approach the message in your music, even in Hip Hop. Like most other things, Hip Hop encourages individuality. Plenty of real Hip Hop artists have discussed some of the same things Prince discusses in his music. They just don't sell as much as the flavor of the month.

padawan said:

I agree that hip hop is a culture or a state of mind that goes beyond mere music. However, it also transends the "thug life" mentality that's mostly heard on the radio or in videos. Artists such as Common, A Tribe Called Quest, and K-Os represent hip hop as much as and probably more than 50 cent and others like him.

As far as Prince is concerned, I don't see a problem with him "rapping" (which again, doesn't necessarily make it hip hop) and making it apart of his style. He has been successful at this a number of times and ofcourse he's dropped the ball quite a few times as well. When he does it right, I for one, don't even hear it as Prince rapping, it's just a good Prince song.

I see I almost mirrored the sentiments expressed by OdysseyMiles in my last post. I didn't realize that there was a second page to this post.

I wouldn't define what Prince does as rapping or hip hop. He's just talking instead of singing. He's doing is own thing as he always has.

O and nobody has mentioned Race, I love Race. But I wouldn't call that Rap or Hip - Hop.

xpertluva said:

It's like L Hill playing guitar, Prince's rapping.
He could fit right in with BEP, though.
He has some minor skills on the mic.

Prince doesn't rap. He preaches these days. It's the tone of 'his wisdom' that dominates the songs. Just listen to last 5 years work.

Radical Man...

OdysseyMiles said:

Thanks for this post. I think there are some divisions being invented that are overly literal, if not prejudicial. Moreso when dealing with Prince.

I also think that the first time anyone thought to cringe at any rap elements in his music was with the introduction of T.C. Ellis and Tony M. (and for a while a few years back, Doug E.); that bad memory keeps raising red flags whenever there is any rap in Prince's songs whatsoever, but Prince's own flow has almost always been smooth and justified.

Not counting outtakes (anyone heard "The P"?)

OdysseyMiles said:

Nice rebuttals. You're absolutely right. What I'm describing is gangsta rap, the hardcore subgenre of hip hop. And I contend that Prince tried to appropriate that attitude, even to the point of recruiting rap sidekicks who have a more baritone rap voice.

While I respect your more inclusive vision of hip hop, I still maintain the popular imagination views it as a dangerous element in music and society. Parents and politicians and priests approach hip hop with the suspicion and trepidation they once reserved for heavy metal. They make the same mistake I made: To assume all hip hop is gangsta rap. And until there is a breakout rap act that trumps the Biggies and Tupacs and Fitties, the flavors of the month will dominate the image of hip hop.

And let’s not forget the racial politics of musical genres. Hip hop stands diametrically opposed to country music. Hip hop is fast-paced, rhythmic, stream of consciousness, word-playing, language-bending, post-modern expression. Country is languid, twangy, wistful, romantic and patriotic. They are irreconcilable by design. The twain shall never meet.

Here’s the rub. The Biggies and Tupacs were minstrel acts. The reason they crossed over and sold a bunch of records to white middle class males was by fabricating a dark dangerous world—that became a self-fulfilling prophecy. And as it turned out, the very lifeblood of rap’s popular mystique. Rap sells danger. That’s what these ignorant kids want. They want to cruise in their suped up Hondas and blast something that scares the shit out of people.

Tribe Called Quest doesn’t quite capture the already dulled imagination of sheltered kids because the main guy is called Abstract and he actually speaks good English. He even makes a coherent argument about issues. That’s noble but it doesn’t move records. Doesn't excite the young 'nes.

Now I’m thinking about the scene in Crash where the Black carjackers talk about how hip hop was concocted by the feds to make black people look stupid...

Eh, anyway, hope that made sense. I fear I may have gone off on my own stream of consciousness rant.

Moonbeam said:

I do too
I quite like it

Gett Off , for example is my favorite song

Other than DOW and Face Down, (which are brilliant), most of Prince's raps make me long for the "authentic" skills of one Vanila Ice!

He has to stop say "trippin':.. cmon man...

I have no problem with him actually rapping because rap songs in the 1980s used to be just as funky and original as funk itself. Rap acts like The Egyptian Lover, Twilight 22, Soul Sonic Force, Pretty Tony and Freestyle, Grandmaster Flash, Felix and Jarvis, Dr. Jeckyl & Mr. Hyde, etc. were getting off and throwing down hard. Also, funk artists might have a short rap in the middle of their song like Teena Marie's "Square Biz" and Stacy Lattisaw's "Feel My Love Tonight". It had kind of a hip coolness about it until it later turned shitty.

However, in the 1990s, rap stripped all the instruments off and all that remained was the most boring, amateur sounding, K Mart sounding drum machine which barely tapped and never got past midtempo. Most of the R&B singers followed this K Mart sounding mess also so actually hip hop, as we know it today, is a "sound". And that sound has taken over and absolutely nothing else can come in and get airplay for it to either die or go underground.

My problem isn't with Prince actually rapping as long as he keeps the music behind it funky. "Race" is a perfect example of a funky Prince rap song. My problem is when he sells out to the horrible hip hop "sound", such as songs like "Incense and Candles". It's bad enough that shitty sound is dominating the radio already. The last thing I want to see is Prince selling out to it, possibly having a hit with it, and contributing to the problem even more.

vainandy said:

I agree with most of what you say in your post Andy, but I do feel that many times Prince can take a particular style, work it and hand it back on a platter the way it "should" sound and I think he succeeded with Incense and Candles.

padawan said:

Prince aint gon get gunned down
4 1 he runs to his limo directly after his concert is over
2 he carries about 9-11 body guards around him accept to awards show



Prince does need to be accepted in the rap world even though he should and I disagree to doing time because half the actual rappers of today have not done time just claimed they did to gain acknowledgement. as A matter of fact prince has probably been through more hard times than almost any rapper from 1999-2006
before then rappers like P diddy, ice cube, notorious BIG, tupac, easy e had actually been through somethin been 2 jail been shot been poor livin in compton so they have a reason to be accepted in the real gangsta rap world

not ja rule or fabolous

MickG said:

You're right of course. But have you listened to Incense and Candles? Prince has dramatically improved. Pretty flawless to me...apparently, he's getting the hang of it...much better than Tony M