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Printablesacredwarrior said: i havent heard 3121 yet
but from the wide variety of fan comments and reviews i've read it seems to me he's tried to copy artists he's heard on the www  lemme guess, he stole some of your music, right? Remember he stole "Some of the Best Things Emanate From Sound..." from you too during for the Musicology cd liners too.  | |
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Some examples from people who've worked with Prince on his breaking new ground:
Don Batts : "Prince was completely enamoured with the drum machine and would break new ground experimenting with its sound by running the outputs through his guitar effects pedals and by detuning different drum sounds .I think innovation was the key from him when working with the drum machine .Clavets were tuned to the point where they sounded like tin cans." From DMSR page 98 Susan Rogers: Prince's recording for Purple Rain represented a mind-boggling crazy quilt of sources.It started when technician Susan Rogers was unexpectedly asked to tear out Prince's studio and transport it to the warehouse.Rogers remembers "Thats when I learned not to be afraid to try something because it hasnt been done before .This was something that was unheard of in textbook engineering.You dont record a band live in a warehouse with no isolation between the musicians and the engineer .But I was learning the ways of Prince ,just hook it up and do it !" From The Hits / The B-sides liner notes Just 2 examples , but how many times do you need to break ground in a career for chrissakes lol . If 2 people who actually know music and the technicalities of making it ( and were hugely singificant in Prince's career ) think Prince has broken ground thats good enough for me thanx very much .  [Edited 3/18/06 18:53pm] Check out Chocadelica , updated with Lotusflow3r and MPLSound album lyrics April 2nd 2009 :
http://homepage.ntlworld....home2.html | |
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I can't believe nobody's defending Michael Bolton in all of this!!!  | |
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Also, Rosie Gaines is definitely ground breaking.  | |
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moonshine said: Some examples from people who've worked with Prince on his breaking new ground:
Don Batts : "Prince was completely enamoured with the drum machine and would break new ground experimenting with its sound by running the outputs through his guitar effects pedals and by detuning different drum sounds .I think innovation was the key from him when working with the drum machine .Clavets were tuned to the point where they sounded like tin cans." From DMSR page 98 I mentioned in an earlier post that Prince's use of the drum machine would the the closest thing to "groundbreaking" in my mind... 
Susan Rogers: Prince's recording for Purple Rain represented a mind-boggling crazy quilt of sources.It started when technician Susan Rogers was unexpectedly asked to tear out Prince's studio and transport it to the warehouse.Rogers remembers "Thats when I learned not to be afraid to try something because it hasnt been done before .This was something that was unheard of in textbook engineering.You dont record a band live in a warehouse with no isolation between the musicians and the engineer .But I was learning the ways of Prince ,just hook it up and do it !"
From The Hits / The B-sides liner notes How many fans, honestly, do you think became fans because of how Susan Rogers recorded some of his songs, though...lol...I mean, there have been TONS of examples of "groundbreaking" recording and engineering throughout rock history, and it's not like Prince fans are fans of every record and artist that utilized them... | |
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Byron said: Probably THE most often heard (read?..lol) complaint is that "Prince isn't breaking any new ground with (fill in the blank)"...that he's not "pushing the envelope on this CD"...etc, etc.
