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Camille and 3121 Haven't heard the album yet (apart from the singles and Lolita which is excellent) - but I'm intreagued by things I've heard about the Camille voice returning in the 3121 title track.
My question is: is it the classic Camille voice of old (think Good Love, Shockadelica) or something different? | |
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for all intents and purposes,yes the same Camille.
A tad grittier perhaps but still serves the same purpose as the 1987 Camille. | |
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Yep the same effect whereby Prince records the vocal on a backing track played back slower than usual which, when all mixed tracks are played back normally sounds like Camille.
On this song there is also the added effect of Prince's regular voice through an "auto-wah" (ie. an automatic wah-wah pedal). . [Edited 3/11/06 6:19am] | |
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nope, sorry. wouldn't class it as the camille voice at all. for at least three good reasons:
1 camille always sings lead. whereas on '3121' the speeded-up voice is used as a co-lead at best. 2 'camille songs' are usually (not always but predominantly) characterised by a certain kinkiness, perversity and sexual ambiguity (even androgyny, as in 'if i was your girlfriend'). they're usually about the tangled complexities of being a sexual human being. think 'if i was your girlfriend', 'strange relationship', 'rockhard in a funky place'. 'feel u up' and 'scarlet pussy' also fall into this category, albeit at a much more simplistic and cruder level. the obvious exception is 'housequake' - this is a party/groove/funky manifesto song, and is thus the camille song which is closest to '3121' (also a 'manifesto' groove). however, the music behind 'housequake' has that same skittery off-the-wall camilleness to complement the vocal, whereas '3121' is more straightforwardly art-funking around. the music behind '3121' is good, don't get me wrong; but it lacks that high-strung neurosis that typifies a genuine camille song. 3 the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't sound like camille! it sounds like the effect was achieved in a different way and/or prince wasn't singing 'as' camille when he recorded his take. so to sum up, to my ears the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't bring out the same emotional response in the listener as the camille voice. to me, it sounds more like the tweaked vocal that is used to decorate 'erotic city' and '1+1+1=3'. i.e. it is a cartoonishly funky ornament around the main vocal. i'd like to add that even if the liner notes on the released cd turn out to credit camille, i will take issue! good as '3121' is, it's NOT a camille song and that is NOT camille's voice either in tone or emotion! i hope prince doesn't consider this a camille appearance - if he does, i suspect he is just trying to drum up intrigue with the hardcore old school fans. if he does credit camille on the cd, i will simply take it as prince faking it.'3121' is just fine as it is without having to masquerade as a camille cameo... anyway, just my opinion as per usual! [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:30am] | |
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The only difference in this new Camille vocal is that the voice track was not created by slowing down a tape,Prince is recording digitally these days and is using a pitch-shifter to acheive the Camille effect. | |
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boyubad said: The only difference in this new Camille vocal is that the voice track was not created by slowing down a tape,Prince is recording digitally these days and is using a pitch-shifter to acheive the Camille effect.
