I have listened to 3121 for the last couple of weeks and i did buy the 'real' record at the store yesterday. And from the start i am skipping two tracks:
- Incense and candles
- Beautifull, Love, Blessed

I have listened halfway trough them, at least i did try to, but i am really thinking: Man, why youre putting tracks like that on a record? They both are resembling those kind of bland R&B music released during the nineties: slicky produced music, not bad in terms of songwriting, but fake / plastic sounding in any way... I mean, a 14 yo might fall in love on this kind of music, but its a true shame that a creative, (musically) intelligent artist like Prince is putting tracks like this on his cd's... Its this soulless, visionless kind of music that made parts of Emancipation so dissapointing... I really have no idea why is putting effort in tracks like these.

I mean, Te Amo Corazon, is mediocre when it comes the songwriting, but at least it has a nice, layered arrangement (cuban elements in a Prince song...hey, something new).

The Dance is not The Beautifull Ones, but the songwriting is good (a kind of latin shuffle-melody i have never heard before from Prince) and the instrumentation / arrangement, alltough sounding a bit forced at first, is intricate and fresh after a few listens: I mean, its more subtle then in the past, but this track is the proof that Prince is able to combine music styles like not many other artists. A song also that creates 'hope' / a possible blueprint for future releases.

To get back to my point, two good ballads (Te amo Corazon, The dance), two very annoying ones (Incense and candles, Beautifull, Love and Blessed). Replaced by a 'good' ballad (see my thoughts on 'the dance') and one rock-orientated song (Fury is the only rocksong on this cd, and maybe its just a new-wave song in disguise) would probably make this cd a 8 out of 10 me for instead of a 7/10.

i kinda don't mind the rappy stuff he does on 'incense'...it reminds me of a slightly more inspired 'sun, moon and stars'.

Beautiful loved and blessed reminds me of mariahs we belong together, its a great song for the moment and i love the bass guitar part at the end. No other artist could do this with a pop track.

FunkyBrotha said:

Maybe I need to re-listen because that's the only track I can't stomach.

It's just too... sugary.

FunkyBrotha said:

still not thrilled with this track. i think there will be far better on tamar's album, and its inclusion on 3121 feels kinda obligatory.

Anx said:

I agree. Which is win-win for Tamar but not necessarily us.

I'm not one of these naysayer fans who immediately criticise anything they dislike but surely there were better songs to include than this? I can't even get past the intro.

Indeed...

he could have made a great funky album, elaborating on 3121, get on the boat, Love (with less plastic beats) but instead fills it with weak R&B ballads...What annoys me with prince ballads (at least over the past 18 years) is that for a few great and even amazing ones he gives us 80% of cheesy s**t. This album is no exception, I agree that the slow numbers were even stronger on Musicology (but the funkier tracks are much better on 3121)

Definately.

The Dance is the best one on there, and more than enough.

I don't mind BLB, but since it's gonna be on Tamar's album any way, it's complete filler on 3121 - And if there was ever an artist who had no need for filler, it's Prince!

Here we go with the r&b bashing again.

Why don't I ever see any dissing towards P's pop or rock tracks?
[Edited 3/22/06 9:13am]

PurpleCharm said:

That's a good question and I've noticed this biased towards his R&B stuff. Somethings not right about this. Oh, and I don't think there's anything wrong with those songs.

PurpleCharm said:

OK.... Fury's as weak as Angel's piss.

Is that better for ya?

NouveauDance said:

No! You need to say "Fury is one of those bland, generic rock tracks that I can't stand ."

PurpleCharm said:

because nobody feels a need to?

i like some of p's bedroom ballads, but some of them i think just follow the same ol' recipe with different words. i think a lot of 'em are boring, but i know the bedroom ballads are one of his trademarks, so i've made peace with the fact that they aren't ever going anywhere.