I personally don't believe that Prince has ever broken new ground, given us something we've never heard before...and has rarely pushed the envelope musically. My own viewpoint has always been that what made 99% of people Prince fans is his ability to concoct ridiculously catchy and infectious melodies that are coupled with insanely dancable beats and a cool and charismatic vocal delivery...as well as showcasing some incredible musicianship. That's one helluva combination, and one helluva rare one in pop music...so rare that my view has always been that's a huge reason why he remains so irreplacable in many fans' minds and hearts. But none of that is about "breaking new ground" or "pushing the envelope" musically. That he seemlessly adds hints of several genres to the mix was the icing, as well as the sign of genius. That he was able to do it so consistently year after year, album after album, was the icing, as well as the sign of genius. Anyone can (theoretically) do it once...to do it seven times in a row is a sign of something else. But again...qualities of groundbreaking and envelope-pushing, at least in my mind, really didn't play too much of a role as to why the majority of Prince fans became Prince fans to begin with. My theory is that Prince's "sound" was somewhat new to the pop music scene when he first arrived...and definitely was new to individual listeners. I was in college in Indiana when Prince first hit it big...a lot of people hearing his music in Indiana may have felt it was groundbreaking and innovative, but at the same time a lot of people in Indiana didn't know Prince from Freddy Prinze (literally, I mean that), and thought my Walkman was a hearing aid at the time (again, literally)...lol...so, no offense to Indiana, but just because it was considered "groundbreaking and innovative" to their ears didn't really mean much. Maybe a lot of Prince fans are similar...that just because his music seemed "different" to their indivudial ears, doesn't mean it was groundbreaking and envelope-pushing...it may just mean that not too many pop music lovers were exposed to a lot of various musical types and genres. So I was thinking...what are the best examples of Prince being truly "groundbreaking", "innovative" and "pushing the envelope"??... Just so you know where I stand, I don't consider leaving the bass line out of "When Doves Cry" to be groundbreaking or innovative...I also don't consider using a synth where you would normally hear real horns to be innovative, either. In my mind, Prince brought the use of a synthesizer in pop music to new heights through his amazing musicianship. In other words, his use of the synth was lightyears better than the stuff you'd hear on an Asia or Loverboy album at the time...lol...but was it anymore groundbreaking? Not really, no. Just much, MUCH better performed and played. His use of a drum machine probably falls closer to groundbreaking in my eyes (or maybe I mean "innovative" moreso than groundbreaking)... Anyhoo.. Give examples of truly groundbreaking, unique, pushing-the-envelope songs in Prince's career...I guess I just want to get an idea of what fans mean when they use these terms to explain why they became fans.  Nice! Best post I've seen here in a long, long time. To me, Prince's genius isn't so much in "groundbreaking" any sort of musical forms or lyrical methods. It was a combination of pop sensibility, skill at many instruments, blending of art forms, and PRIMARILY his uncanny ability to use the studio as another instrument. Nobody except for The Beatles were as good as Prince at using the studio to truly shape their art. Nobody. And I mean Prince in his prime, not his plastic Emancipation - Rave Kirky J. phase. The man knew how to meld sound to really create the particular canvas he sought. Check out Computer Blue or Darling Nikki. It sounds like frustration and madness. Listen to Parade and you can almost hear the presence of the studio...so great. Combined with his live performer skills, that's what makes Prince legendary. Not, IMO, anything to do with his being a trailblazer. "Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry | |
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Byron said: How many fans, honestly, do you think became fans because of how Susan Rogers recorded some of his songs, though...lol...I mean, there have been TONS of examples of "groundbreaking" recording and engineering throughout rock history, and it's not like Prince fans are fans of every record and artist that utilized them...
That's the ONLY reason I became a fan.
Seriosuly, though, the song 7 is an example of Prince being groundbreaking, IMO. Nothing else sounds like that song. Nothing. My wife, who can't really stand Prince, was just commenting on how she thought that song was so fucking fantastic because it's so original. It's grea.t I need gfood! "Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry | |
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KingSausage said: Byron said: Probably THE most often heard (read?..lol) complaint is that "Prince isn't breaking any new ground with (fill in the blank)"...that he's not "pushing the envelope on this CD"...etc, etc.
