XxAxX said:

We pay taxes on all recordable media which are established to compensate the artists for recordings.

File sharing is not illegal here. As resolved by the supreme court of Canada
on the 31st of March 2004. Citation: 2004 FC 488.

The complete ruling by Justice von Finckenstein (beleieve it or not) is available online.

He compared file sharing to having a photocopier in a library.

roanmairin said:

and is prince's work protected by a canadian copyright? or do you suppose it's registered in the U.S.? is the distribution and sale being accomplished solely in canada?

in the U.S. the use of photocopiers in libraries to copy protected works is subject to copyright laws and protections

are you seriously arguing that downloading these leaked, unauthorized tracks is perfectly 'okay'?????
[Edited 3/15/06 9:36am]

XxAxX said:

I'm just refering the law as we are required to follow it in Canada. I am taking no moral stance.

When you e-mail an illustrated joke or a cartoon do you worry about the royalties getting back to the author? Every e-mail is an unauthorized reproduction.

Out of curiosity how closely monitored are these photocopiers? If you can't use them to photcopy copyrighted material why are they there? Surely they are used primarily for just that purpose.

Whether file sharing is ok or not is really irrelevant. This is the new world we live in and file sharing is a fact of life. Copyrighting as we know it will change. It has to.

We won't be having these discussions in five or ten years because the people growing up in a this world will know no alternate form of aquiring music. Only us old timers hanging on to a passing era will even consider the moral implications of downloading music, tv or movies.

roanmairin said:

all good points. i guess i'm being a b*tch about it because i feel sorry for prince. here he is, giving us a cool day-by-day lead-up intro (twins' pics, with a countdown), and meanwhile the masses seem to have alreaty listened to the album and are already reviewing it.

Is this thread still going?

Bloody Nora, it's out in a few days.

Of the 12 songs on 3121 we've already heard 6 of them legally:

Te Amo Corazon - Video and NPGMC download
Black Sweat - Same as above
Satisfied - Award show performance
Fury - Saturday Night Live
BL&B - SNL
The Dance - on The Chocolate Invasion

I already know half of the album. It's not going to be that much of a surprise when it's officially released. I've already pre-ordered it and can't wait to get it but I have no problem with having already heard it in it's entirety. The day I realized it was out there to download gave me the feeling that I would have gotten on the release date. I didn't miss out on anything...I just got the feeling earlier. And I still have the physical disc to look forward to. I will have 2 good days involving 3121. And when that purple ticket is in my hands...WHOO-HOO!

What about the people that legally download 3121 on the release day? Are they missing out because they don't have the CD and liner notes? Personally, I like to have the disc in hand but like others have said it's a new world out there and downloaded singles are the future. The concept of an album worth of songs is quickly becoming a thing of the past. It's unfortunate IMO. There are some great "concept" albums out there that need to be listened to from start to finish.

Random question...Is it illegal or morally wrong to download an album that I already own? Discuss.

the album sucks



sign of a sorry time

but better than musicology

Bosco said:

The version of 'The Dance' on 3121 is far superior to the one released through the club.

Bosco said:

Not in the slightest. I dunno why you would want to do that, maybe because one is too lazy to rip the CD?

your avatar really wigs me out

NouveauDance said:

NouveauDance said:

Never underestimate the levels of laziness one can achieve if you just put your mind to it. Actually, I was trying to explain the whole downloading controversy to my father and this question came up. I just thought it was funny that he came up with the question.

And Nouveau is right...The Dance on 3121 is much better than on TCI.

Bosco said:

Can you imagine if "the Wall" had come out now? Would it have been so successful? I don't think so and the music world would be so much poorer for it.

roanmairin said:

I don't understand what your point is. Are you saying if The Wall was only a digital download, it wouldn't have been successful? I do think perhaps digital downloads destroy the appearance of an album being successful because we are used seeing the CD or vinyl leaping off the shelves of a record shop, or sitting about in our friends record collection. Somebody could own The Wall now - but you wouldn't know it since it was only on their mp3 player! But that doesn't inherently mean the album wouldn't actually still be a success.

metalorange said:

I just mean if you downloaded it in pieces and listened to the songs out of context the impact of the album is greatly diminished. I think that album benefitted greatly from the format it was released on.

shausler said:

That is the desired effect

It's silly to get overly excited about the whole "fresh off the shelf" experience. Time to grow up.

