Sdldawn said:

Man, that synth banging is the shit!

It's so wonderfully over-the-top, cheap sounding, lo-fi! Just what that song needed at that very moment.

It's also amazing the power Prince still has to bring people together, even the haters.
I hadn't seen Bart's bitter old ass in this section for ages, yet here he is, like clockwork, to piss on Prince and the fans.
It's one thing to keep your fans happy, but when you can keep the haters all worked up after all these years, you must be doing something right.
I mean, I bitch about MJ all the time on this site, but I've never taken the time to go an MJ site and bitch about him there, cause truth be told, I really don't care about him that much to take the time. But not old Barty boy. He's gonna take the time to share his nuggets of wisdom and insight on how Prince has lost it.
Like I said, it's the power of Prince. Even the haters can't stay away.

the next tour should only be songs from 3121 and Musicology

FanofDaFascist said:

SynthiaRose said:

As the old saying goes: "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time..."

So, how do we keep everybody else happy if we revert back to the long, one page thread structure? We'd love to know, so answers on a postcard to...

Oh, and you guys DO know that you all can still view threads as one long page if you so wish? Well, that is if you'd been paying attention to the relevant threads in the org site discussion forum since this was actioned...

Indeed, this Bart Van Hemelen needs to see a doctor urgently...


As for the album it has all what I love and hate about the post-1988 Prince:

PLUSES:
- he still has this unique, so excentric funky vibe (3121 the song, the guitar riffs and arrangements throughout the album)

- this peerless variety of instruments, colors and sounds (the end of the dance, the latino flavor on the otherwise JB track Get on the Boat...)

- what a singer (his best and too often overlooked instrument)


MINUSES:

- he is no longer able to deliver a concept album (TRC was an exception in this respect, whether you like it or not), possibly because he gets no external eye/criticism on his work (this does not necessarily mean a producer).
3121 is more cohesive than the average Prince album of the 1990s-2000s but still sounds like a collection of songs. He could do a weird funk album (with Michael B and Sonny T he could easily elaborate on 3121 the song), an R&B album (something i would not like but many songs on this album actually have an R&B vibe)...etc...but instead choses as always to give us a bit of everything. This is a very risky strategy, that is it can be fantastic when the songs are amazing (Parade, Sign O the Times) but pitiful when they are weaker (Rave)

- some songs sound painfully outdated (Fury is awful in this respect, althought it indeed sounds fantastic live), another result of his excessive isolation from the rest of the world.

- I miss an organic/live vibe (as opposed to the plastic sounds and beats he too often delivers: for instance Love is a great funky song which to me is plagued by the plastic beat). His best albums have that vibe. Many fans certainly feel like me on this one, this is probably why they cherish The Gold Experience (most songs on this album were not that great but at least it was masterfully produced with a strong live vibe throughout)

Nasalhair said:

Maybe there is something wrong with those CDs pressed for the UK?

Track 1 = 69 minutes long! - it is the whole album in one track (a bit like what was done with Lovesexy)
Track 2 = blank
Tracks 3 - 12 are all fine and can be ripped as expected.

Very strange.

murph said:

Bold words, my friend. And yeah, Prince owned the 80s. Prince owned that decade,
banged and rocked and pumped that decade, fooled that decade into jumping into Lake Minnetonka, smacked that decade up and made that decade his bitch. True fact.

BartVanHemelen said:

Bart, you're sweet-ah, but 1993-94 was simply the last time you liked Prince records. Some of the songs of that period were terrible... actually some of the worst excesses of his career. As for collaboration, he did enough alone during his glory days not to be seen as someone who always absolutely needs a collaborator.

The only thing I dismiss is the grand expectation. Maybe one day you'll have a different view but then again maybe not, since it's you we're talking about.

What can I say... I have been to Mn to see Prince perform for 7 nights and I really feel at home with this Cd. I find his return to sensuality a norm for him. He has always been one that has represented love and BOY do he DO it Well...

Goose bumps for the ballads. I hope to see him in concert in Upstate NY VERY SOON! (Hint for the purple one)

I will play this everywhere I go til I know it back to front!

NICE GOIN Prince

Aerogram said:

Yeah...I feel U...Like I said before, I can understand the haggling over 3121...It happens with an established veteran who is staring at the twilight of his career...(By the way, I think 3121, is a fluid, confident effort; not on the peak shit that some of the fams are screaming; but that's another story)

However, this revisionist history shit is just plain silly Bart...Before he even collaborated with Wendy, Lisa, or anyone, the midget had already knocked out three landmark releases (Dirty Mind, 1999 and Purple Rain)...I respect your opinion Bart...you are very strong in your convictions...but that's a thesis I can't support...But I will agree to disagree about 3121...Cuz that's just opinion...