I personally don't believe that Prince has ever broken new ground, given us something we've never heard before...and has rarely pushed the envelope musically. My own viewpoint has always been that what made 99% of people Prince fans is his ability to concoct ridiculously catchy and infectious melodies that are coupled with insanely dancable beats and a cool and charismatic vocal delivery...as well as showcasing some incredible musicianship. That's one helluva combination, and one helluva rare one in pop music...so rare that my view has always been that's a huge reason why he remains so irreplacable in many fans' minds and hearts. But none of that is about "breaking new ground" or "pushing the envelope" musically. That he seemlessly adds hints of several genres to the mix was the icing, as well as the sign of genius. That he was able to do it so consistently year after year, album after album, was the icing, as well as the sign of genius. Anyone can (theoretically) do it once...to do it seven times in a row is a sign of something else. But again...qualities of groundbreaking and envelope-pushing, at least in my mind, really didn't play too much of a role as to why the majority of Prince fans became Prince fans to begin with. My theory is that Prince's "sound" was somewhat new to the pop music scene when he first arrived...and definitely was new to individual listeners. I was in college in Indiana when Prince first hit it big...a lot of people hearing his music in Indiana may have felt it was groundbreaking and innovative, but at the same time a lot of people in Indiana didn't know Prince from Freddy Prinze (literally, I mean that), and thought my Walkman was a hearing aid at the time (again, literally)...lol...so, no offense to Indiana, but just because it was considered "groundbreaking and innovative" to their ears didn't really mean much. Maybe a lot of Prince fans are similar...that just because his music seemed "different" to their indivudial ears, doesn't mean it was groundbreaking and envelope-pushing...it may just mean that not too many pop music lovers were exposed to a lot of various musical types and genres. So I was thinking...what are the best examples of Prince being truly "groundbreaking", "innovative" and "pushing the envelope"??... Just so you know where I stand, I don't consider leaving the bass line out of "When Doves Cry" to be groundbreaking or innovative...I also don't consider using a synth where you would normally hear real horns to be innovative, either. In my mind, Prince brought the use of a synthesizer in pop music to new heights through his amazing musicianship. In other words, his use of the synth was lightyears better than the stuff you'd hear on an Asia or Loverboy album at the time...lol...but was it anymore groundbreaking? Not really, no. Just much, MUCH better performed and played. His use of a drum machine probably falls closer to groundbreaking in my eyes (or maybe I mean "innovative" moreso than groundbreaking)... Anyhoo.. Give examples of truly groundbreaking, unique, pushing-the-envelope songs in Prince's career...I guess I just want to get an idea of what fans mean when they use these terms to explain why they became fans. Nice! Best post I've seen here in a long, long time. To me, Prince's genius isn't so much in "groundbreaking" any sort of musical forms or lyrical methods. It was a combination of pop sensibility, skill at many instruments, blending of art forms, and PRIMARILY his uncanny ability to use the studio as another instrument. Nobody except for The Beatles were as good as Prince at using the studio to truly shape their art. Nobody. And I mean Prince in his prime, not his plastic Emancipation - Rave Kirky J. phase. The man knew how to meld sound to really create the particular canvas he sought. Check out Computer Blue or Darling Nikki. It sounds like frustration and madness. Listen to Parade and you can almost hear the presence of the studio...so great. Combined with his live performer skills, that's what makes Prince legendary. Not, IMO, anything to do with his being a trailblazer. I hadn't considered how he used the studio as almost another "instrument"...  ...that element has definitely been missing over the past 10+ years for the most part. (although I think TRC used the studio to perfection, now that I think about it...) | |
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KingSausage said: Byron said: How many fans, honestly, do you think became fans because of how Susan Rogers recorded some of his songs, though...lol...I mean, there have been TONS of examples of "groundbreaking" recording and engineering throughout rock history, and it's not like Prince fans are fans of every record and artist that utilized them...
That's the ONLY reason I became a fan.
Seriosuly, though, the song 7 is an example of Prince being groundbreaking, IMO. Nothing else sounds like that song. Nothing. My wife, who can't really stand Prince, was just commenting on how she thought that song was so fucking fantastic because it's so original. It's grea.t I need gfood!
