Just wondering what some of your thoughts are on this?

Yeah, he's produced many a great song... but couldn't other producers make his music sound even better?? For example, "Fury" sounds terribly weak. Everything's there, but it comes out sounding shallow. Has Prince gone deaf? Sometimes he makes one particular instrument (synth, sax, vox, etc) or sound (handclap, effect, cowbell, etc) too hot in the mix, drowning out the other good things that are happening -- leaving other sounds too low in the mix. Perhaps his ego gets in the way as well. Any decent producer would've asked Prince to keep singing "Fury" until it resembled something like it did when he performed it on SNL. Did Prince think his guitar playing would cover up for those lazy vocals? Does he get so excited about a good song, that he doesn't think of ways to make it even better? Is it that hard for him to see things objectively. And... you can talk about this if you want to or not, but what has he ever done to help bring out another artist's unique talents without making them sound like him? I don't know, maybe I'm just a bit miffed tonight about hearing some great songs that I believe could've been made even better if someone else had some input on the production. What y'all think?

This is a truly debatable question.

Producer of himself? Producer of others?

We have seen the results of both.

Snap said:

What if that's not the way Prince wanted the song & vocals to come across??...We always assume that we know exactly what Prince was shooting for, and assume he failed at reaching. There's one thing I've come to know about Prince, and it's that he pretty much never accidentally delivers his vocals...no matter how pitch-perfect or weirdly off-key, it's ALWAYS purposeful. We may not be all that crazy about his choice, but it's always his choice...not a mistake.

Snap said:

This is an intresting thought patern.

Are we saying Prince hit the right sound live that he couldn't get in a studio?

Maybe he is starting to understand the meaning to singing to someone vers writing a note on a dead tree.

I disagree completely.

ICNTTPOYM sounds "weak" on the SOTT record, but great live. That's just Prince's power as a live musician. There is nothing wrong with Fury on record. It's one of his best tracks ever. I love the relaxed vocal. Prince doesn't need a producer. He'd be a sellout if he used one. He can do it all.

He's a good producer... but only 'good'.
He hasn't been a great producer for nearly 20 years, since he started to get complacent at the end of the 80's. While his skills and ability as a musician continues to grow he simply hasn't kept up as a producer and his albums have suffered 4 it (i'm meaning all albums from the 90's and up-to and unfortunately including 3121)
His production is too by-the-numbers, and there's nobody pushing him. His ego won't allow being directed by somebody else and i'm thinking the net result will mean they'll never be another truely great prince album again - which is a truely gutting concept but i think the writing's been on the wall for ages...
3121 while extremely good, just isn't well produced.
Fuck!

He can be. TRC is tight sounding and layered just right. There's a lot going on but it's not too crowded. The music sounds live, in a way, on some tracks, but still crisp.


This latest album is ok, but it's not particularly interesting production-wise. Sounds are pretty crisp and put together well enough, but it sounds a little dated I think. Just sounds like Slaughterhouse and Chocolate Invasion.

KrystleEyes said:

I disagree completely. I don't think he needs a producer. He'd sound like everyone else then. If someone told you "so and so" produced 3121, you'd be all over it.

was

rainbowchild said:

will be.

was

It's interesting listening to something like Fury because it's ANOTHER rock-pop track that is 'spoiled' by it's production.

Since it's the latest in a long line of such misdemeanors, one can only imagine Prince likes them to sound this way.

Regarding Prince's production overall, I think he could use some new influences.

thomas dolby cited prince as THE greatest producer--so go figure.

Before Paisley Park was 'finished' I thought Prince was a wonderful producer. The haphazard, fix-as-you-go approach (That octopus that Chris moon talked about) suggests being kept on his toes by the inadequacy of the equipment around him - and the invention of the 'new learned' as he went into the WB studios.

Since PP has been finished, the production on Prince's records has, to me, sounded far too clean. I think the production on Lovesexy and TRC is evidence of his 'ear' and both are layered and moxed wonderfully (I like the way instruments are buried in the mix on Lovesexy; sometimes its frutstrating, sometimes is exciting you have to listen so closely). Other than that the completion of PP has made some production bland.

BoySimon said:

I know exactly what you mean, and I agree completely.

I think he tries to polish the records too much, adding too many embellishments when they're teally not needed. Time and time again I wish he'd just stop and leave things a bit rougher, like some of the tracks on "SOTT", instead of trying to take all the edges off.

Take "Reflection" for example. It sounded great when he performed it live with Wendy on that TV show but poor on album because of the keyboards and over-intrusive drums. If only he'd left it as a solo acoustic number, just him and a guitar, it would have been so much better.

When he removes all of the edges the results are truly dire - "Emancipation" doesn't have a single edge on any of its three CDs, and we're left with an indigestible, bland, featureless mush of an album. For all of the flak it takes, at least "Chaos and Disorder" sounds delightfully rough and ready.

Nasalhair said:

That's total bollocks. If you don't hear the edge on some of the cuts on "Emancipation" you sure shouldn't hear it on any other albums of his either.

Nasalhair said:

Totally agree!

Novabreaker said:

Which tracks????

I guess 'Courtin' Time' has an edge of sorts in that it was a bold, retro move performing a whole track on a Casiotone keyboard.

Fauxie said:

ooo, you got SERVE!

Fauxie said:

In This Bed I Scream, Joint 2 Joint, Face Down. Just to mention 3 of the top of my head.

Novabreaker said:

Mmmm... maybe I'd give you those, if you combined the edge on all of them and put it together, and if you imagined the live version of Face Down while you listened to it. You'd be able to find plenty more that are just soft and fluffy though.

Novabreaker said:

I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Granted it has been a hell of a long time since I listened to "Emancipation" (years - I hated it so much the last time that I really don't feel the urge to return to it) but all I remember were too many synths, fake drums, and too many plasticky-sounding songs with over-polished production. From what I remember "In This Bed I Scream" was just naff, and "Face Down" was a crappy half-rap song with car horns on it (or maybe that was another one... whatever, I'm not going back to find out.)

Snap said:

prince has definetely got this laid back restrained style in some of his studio songs... I thought the same thing when I heard the "Sign O the TImes" album back in '87. Prime example: "I could Never Take the PLace of YOur Man"... but now I realize that it might be just how he is trying to make it different... he really does try to brand his songs as "Prince" songs, that is what Femi Jeyi said in a talk he gave when it came down to prince's mixing/production style. It often went against what Femi wanted to do. The one album that Femi said was produced in a more non-prince way was.....

"Rainbow Children" abum , which was done more the way Femi wanted it (as far a mixing levels... according to FemiJeyi)...

PS

ERic Leeds seemed to be of the opinion that Lovesexy the album was ruined by overproduction and layering compared to what he originally heard laying down tracks.

Prince's idea of a "Prince" sound most of the time seems to be: to have all the subtle percussion noises and synth/effects touches right up front, just as loud as the main instruments. I think generically speaking that is the Prince sound.

Also he throws in one catchy, odd, repetitive element in the mix. If we were to stereotype.

ufoclub said:

Interesting.

In that case, just let Femi produce as well as engineer.

ufoclub said:

Cool observation.

In the words of Brian Eno - 'Prince is this producers' producer'