that's not the only difference, as i have mentioned above. but it does in part account for the non-camilleness of the voice in '3121'. to me, camille was a fascinating, sexually neurotic character whose every phrase contained a handful of spine-tingling nuances, sonic nudges and winks. the vocal effect on '3121' is just that - a vocal effect. | |
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tiger2 said: nope, sorry. wouldn't class it as the camille voice at all. for at least three good reasons:
1 camille always sings lead. whereas on '3121' the speeded-up voice is used as a co-lead at best. 2 'camille songs' are usually (not always but predominantly) characterised by a certain kinkiness, perversity and sexual ambiguity (even androgyny, as in 'if i was your girlfriend'). they're usually about the tangled complexities of being a sexual human being. think 'if i was your girlfriend', 'strange relationship', 'rockhard in a funky place'. 'feel u up' and 'scarlet pussy' also fall into this category, albeit at a much more simplistic and cruder level. the obvious exception is 'housequake' - this is a party/groove/funky manifesto song, and is thus the camille song which is closest to '3121' (also a 'manifesto' groove). however, the music behind 'housequake' has that same skittery off-the-wall camilleness to complement the vocal, whereas '3121' is more straightforwardly art-funking around. the music behind '3121' is good, don't get me wrong; but it lacks that high-strung neurosis that typifies a genuine camille song. 3 the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't sound like camille! it sounds like the effect was achieved in a different way and/or prince wasn't singing 'as' camille when he recorded his take. so to sum up, to my ears the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't bring out the same emotional response in the listener as the camille voice. to me, it sounds more like the tweaked vocal that is used to decorate 'erotic city' and '1+1+1=3'. i.e. it is a cartoonishly funky ornament around the main vocal. i'd like to add that even if the liner notes on the released cd turn out to credit camille, i will take issue! good as '3121' is, it's NOT a camille song and that is NOT camille's voice either in tone or emotion! i hope prince doesn't consider this a camille appearance - if he does, i suspect he is just trying to drum up intrigue with the hardcore old school fans. if he does credit camille on the cd, i will simply take it as prince faking it.'3121' is just fine as it is without having to masquerade as a camille cameo... anyway, just my opinion as per usual! [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:30am] Some very good points... I think it´s more like that voice on the Come On remix, not really Camille...but obviously the socalled "Camille" voice seems to freak fans out in a positive way.IMO, it doesn´t necessarily make any song automatically better, I remember back in 98 people were raving about NPS as "the return of Camille "blablabla. The song 3121 is very cool though. " I´d rather be a stank ass hoe because I´m not stupid. Oh my goodness! I got more drugs! I´m always funny dude...I´m hilarious! Are we gonna smoke?" | |
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KoolEaze said:[quote] tiger2 said: Some very good points... I think it´s more like that voice on the Come On remix, not really Camille...but obviously the socalled "Camille" voice seems to freak fans out in a positive way.IMO, it doesn´t necessarily make any song automatically better, I remember back in 98 people were raving about NPS as "the return of Camille "blablabla. agreed. the mere presence of camille's voice doesn't make any song automatically better. but this ties in with my larger point - a genuine camille song isn't just about that voice. it's about the whole tone of the music and the voice and the subject matter and... well, i'm going round in circles but i don't think there'll ever be another genuine camille song again, and i wouldn't like to see prince try it - it captures a certain kink in his armour at a certain time in his life and i think he'd be faking it if he were to try to write a camille song these days. NPS certainly doesn't qualify as 'the return of camille'! i really think some people equate ANY sped-up vocal effect with camille - but camille's a lot more complex than that! | |