Like I said, I know there are examples of Prince being "groundbreaking" (although I'm not conviced "7" is one of them, no offense to Amber..heh...and I fucking LOVE "7", always have)...My original thought, though, was that the lack of "groundbreaking songs" being a reason why some fans say Prince has long ago 'lost it' is intellectually dishonest. And for the record, I'd consider "When I Lay My Hands On U" to be rather groundbreaking in its own way...or at the very least innovative and unique. | |
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Byron said: KingSausage said: Nice! Best post I've seen here in a long, long time. To me, Prince's genius isn't so much in "groundbreaking" any sort of musical forms or lyrical methods. It was a combination of pop sensibility, skill at many instruments, blending of art forms, and PRIMARILY his uncanny ability to use the studio as another instrument. Nobody except for The Beatles were as good as Prince at using the studio to truly shape their art. Nobody. And I mean Prince in his prime, not his plastic Emancipation - Rave Kirky J. phase. The man knew how to meld sound to really create the particular canvas he sought. Check out Computer Blue or Darling Nikki. It sounds like frustration and madness. Listen to Parade and you can almost hear the presence of the studio...so great. Combined with his live performer skills, that's what makes Prince legendary. Not, IMO, anything to do with his being a trailblazer. I hadn't considered how he used the studio as almost another "instrument"... ...that element has definitely been missing over the past 10+ years for the most part. (although I think TRC used the studio to perfection, now that I think about it...)That's why I love TRC so much. The lyrics are nutty. The songs are sometimes over-indulgent. But only someone who has complete mastery of the studio can craft a true ALBUM like that. Not just a collection of songs, but a whole musical tapestry designed and shaped by the studio for presentation on the medium of the album. A rarity these days! "Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry | |
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Byron said: KingSausage said: That's the ONLY reason I became a fan.
Seriosuly, though, the song 7 is an example of Prince being groundbreaking, IMO. Nothing else sounds like that song. Nothing. My wife, who can't really stand Prince, was just commenting on how she thought that song was so fucking fantastic because it's so original. It's grea.t I need gfood!
Like I said, I know there are examples of Prince being "groundbreaking" (although I'm not conviced "7" is one of them, no offense to Amber..heh...and I fucking LOVE "7", always have)...My original thought, though, was that the lack of "groundbreaking songs" being a reason why some fans say Prince has long ago 'lost it' is intellectually dishonest. And for the record, I'd consider "When I Lay My Hands On U" to be rather groundbreaking in its own way...or at the very least innovative and unique. You know what's groundbreak? All My Dreams. "Drop that stereo before I blow your Goddamn nuts off, asshole!"
-Eugene Tackleberry | |
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KingSausage said: Byron said:
Like I said, I know there are examples of Prince being "groundbreaking" (although I'm not conviced "7" is one of them, no offense to Amber..heh...and I fucking LOVE "7", always have)...My original thought, though, was that the lack of "groundbreaking songs" being a reason why some fans say Prince has long ago 'lost it' is intellectually dishonest. And for the record, I'd consider "When I Lay My Hands On U" to be rather groundbreaking in its own way...or at the very least innovative and unique. You know what's groundbreak? All My Dreams.  | |
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Byron said: Just so you know where I stand, I don't consider leaving the bass line out of "When Doves Cry" to be groundbreaking or innovative...I also don't consider using a synth where you would normally hear real horns to be innovative, either. In my mind, Prince brought the use of a synthesizer in pop music to new heights through his amazing musicianship. In other words, his use of the synth was lightyears better than the stuff you'd hear on an Asia or Loverboy album at the time...lol...but was it anymore groundbreaking? Not really, no. Just much, MUCH better performed and played. His use of a drum machine probably falls closer to groundbreaking in my eyes (or maybe I mean "innovative" moreso than groundbreaking)...
I think Prince did a lot of technical things that were indeed groundbreaking. The actual instruments and arrangements he used weren't groundbreaking per se, but it was the way he used them that was. Running the drum machine through guitar processor for flanger effects on hi-hats etc created some very inventive sounds. For example: take the Linn Drum pattern of 777-9311... the hi-hats were played live while the rest was programmed. That was one of the most innovative drum patterns ever created... right up there with Sly's "In Time" Not only did he do this with the Linn, he was also very fruitful with the Fairlight as well. [Edited 3/18/06 19:48pm] | |
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While arguably derivitive (more of himself than others) his best stuff is still uniquely his own. NOBODY can mix genre's the way he does and pull it off in the studio and on stage. That in itself is groundbreaking.
Keep in mind that at this stage in his career, if Prince tried to truly break ground he would sell records to only the fanatics. Prince seems to be in the process of re-establishing himself as a commercial artist to stroke his ego and bank account. Once he can afford to take some risks again (ATWIAD) I am sure he will. In the meantime I will joyfully spin 3121 for the 30th time and marvel at his brilliance. | |
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2funkE said: While arguably derivitive (more of himself than others) his best stuff is still uniquely his own. NOBODY can mix genre's the way he does and pull it off in the studio and on stage. That in itself is groundbreaking.