Anx said:

I understand what you are saying, but.....

there is an obvious bias against r&b music on this site. When someone doesn't like one of P's non-r&b songs, folks go into the specific details as to why they don't like it, without reference to it being a "rock" track or a "pop" track. When it comes to tracks that are non-rock or non-pop, it's immediately identified as being an r&b track, followed by that being the reason for not liking it...IMHO
[Edited 3/22/06 9:48am]
[Edited 3/22/06 9:49am]

PurpleCharm said:

i think most of what he does is R&B. i think that's the base of his music. over that he layers rock or blues or funk or folk or whatever. the 'bedroom ballads' have less to do for me with being 'r&b' than they do with being the same melodies and ideas rehashed over and over and over. i mean, he's written "insatiable" a bunch of times, with different titles. but people seem to love it every time, so why complain about it? i just skip it and go on to the next. i like his up-tempo stuff, unless it's a guitar ballad like "beautiful strange" or "purple rain". that's just my thing.

And what if you really love those two songs? What makes them Bland? Incense and Candles is very pretty and veers off in to wonderfulness. BL&B has one of the funkyiest endings on the album.

I just don't get "bland" from them. Satisfied...Yeah that's pretty bland, but I know many like that song.

onenitealone said:

ANd then there are some of us that REALLY like that song. Not at first...At first with BL&B and Te Amo...I was dubbing the new album 3YAWN 2YAWN. I was mistaken. Many...if not all of the songs have something new on each listen and grow on you.

Sorry but I happen to really like Incense & Candles. It's not my absolute favorite track here (that would be Love) but I think it's a vital part of what makes 3121 an enjoyable record, FOR ME. I think that TAC and The Dance are, also, GREAT tracks.

I do wish Satisfied and Get On The Boat had been replaced by something in a style he hasn't done a million times over. ... and BL&B really doesn't fit the rest of the album, imo.

superspaceboy said:

I'll definitely have to give it another listen, then.

I do love 'Incense & Candles', though. I've seen a lot of people criticising it - or saying it's their least favourite track - but I adore it.

Totally agree!

"Incense and candles" is at most a mediocre song, but "Beautifull, Love, Blessed" is a good composition.

BUT the arrangement/production is horrible, plastic programming like in the middle 90s. "Beautifull, Love, Blessed" would sound great & funky in a live arrangement/production (like the SNL version).

Riverpoet31 said:

Anx said:

"Incense & Candles" and the word "inspired" should NEVER be used in the same sentence.

The Sun The Moon & Stars is much, much better than that piece of piss.

soulsurfer05 said:

I disagree. Except the first track which is way up in the stratosphere all on its own, the whole album is crisply and cleanly produced. It is very polished. However, unlike some of his 90’s output there is still “space” in the songs. He hasn’t over-indulged and filled every space with a sound or vocal just because he can. He hasn’t layered his vocals to the point of saturation like on Rave and TGE. It is more minimally produced. This time round he knew when to stop – less is more. BL&B is a brilliantly produced song imo. The soundscape is used brilliantly, the vocals perfectly set in the mix. All the sounds have a place and nothing is drowning something else out… Plus, it’s a great fucking tune too! Vocals are awesome! It fits the album.

Personally I would like to hear Incense and Candles produced with more organic sounds. Live drums, distant reverb on the vocals (minus vocoder!), a bit more guitar and that bit towards the end where the vocals break down into a bit of a rousing chant before breaking back into the chorus, that bit shoulda carried on a bit longer and built itself up more… But, it probably wouldn’t have fit the album if he did all that.

I think he has done most things right this time round for yet another attempt at a commercial pop record. He hasn’t over done the production yet still kept a mainstream sound, he hasn’t given us 30 songs on 3 sprawling CD’s and he hasn’t added any over-indulgent 10 minute epics about how many songs he has written or how much money he has made.
[Edited 3/23/06 3:19am]

PurpleCharm said:

Cos its clear that the R&B stuff is unchallenging and like watching paint dry (well produced it may be) and the "Rock stuff" sounds better -Modern r&b is so lifeless and samey and the sooner we forget about the largely non descript nod to that by Prince in the 90s the better. While I'm ranting , I also think that Prince should move away from that "gangsta" intonation in his vocal delivery when singing on this stuff - he doesnt speak that way and he never used to sing that way. That said I think 3121 is very good and apart from the r&b filler is up there with the best of the last 15 years.