Ok - I wrote a long reply yesterday (which woulda made it to page 4 or something) and it got wiped, which is good:
Yesterday I was disappointed about it not being distributed in Israel, so I downloaded and was disappointed by what I heard.
I'm now much happier, but kids:
Incense and Candles - how could he do that?
I was hoping for the best album in 10-15 years, and I guess setting myself up for disappointment, but see, for me 1989 was aturning-point: the first time there was a trak on a P album that I actively disliked (guess which? ). that's when things started being up-and-down IMHO.
3121 is a really good album, and I could forgive some weaker trax, if they weren't downright terrible - after a couple of listens, I guess it's mainly I&C. Now as someone said, there may be a good song hidden in there somewhere, but pleez, that voie distortion stuff has always been annoying even when used sparingly, here it's just UNLISTENABLE (I'd call it "aural pollution" - like scraping your nails down a blackboard).
So it will go up there with the good P albums, but not a masterpiece in my view.

Does any1 else feel that lately (since 1999, perhaps since 1990!) P seems too eager to please with the exception of TRC)? What at school we called a "try-hard" (except one with oodles of talent!)...

(Oh, and I'm always happy 2 c Bart, even if I think he's talking out of the wrong orifice... Call it nostalgia!)

BartVanHemelen said:

Good for you! Maybe if you strain yourself, you could actually put your dick in your mouth and give yourself a blowjob?



Disagree, it's a GREAT song...



Agree, at this point in time I'd rather have remasters of his Warner albums along with 12-inch compilations and a Dylan-style Bootleg Series (a guy can dream right?) instead of a new album...

"3121" is a pretty good album... with 3 EXCELLENT songs imho... but it's not the masterpiece that people are proclaiming it to be... end of rant...
[Edited 3/22/06 4:23am]

observations on my first listen:

1) Those who say they listened to it once (or twice for that matter) and say they don't like it and are putting it on the shelf somewhere should turn in their purple cards and hit the exit. There is way to much going on on this album to have a coherent opinion after a couple of listens.

2) No this is not musicology 2. Doesn't sound anything like it. Maybe the marrying kind/iewtmiul would fit on 3121, but overall the album's sound is very different. Musicology songs for the most part were more direct and "normal" sounding. 3121's songs are more demanding of the listener. More twists and turns. This not a negative critique of the musicology songs (I enjoy that album a lot).

3) As someone else stated if 3121 was by some new jack people would be shocked at the scope of this new talent, but since its Prince a lot of people undervalue it because of previous work. This will always happen now no matter what he creates.

4) The CD is very lush and extravagant. Songs a lot of people criticize sound pretty good to me on first listen. There is definitely a negative bias on this site against contemporary R&B. I've read many negative complaints about Incense and candles, BLAB, and satisfied. I find all three too be very good. Saying satisfied sounds like "On the couch" and then dismissing it on that account would be like dismissing Fury because it has rock guitar like "let's go crazy". Its just apart of the same genre (classic sounding R&B).

5) I do hear the contemporary production touches that others have said sound like Brittany, Janet, neptunes, timberland, Justin, whoever. The difference is that Prince is putting his collective genius to work within these structures. That certainly makes a difference


6) Love it or hate 3121 it proves to me that the well is no where near dry for Prince. This CD doesn't sound like any other. I would describe it as Electro Pop Funk with a twist of Latin. 20 years ago at this time we were listening to Parade. It is nothing short of remarkable that 20 years later we are listening to something so new and fresh from that same incredible musician. Some of you can't seem see the "forest from the tress". Prince is still evolving and still hungry.


7) Do I like the CD? I don't know how much or where it ranks. What I do know is that Prince remains a tornado of creativity 28 years into a workaholic career that most mere mortals can't really comprehend. Kudos Prince!

BartVanHemelen said:

what a troll and party-pooper. So u don't like it. big whoop! Why this need to put down the music just because u don't like and haven't since 1995. Why are u still hanging around? Do u have some sort of sickness?

MattyJam said:

You will never apprceiate the new if u constantly reach for the old

interesting to see the haggles going on between the quality of the album. I've listened to it 4 times since buying it a couple of days ago.

Initially I think i suffered from GoldenGlove syndrome, i fell for the hype abit, was impressed that people who've liked P since the start were loving the album and I liked all 4 songs debuted live or as singles, so I had high hopes.

That said, now I've lived with it, even only for a couple of days, I really like the album. Personally, I thin Incense and Candles ruins the whole vibe of the album, the first four songs are all quality, then that hits and it ruins the flow (in that its crap). At first I didn't think much of Love, but i really like the lyrics and the riff is just fantastic. I'm surprised more people on here aren't comparing some of this stuff to his NPGMC Yr1 & 2 stuff, Black Sweat and Love could come right out of that period with little being changed about them at certain parts.

I think one of the worst things about the album is its actually quite frustrating, while I still think overall Musicology is a strong album (its only tracks 2-4 I'm not mad keen on, and even then 3&4 particularly), theres something about THAT album, that lacks a certain Prince magic that 3121 has plenty of, but the material kinda lacks a certain consistency.