But mixing genres is not groundbreaking, though...Prince may do it a thousand times better and more seemlessly than most, but it's not like he was the first one to attempt to do so. I guess that's my definition of "groundbreaking": doing something nobody else has done...not simply doing it better. | |
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BSK3601 said: Byron said: Just so you know where I stand, I don't consider leaving the bass line out of "When Doves Cry" to be groundbreaking or innovative...I also don't consider using a synth where you would normally hear real horns to be innovative, either. In my mind, Prince brought the use of a synthesizer in pop music to new heights through his amazing musicianship. In other words, his use of the synth was lightyears better than the stuff you'd hear on an Asia or Loverboy album at the time...lol...but was it anymore groundbreaking? Not really, no. Just much, MUCH better performed and played. His use of a drum machine probably falls closer to groundbreaking in my eyes (or maybe I mean "innovative" moreso than groundbreaking)...
I think Prince did a lot of technical things that were indeed groundbreaking. The actual instruments and arrangements he used weren't groundbreaking per se, but it was the way he used them that was. Running the drum machine through guitar processor for flanger effects on hi-hats etc created some very inventive sounds. For example: take the Linn Drum pattern of 777-9311... the hi-hats were played live while the rest was programmed. That was one of the most innovative drum patterns ever created... right up there with Sly's "In Time" Not only did he do this with the Linn, he was also very fruitful with the Fairlight as well. [Edited 3/18/06 19:48pm] I think I can honestly say (and have twice now just on this thread alone..lol) that Prince's use of drum machine and beats was unlike ANYthing I'd ever heard in the pop music world... | |
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KingSausage said: Byron said: I hadn't considered how he used the studio as almost another "instrument"... ...that element has definitely been missing over the past 10+ years for the most part. (although I think TRC used the studio to perfection, now that I think about it...)That's why I love TRC so much. The lyrics are nutty. The songs are sometimes over-indulgent. But only someone who has complete mastery of the studio can craft a true ALBUM like that. Not just a collection of songs, but a whole musical tapestry designed and shaped by the studio for presentation on the medium of the album. A rarity these days! Couldn't have said it better...  | |
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Byron said: I guess that's my definition of "groundbreaking": doing something nobody else has done....
If you cannot apply the "ground-breaking" -word to Prince you cannot apply to any other musician who works in the field of popular music production. Give examples of truly groundbreaking, unique, pushing-the-envelope songs in Prince's career...
Dirty Mind Head Private Joy All The Critics Love U In New York The Beautiful Ones Computer Blue Darling Nikki When Doves Cry Erotic City Condition Of The Heart Tamborine Sexual Suicide Life Can B So Nice Sometimes It Snows In April All My Dreams Splash Teacher Teacher Sign "O" The Times The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker Forver In MY Life If I Was Your Girlfriend The Ball Eye No Positivity The Voice Inside Mindbells The Continental 7 She Spoke 2 Me Pussy Control Days Of Wild Shy In This Bed I Scream Joint 2 Joint The Rainbow Children ... just off the top of my head. Don't exaggerate the criteria for music to be called "groundbreaking", "experimental" or whatever. Otherwised you'll just end up applying the same "It really is not, if you look it from this direction"-viewpoint and has to dismiss everything as derivative and lacking with "proper" originality. | |
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Novabreaker said: Dirty Mind Head Private Joy All The Critics Love U In New York The Beautiful Ones Erotic City Condition Of The Heart Sexual Suicide Sometimes It Snows In April All My Dreams Splash Teacher Teacher Sign "O" The Times The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker Forver In MY Life If I Was Your Girlfriend The Ball Eye No Positivity The Voice Inside Mindbells The Continental She Spoke 2 Me Pussy Control Days Of Wild Shy In This Bed I Scream Joint 2 Joint The Rainbow Children What the hell is groundbreaking about these songs?? (I took out the ones that I could guess why you'd think they were...not that I agree that they are, just that I can already imagine what someone would respond with). "The Continental" is groundbreaking???...lol..."Forever In My Life"??..."Sometimes It Snows In April"??!!..."Pussy freakin' Control"!!! [Edited 3/18/06 21:58pm] | |
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Byron said: "The Continental" is groundbreaking???...lol..."Forever In My Life"??..."Sometimes It Snows In April"??!!..."Pussy freakin' Control"!!! [Edited 3/18/06 21:58pm]  I definitely don't get that one either along with the majority of that list. | |
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"What the hell is groundbreaking about these songs?? (I took out the ones that I could guess why you'd think they were...not that I agree that they are, just that I can already imagine what someone would respond with)."