I agree that the ballads are less engaging than the uptempo tracks, but I would single out Te Amo and Satisfied as the least interesting songs. These songs don't do much for me. Incense and Candles and Beautiful, Loved, and Blessed, however, I enjoy.

I have to say, I normally hate new R&B, I think it is very limited in it's sound. With that being said, I think Incense and Candles is a really good track, I enjoy it.
[Edited 3/23/06 7:03am]

clarityman said:

The nature of Prince is that he doesn't stick to any single genre as most musician would, be it R&B, Funk, Pop, Rock or whatever. Hence he has a wide variety of core fans. Sure he makes some music which defies genre and we all can get into equally... but its the other clear cut stuff which seperates us.

For the most part... Orgers hate R&B and at best tolerate any other genre outside of the one which they would identify with most..... and they seam to be very passionate in this R&B hatred.

I get the impression often that a lot of people won't post thier honest admiration for some songs for fear of getting relentlessly flamed for having thier own taste and stating thier own opinion.

I personally can't get enough of Incense & Candles, Beautiful Loved & Blessed and Love w the Dance getting nearly as much play time. People here are going crazy over a couple other tracks which to me... just aren't that..... enjoyable.

But thats my opinion... does my opinion make those automatically 'bad' tracks...NO... I just don't like them as much... but I know someone else will.

personally when I hear that Cher ("Believe") vocal effect I turn it off. And I also agree that the ballads are the weak link on the record. Prince sounds like a self parody when he's done ballads on the last 3-4 records. His lyrics all sound like lines "Prince" would say. But he's trying to balance it with his JW stuff...just a cheese fest. They're not naughty or heartfelt...

Nero

clarityman said:

Can you give the names of some commercial modern rockers?
[Edited 3/23/06 8:24am]

Maybe this has also to with the meaning of 'R&B', i mean: in america black music is called / labelled R&B since the 1950's, over here in Europe R&B is a term used in general since the early nineties used for the kind of slick, polished music by the likes of Usher, R. Kelly, Ashanti, Beyonce etc.
When i say 'bland R&B' i refer to that type of music.

I mean: Prince is trying to copy that sound too often in my opinion, while in general i think that style of music is lacking real soul, sounding plastic often, too cheesy (in a bad way, Lolita is cheesy to, but in a purposely campy way).

On the other hand, i must say Incense and Candles is growing on me: the repeat of the chorus at the end of the song, is sounding a bit reggae / dance-hall to me now.

Also the Word, a song i didnt like a lot in the beginning is growing on me, because of the musical 'surprises' near the end of the song.

With that i try to say, some songs on the album are more surprising, less generic then i thought on first listens. I must say i was probably a bit dissapointed by the high expectations i had about this record, but listening to the cd for a week now i think it when it works bast to NOT think about Parade or Sign of the Times, but let the music speak for itselve. My thoughts about this cd now: 8/10, instead of 7/10 i first gave to it.

purplecam said:

I think the reason there is more R&B into 3121 is because of what he started in Musicology...wanted to show this generation how music should be done. R&B is an almost dead art form. While 3121 starts off with the electrco-funk that makes you think of 1999 and jump excitedly, I think he's also using the R&B sound of the album to continue what he was doing on Musicology--showing that R&B is still a viable sound today on its own.

While Prince's music in the 80s topped most of the market of R&b at the time, there was a hell of a lot more competition putting their music on the table--Earth Wind & Fire had something out on a regular basis, as did Stevie Wonder, Diana Ross, The Isley Brothers and others. Those people set the bar for what R&B should sound like, so the up-and-coming singers of that time, as well as the funk bands (Midnight Star, The Bar-Kays, Luther Vandross, etc), had their A-game going. Now, you have to hunt down and google and search for that kind of quality in R&B. To me, that's why he's still using more horns instead of lettin the guitar fly on 10 out of 12 tracks. He feels like he has to show the way on how to do it. Stevie Wonder just put out his first release in 10 years. Diana Ross hasn't put out anything of late. The majority of the people that Prince competed with and respected aren't out there so much.