But when I go through the album (3121) track by track, like I say, its just Incense & Candles thats similar to alot of Rave era material in that I can listen to it just fine but at the same time would put it on my list of weak Prince songs.

But the 'otherworldly' aspect on alot of Prince songs and albums, that almost made it seem more than just 'music', to me at least, is present at times on this album, notably the song 3121 and The Word. That little horn line that comes after the strums of the guitar just blows me away, just that one little riff - its ace.

Sorry, I've gone on far too long than I initially intended too, I really like the album overall, I like his Choc Invasion and Slaughterhouse era, at least the stronger stuff, so to hear that influence over an album, mixed nicely with an 80s influence (Lolita etc), is real 'ear candy' (as they say) to me, so in that respect I'm pleased with the album.

I suppose i still bear the frustration i think alot of Prince fans feel that his records are often marred by one or two attempts at contemporary RnB which don't come off. Ironically Prince to me is at his most contemporary when he's not set out to make a contemporary song. its hard to explain I suppose, and I say that but I still think Black Sweat kicks ass!

What I find funny about this whole 3121 thread is finding out how many people actually liked Musicology, which I think is one of the worst albums I ever heard song-wise, lyric-wise and mix-wise.

3121 is very, very good in comparison.

it has occured to me that perhaps people should post their favourite and least favourite Prince albums before commenting on a new one to give the report some perspective! I like Musicology, its not mind blowing buts its a fun album, plus Reflection is one of my fave prince songs!

Oh, my fave albums are Parade, SOTT, The Truth, ONA and TRC!

GoldenGlove said:

Co-sign, although 'Fury' loses a lot from the live version. 'The Dance' blows. I even like "insensce & candles" and BLB....

Not a bad little record at all on the first few listens.

"Love" and "Boat" are rediculously good.

lynx said:

Anyone else notice the cd says "3121 - The music"...? Implying something further to come like "the concert" or "the videos"

Maybe I read to much into it.

This be written 24 hours after having bought and listened to 3121..

It's the first Prince cd in awhile that I've played over and over again, and not hit the skip next track button. I love this cd

I got it yesterday. I like every song on this CD. I listened with a friend then alone. Listened on the way to the gym this morning on the way to work, now ripped it to my pc at work and still listening. The more I listen the more I love it. My favorite is Fury, tho not as intense and exciting as the SNL performance, I still love rocking to this song. Of course by Friday I may have a different favorite song. This CD has it all.

BartVanHemelen said:

For someone who's constantly making fun of people who can't get their facts right, maybe you should follow your own advice and google some things before posting.

Musicology sold around a million in the US with retail sales alone. Including the concert giveaways, it's over 2 million. Worldwide sales including US giveaways were at 6.3 million (according to Wikipedia). Even if you subtract the giveaways, it still clocks in at 4.5 to 5 million worldwide. That hardly qualifies as "a couple of 100,000 max".

For the "used to sell a couple of million worldwide without much trouble": Have a look at the sales of "Graffiti Bridge": 2.2 million worldwide (only 500,000 in the US, his home market, according to Housequake). "Rave" was at 1.75 million worldwide, so not too much lower!

Facts can really spoil trolling, can't they?
[Edited 3/22/06 6:30am]

BartVanHemelen said:

i totally agree that there are fans who can't hear anything negative about prince...ever. he could spit on their mother and they would assume she did or did something to deserve it.

but there are also fans who just really dig most of what the guy does. when a record comes along, they just really enjoy it. you shouldn't go around telling those people "what they're thinking deep down inside." it really makes you look

i really like the album, so far.
'the word' is the earworm inside my head today.

I just got mine and really like it. I also really liked Musicology. The one thing this album really makes me want to do is buy a ticket to see these songs live! I wonder if he does that on purpose. I wish I had not heard Fury on SNL because that version was great compared to the cd. I don't think there will be any hits though. This stuff is too good for radio.

softandwet said:

Did u write this yourself or did u read my post above, enter my brain, and write what I think?

pkidwell said:

i could see a few tracks getting a radio edit. love could be a smash on radio as could fury. if universal is interested in taking a risk, i think the word would be a great choice for a single. it may have a religious message but so did vertigo and that was a massive hit for u2; both songs have a religious message so i don't see the subject weighing more than the melody.

GodzHand said:

Interesting how that has leaked after we all bought the first day release. I almost bought the NPGMC copy with the pin. I would have ended up with 3 versions.

Anyhoo - The Album

I've enjoyed it.

3121 - an understated anthem for creating a scene ( a place to be ), but does the trick
Black Sweat,Love,Satisfied, lolita, BLAB are good songs with bright spots.

I'm really into Fury, The Word and get on the boat.

The Dance ? I like this one too, but I just got Chocolate invasion last week so very little time to get used to either version.

Thank U Prince. An album a year and tour every two is just fine by me.