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tiger2 said: nope, sorry. wouldn't class it as the camille voice at all. for at least three good reasons:
1 camille always sings lead. whereas on '3121' the speeded-up voice is used as a co-lead at best. 2 'camille songs' are usually (not always but predominantly) characterised by a certain kinkiness, perversity and sexual ambiguity (even androgyny, as in 'if i was your girlfriend'). they're usually about the tangled complexities of being a sexual human being. think 'if i was your girlfriend', 'strange relationship', 'rockhard in a funky place'. 'feel u up' and 'scarlet pussy' also fall into this category, albeit at a much more simplistic and cruder level. the obvious exception is 'housequake' - this is a party/groove/funky manifesto song, and is thus the camille song which is closest to '3121' (also a 'manifesto' groove). however, the music behind 'housequake' has that same skittery off-the-wall camilleness to complement the vocal, whereas '3121' is more straightforwardly art-funking around. the music behind '3121' is good, don't get me wrong; but it lacks that high-strung neurosis that typifies a genuine camille song. 3 the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't sound like camille! it sounds like the effect was achieved in a different way and/or prince wasn't singing 'as' camille when he recorded his take. so to sum up, to my ears the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't bring out the same emotional response in the listener as the camille voice. to me, it sounds more like the tweaked vocal that is used to decorate 'erotic city' and '1+1+1=3'. i.e. it is a cartoonishly funky ornament around the main vocal. i'd like to add that even if the liner notes on the released cd turn out to credit camille, i will take issue! good as '3121' is, it's NOT a camille song and that is NOT camille's voice either in tone or emotion! i hope prince doesn't consider this a camille appearance - if he does, i suspect he is just trying to drum up intrigue with the hardcore old school fans. if he does credit camille on the cd, i will simply take it as prince faking it.'3121' is just fine as it is without having to masquerade as a camille cameo... anyway, just my opinion as per usual! [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:30am] my God we are pedantic! Camille was also the very low voice as on Bob George. eg, on that song on Lovesexy Live he clearly says "this is Camille"... so to my mind there is way too much pedantry and looking for deep meaning that just isn't there in Prince's music in this place! Camille is just whenever he has raised or lowered the pitch, particularly around the SOTT era and with the big exception of The Rainbow Children which was a different thing altogether... but really I think we all know that "Camille" was mostly if not totally a SOTT-era phenomenon. i think that's what you are saying anyway. This 3121 thing is just an effect. . [Edited 3/11/06 6:52am] | |
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one last point. the vocal on '3121' is NOTICEABLY sped up. camille was always riding the border between the natural and the effected. so that when you listened to camille, it was ever so slightly disturbing (as kooleaze said, in a positive way!) - the casual listener wouldn't necessarily know the voice had been sped up at all. instead they would likely think they were listening to a very peculiar individual.