Here is why these songs are groundbreaking: The range of styles that come from one artist. Name one other pop musician of Prince's fame that has a catalog of songs as diverse as Prince. Just look at this quick sampling offered up-you will be hard pressed to find a pop star as famous as Prince who can match his diversity. Stevie? Maybe. The Beatles? Nope. James? Nope. Sly? Nope. Jimi? Nope. MJ ? Nope. Bowie? Maybe. No one else in pop music has done something like "Sometimes it Snows in April" AND something like "Pussy Control". Imagine, Snoop doing an acoustic set. Imagine Joni doin' a song like "Pussy Control" it ain't happenin'. That is why Prince is groundbreaking. Again, each song on it's own is not VASTLY groundbreaking (although one could easily argue that Prince's studio techniques are/were groundbreaking- we already have quotes from engineers saying so). Look at these songs and consider the fact they all came from the same guy. Again- that is groundbreaking, unique, etc. Dirty Mind Head Private Joy All The Critics Love U In New York The Beautiful Ones Computer Blue Darling Nikki When Doves Cry Erotic City Condition Of The Heart Tamborine Sexual Suicide Life Can B So Nice Sometimes It Snows In April All My Dreams Splash Teacher Teacher Sign "O" The Times The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker Forver In MY Life If I Was Your Girlfriend The Ball Eye No Positivity The Voice Inside Mindbells The Continental 7 She Spoke 2 Me Pussy Control Days Of Wild Shy In This Bed I Scream Joint 2 Joint The Rainbow Children Plus, you have to consider Prince IS the MPLS sound. That MPLS sound is still being copied today on the radio, MTV,etc and is directly responsible for Jam and Lewis--who's influence on pop music is, without question, enormous. [Edited 3/18/06 23:35pm] "New Power slide...." |
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Byron-
I agree with you that some overembellish Prince's past. However, I don't think that you have a strong argument by saying "Prince is not groundbreaking". The civilized world has already come to the conclusion that he is EXTREMELY groundbreaking in almost every aspect of music making/music business. I think that you would have a stronger argument against the over embellishment of Prince's past by arguing how groundbreaking Prince actually still is. Everytime he drops a new record it is one of the most diverse sounding pop records on the market. Again, almost no one of his magnitude can match his range stylistically. Also, most pop artists have not single handedly started music movements and put cities on the the map (musically) like Prince did with MPLS. Hell, Prince was/is influencial, not only on how the 80's sounded, but on what some kids in music are trying to do today-just ask Andre 3000 etc. "New Power slide...." |
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skywalker said: Byron-
I agree with you that some overembellish Prince's past. However, I don't think that you have a strong argument by saying "Prince is not groundbreaking". The civilized world has already come to the conclusion that he is EXTREMELY groundbreaking in almost every aspect of music making/music business. I think that you would have a stronger argument against the over embellishment of Prince's past by arguing how groundbreaking Prince actually still is. Everytime he drops a new record it is one of the most diverse sounding pop records on the market. Again, almost no one of his magnitude can match his range stylistically. Also, most pop artists have not single handedly started music movements and put cities on the the map (musically) like Prince did with MPLS. Hell, Prince was/is influencial, not only on how the 80's sounded, but on what some kids in music are trying to do today-just ask Andre 3000 etc. Again, I think you're confusing talent with groundbreaking...a diverse mixture of musical styles on one album is not groundbreaking, no matter how well it's executed. It just isn't. | |
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BSK3601 said: Byron said: "The Continental" is groundbreaking???...lol..."Forever In My Life"??..."Sometimes It Snows In April"??!!..."Pussy freakin' Control"!!! [Edited 3/18/06 21:58pm] I definitely don't get that one either along with the majority of that list.lol...I know... "Sometimes It Snows In April" is not groundbreaking by any definition...beautiful? Yes. Groundbreaking? Um, hardly. | |
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BSK3601 said: sacredwarrior said: i havent heard 3121 yet
but from the wide variety of fan comments and reviews i've read it seems to me he's tried to copy artists he's heard on the www Remember he stole "Some of the Best Things Emanate From Sound..." from you too during for the Musicology cd liners too. no that was Sam u do take the bait so nicely " the embassy shut to keep the fools out " - as above, so below. | |
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Byron said: "The Continental" is groundbreaking???...lol... Still to this day I haven't heard another song with a melodic structure quite like "The Continental". It's truly a unique composition, even though you wouldn't realize it on the first listening. Plus the sample that he also recycled for "Race" is so otherworldy weird and displaced in a song like this that it alone should be noteworthy. "Forever In My Life"??...