which, as we're talking about prince, they were.  | |
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edit [Edited 3/11/06 6:59am] | |
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my God we are pedantic! no, we are not pedantic. we are interested in answering the poster's question in a detailed and thoughtful way. Camille was also the very low voice as on Bob George. eg, on that song on Lovesexy Live he clearly says "this is Camille"... very interesting point, i'd forgotten about this. i actually don't think that the slowed-down voice is camille but there is definitely some grey area and playfulness going on here. it's interesting that prince felt the link between camille and bob george - that confusion. good/evil, light/dark, sex/violence, etc. hmm. Camille is just whenever he has raised or lowered the pitch, particularly around the SOTT era and with the big exception of The Rainbow Children which was a different thing altogether... see, you say it's just whenever there's a pitch change - but then you say it's NOT camille on the rainbow children. (which is true - it's not!) so you obviously have your own criteria for what defines camille's character. you believe (rightfully, i think) that camille is not narrating 'the rainbow children' because that is not a part of camille's character. my point is that we all have our own criteria for who camille is and what camille represents. i've outlined my criteria in my earlier post. thank you for your equally non-pedantic thoughts on the subject. i find it genuinely interesting. but really I think we all know that "Camille" was mostly if not totally a SOTT-era phenomenon. i think that's what you are saying anyway. This 3121 thing is just an effect. couldn't agree more. well said. . [Edited 3/11/06 6:52am] [Edited 3/11/06 7:06am] [Edited 3/11/06 7:07am] [Edited 3/11/06 7:07am] [Edited 3/11/06 7:08am] [Edited 3/11/06 7:09am] | |
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People originally thought the Camille voice was achieved by Prince inhaling helium in the studio. That was the wide perception in the reviews and the articles back in the day. But wouldn't that have been so much cooler than just speeding-up the tape? | |
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JPW said: tiger2 said: nope, sorry. wouldn't class it as the camille voice at all. for at least three good reasons:
1 camille always sings lead. whereas on '3121' the speeded-up voice is used as a co-lead at best. 2 'camille songs' are usually (not always but predominantly) characterised by a certain kinkiness, perversity and sexual ambiguity (even androgyny, as in 'if i was your girlfriend'). they're usually about the tangled complexities of being a sexual human being. think 'if i was your girlfriend', 'strange relationship', 'rockhard in a funky place'. 'feel u up' and 'scarlet pussy' also fall into this category, albeit at a much more simplistic and cruder level. the obvious exception is 'housequake' - this is a party/groove/funky manifesto song, and is thus the camille song which is closest to '3121' (also a 'manifesto' groove). however, the music behind 'housequake' has that same skittery off-the-wall camilleness to complement the vocal, whereas '3121' is more straightforwardly art-funking around. the music behind '3121' is good, don't get me wrong; but it lacks that high-strung neurosis that typifies a genuine camille song. 3 the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't sound like camille! it sounds like the effect was achieved in a different way and/or prince wasn't singing 'as' camille when he recorded his take. so to sum up, to my ears the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't bring out the same emotional response in the listener as the camille voice. to me, it sounds more like the tweaked vocal that is used to decorate 'erotic city' and '1+1+1=3'. i.e. it is a cartoonishly funky ornament around the main vocal. i'd like to add that even if the liner notes on the released cd turn out to credit camille, i will take issue! good as '3121' is, it's NOT a camille song and that is NOT camille's voice either in tone or emotion! i hope prince doesn't consider this a camille appearance - if he does, i suspect he is just trying to drum up intrigue with the hardcore old school fans. if he does credit camille on the cd, i will simply take it as prince faking it.'3121' is just fine as it is without having to masquerade as a camille cameo... anyway, just my opinion as per usual! [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:30am] my God we are pedantic! Camille was also the very low voice as on Bob George. eg, on that song on Lovesexy Live he clearly says "this is Camille"... so to my mind there is way too much pedantry and looking for deep meaning that just isn't there in Prince's music in this place! Camille is just whenever he has raised or lowered the pitch, particularly around the SOTT era and with the big exception of The Rainbow Children which was a different thing altogether... but really I think we all know that "Camille" was mostly if not totally a SOTT-era phenomenon. i think that's what you are saying anyway. This 3121 thing is just an effect. . [Edited 3/11/06 6:52am] the voice on "3121" much more resembles the voice on "Crystall Ball" "Dream Factory" & "Good Love" It certainly is not the camille voice and I seriously doubt its that persona as well. In fact just like what was said earlier the voices are layered. There is the speeded up voice we will call it the "dream factory" voice or DF and then there is Prince's regular voice, and Prince's voice lowered. With the DF voice in the forefront. I think people get way to into why Prince came up with the personality/persona without remembering or even being ignorant pf some of the musicians he admired and even hung out with. He wanted to answer for the style and kinds of music George Clinton, Bootsy, Parliment Funkdelic did. Camille and the other voices were nothing more than Prince's version of Parliments "Sir Nose"...devoid of funk and others that Clinton and those cats created. Prince came up with his own. Prince has even talked about it. It is no coincindence that the first time we here the camille voice is on "Erotic City" During Clintons induction into the rock & roll hall of fame...Prince talked about Seeing Clinton in concert at the Hollywood bowl in LA back in 1984. He said it was so funky that he went home and Erotic City was born out of that. I think Prince also is fibbing a little when talking about how the camille voice came to be. It like was very intentional..based on his quotes regarding the recording of Erotic City [Edited 3/11/06 7:18am] [Edited 3/11/06 7:21am] Dance... Let me see you dance | |
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Im not jumping on the "Camille" bandwagon.
I dont think it sounds like, or it was his intention for it to do so. Im not too sure what i think about all the voice distortions on the album either. Fuck the funk - it's time to ditch the worn-out Vegas horns fills, pick up the geee-tar and finally ROCK THE MUTHA-FUCKER!! He hinted at this on Chaos, now it's time to step up and fully DELIVER!!
KrystleEyes 22/03/05 | |
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A high-pitched vocal does not = Camille. | |
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tiger2 said: nope, sorry. wouldn't class it as the camille voice at all. for at least three good reasons:
1 camille always sings lead. whereas on '3121' the speeded-up voice is used as a co-lead at best. 2 'camille songs' are usually (not always but predominantly) characterised by a certain kinkiness, perversity and sexual ambiguity (even androgyny, as in 'if i was your girlfriend'). they're usually about the tangled complexities of being a sexual human being. think 'if i was your girlfriend', 'strange relationship', 'rockhard in a funky place'. 'feel u up' and 'scarlet pussy' also fall into this category, albeit at a much more simplistic and cruder level. the obvious exception is 'housequake' - this is a party/groove/funky manifesto song, and is thus the camille song which is closest to '3121' (also a 'manifesto' groove). however, the music behind 'housequake' has that same skittery off-the-wall camilleness to complement the vocal, whereas '3121' is more straightforwardly art-funking around. the music behind '3121' is good, don't get me wrong; but it lacks that high-strung neurosis that typifies a genuine camille song. 3 the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't sound like camille! it sounds like the effect was achieved in a different way and/or prince wasn't singing 'as' camille when he recorded his take. so to sum up, to my ears the speeded-up voice on '3121' doesn't bring out the same emotional response in the listener as the camille voice. to me, it sounds more like the tweaked vocal that is used to decorate 'erotic city' and '1+1+1=3'. i.e. it is a cartoonishly funky ornament around the main vocal. i'd like to add that even if the liner notes on the released cd turn out to credit camille, i will take issue! good as '3121' is, it's NOT a camille song and that is NOT camille's voice either in tone or emotion! i hope prince doesn't consider this a camille appearance - if he does, i suspect he is just trying to drum up intrigue with the hardcore old school fans. if he does credit camille on the cd, i will simply take it as prince faking it.'3121' is just fine as it is without having to masquerade as a camille cameo... anyway, just my opinion as per usual! [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:28am] [Edited 3/11/06 6:30am] 3121 is more of a Camille track than say 'Come On', 2 me that song didnt qualify enough 2 have the Camille like vocal affect. 3121 has that Rockhard feel 2 it tho. Wether its Camille or not, its all Prince. | |
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Appreciate all the replies. Didn't realise the passion a Camille question would stir up!
Come on 3121! | |
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Alexandernvrmind said: JPW said: my God we are pedantic! Camille was also the very low voice as on Bob George. eg, on that song on Lovesexy Live he clearly says "this is Camille"... so to my mind there is way too much pedantry and looking for deep meaning that just isn't there in Prince's music in this place! Camille is just whenever he has raised or lowered the pitch, particularly around the SOTT era and with the big exception of The Rainbow Children which was a different thing altogether... but really I think we all know that "Camille" was mostly if not totally a SOTT-era phenomenon. i think that's what you are saying anyway. This 3121 thing is just an effect. . [Edited 3/11/06 6:52am] the voice on "3121" much more resembles the voice on "Crystall Ball" "Dream Factory" & "Good Love" [Edited 3/11/06 7:18am] [Edited 3/11/06 7:21am] Haha, that's funny because those three tracks were all recorded around the same time and Good Love even appeared on the "Camille" album. | |
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only Prince knows the answer to this question.
nary one of us was in the studio when any of these tracks were cut. we have no idea what persona he was using(if any)during the vocal sessions. tis fun to speculate and fantasize though. | |
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NouveauDance said: A high-pitched vocal does not = Camille.
Glad someone said it!  . |
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camille = Gonzo's chicken
Who knew that bird could sing so well? "New Power slide...." | |
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SquirrelMeat said: NouveauDance said: A high-pitched vocal does not = Camille.
Glad someone said it! Indeed... Camille is a unique character/persona. The pitch changed vocal is simply a character feature of that but it doesn't mean that any pitch changed vocal is Camille. Camille HAS a voice but Camille is not THE voice. Dream Factory is obviously not a Camille track any more than Come On. [Edited 3/11/06 18:22pm] | |
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"....Dream Factory is obviously not a Camille track any more than Come On."
Obviously not? How is it obvious? "New Power slide...." | |
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skywalker said: "....Dream Factory is obviously not a Camille track any more than Come On."
Obviously not? How is it obvious? ...because official Camille tracks have been labeled as such by Prince. We didn't have to guess which songs on SOTT were Camille songs, for example. We didn't have to guess about Scarlet Pussy. They were plainly labeled as such. | |
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jtfolden said: skywalker said: "....Dream Factory is obviously not a Camille track any more than Come On."
Obviously not? How is it obvious? ...because official Camille tracks have been labeled as such by Prince. We didn't have to guess which songs on SOTT were Camille songs, for example. We didn't have to guess about Scarlet Pussy. They were plainly labeled as such. I agree. I believe the only definitive way of knowing that a song is from the 'Camille' catalogue is where Prince has decided to declare it as such. Prince clearly decides where the Camille persona is reflected in a tune - and he announces it. Where there is no involvement, there's no credited reference. . . ALT+PLS+RTN: Pure as a pane of ice. It's a gift. |
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