And how many songs have you heard where a totally misplaced backing vocal line has been left in the mix? That is one form of innovation, like it or not. "Sometimes It Snows In April"??!!...
Prince's use of "wrong chords" in this song is quie unique. The way he handles chromatic voicings is very daring and sophisticated in a way I haven't heard any other artist accomplish. "Pussy freakin' Control"!!!
Very unique soundscapes. Prince's use of intentionally clumsy synthesized elements juxtaposed with the song's references to 90s hip-hop are very witty. And how many songs with the same type of chorus that consists of basically just screaming have you heard, now really? Or, alternatively, I can recommend you several Power Electronics and Japanese Noise artists if that is not enough daring for you. | |
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This thread is sooooo f*cking great. Keep it coming!
For the record, I'm with those who tend to NOT see him as really groundbreaking. At least not indivual styles or songs (with some exceptions maybe). I would say however, his work as a whole might be groundbreaking/innovative, because I don't think that anyone has ever been so complete a musician/dancer/entertainer. More than before this might have inspired others to go for this versatility as well. But then again there is no one quite like him around, so I guess maybe in the end it comes down to him being unique, rather than groundbreaking. Or I don't know enough about music anyway to make a qualified statement on this. | |
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calldapplwondery83 said: in the end it comes down to him being unique, rather than groundbreaking.
And how do you exactly distinct between expressions such as "unique", "innovative" and "groundbreaking" when disussing a pop musician like Prince? If you want groundbreaking pop music then I guess Kraftwerk, Brian Eno, Jimi Hendrix, Coil, Einstürzende Neubauten were groundbreaking in introducing some new approaches to the usage of instruments, but Prince was always so sprawling with his songwriting that even if he came up with something he could had developed further on he was already at the task of writing something completely else. Marvin Gaye's "What's Goin' On" was a groundbreaking pop record too, but there's really nothing there that would sound innovative to today's listener's ears if you want to be anal about it. I am personally not too shy to describe people's work in superlatives when I feel they have earnt it. And as a person who hasn't really bought a single record with sung melodies or distinctive song structures in years it's truly wonderful for myself to go back to the music I used to listen to as younger and realize what proper innovation can also stand for. Maybe just one unexpected chord. | |
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Novabreaker said: calldapplwondery83 said: in the end it comes down to him being unique, rather than groundbreaking.
And how do you exactly distinct between expressions such as "unique", "innovative" and "groundbreaking" when disussing a pop musician like Prince? You're right of course. I cannot really draw an exact line there (I guess on one really can). I guess "unique" just explains Prince as a whole for me better than "groundbreaking". Propably because he also always heavily relied on "old school music". But the question was wether Prince did something groundbreaking/innovative. Well, I just don't know really. Personally, I haven't heard anything quite like 'When Doves Cry' anywhere else. [Edited 3/19/06 6:16am] | |
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i think Pussy Control is innovative...he did something in a new style. he used rap to talk about a woman. right? usually rap in that era had a lot of derogatory images of women. right? but what did Prince do? he rapped about a woman in control of her situation. and of course, just to go to that extra mile, he named it Pussy Control. he could have named it Girl Power or I am woman hear me roar or whatever.
to me, that's why i think Pussy Control is innovative. | |
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