I personally wanted to hear these tracks early cuz I was pretty sure the album would be crappy. And of course I was right, so I just saved myself a few bucks.

NouveauDance said:

Isn't that you photoshopped into the pic? I always figured that.

Bosco said:

I'll give you Te amo, Black Sweat and BLAB. Satisfied is not very different but is a bit longer and sounds much better on the album.

I think you will be very surprised by The Dance and Fury though. Neither are like the versions you have already heard. The Dance is now a great track where I always disliked it before. If you loved Fury on SNL you will be shocked to hear the album one. Obviously there are similarities but it's not nearly as rocky as when performed live. I didn't like it at first but I think that was more from shock at the difference. It's actually a really good track and one of my favourited on the album.

Kkirgirl said:

Or, to play devil's advocate, people will download it, hate it, and as such discourage others from buying it. Two weeks of 'this isn't very good' reviews could really dent sales - if that had been the case. In fact, the reviews have been both good and bad from fans.

I really don’t understand the argument. Just because the songs are in mp3 format doesn’t mean the only place they can be heard is on tin can computer speakers. I burned the songs onto CD and have listened to it in the car and on the stereo at home. So what if I don’t get the same buzz someone else will get on the 21st. Its just another day. I am sure those same people didn’t get the buzz I got last week when the final song had downloaded, I had burned all 12 songs and played it loud on my stereo.

Anyway, that’s all by the by. Next weeks release will surprise all of us people that have already downloaded it because what we have downloaded was not the final cut. It was the leaked release of a listening party CD which, in the case of some of the songs, was not quite finished. The final release will be polished up and have a different production. Some of the trax will be extended too…

Im thinking of Lolita – theres some clipping going on and the snare during the drum breaks sound unconnected and untreated.

Im thinking of 3121 which ends suddenly with an abrupt echo disguising the fact that it had been cut. This track has more to offer as we will see.

The Word has some timing issues in the arrangement and the vocal isn’t always up to scratch in places like the reverb was suddenly cut. The arrangement is a bit unbalanced.

The Dance ends rather too quickly. Again it sounds like studio trickery to disguise an edit…

There are other bits n pieces that stick out if you listen carefully… I genuinely think that some of the trax were incomplete and still work in progress… Prince and Universal have not uttered a single word of dissatisfaction with the leak… Prince of all people should be absolutely livid considering his reaction to bootlegging etc in the past… Its all a ruse…

Rebeljuice said:

Do you really believe that? That there are some tiny tiny alterations still to be done on the album that didn't make the listening party CD? It's completely illogical and I don't agree at all with these 'bits' that stick out that you mention - sounds fine and complete to me. Perhaps you are being ironic or perhaps you are just so wrong you will pretend your post never existed come Monday.

metalorange said:

Perhaps, but frankly alot of diehards will get the album at least by release day and encourage or discourage the casual fans no matter what.

Personally, I know that Prince will sell one more copy of the album because I gave someone a burned copy of the downloads. I didn't encourage or discourage them, just left it on their desk. A couple of days later they told me "I'm buying that when it comes out!"

Universaluv said:

If I left burned copies on colleagues desks I'd hear a cry of, "What's this shit?". Then as I look up I'll see a shiny silver disc heading towards me frisbee style.

skywalker said:

(and so what if we do?)

TheEnglishGent said:

What kind of football hooligans do you work with?

My colleague is a casual Prince fan. Listens to Prince, but doesn't really follow him, so it makes sense for me to let him know what's coming out.

.
[Edited 3/17/06 9:00am]

TimeKeeper said:

so you stole the unauthorized release and now you won't pay for it when the album is released? wow. FLAUNT your evil

XxAxX said:

I think it depends whether he keeps the download or not. If he doesn't like it, and deletes it, then its try before you buy.

The end result would be no different than buying it, hating it, and taking it back.

If he keeps the download though, then I agree thats not right.

On another issue,....

I made a copy of Musicology for a friend who would never buy a Prince album. He loved it, and went on to buy it. He'll probably get the new album too.

So the opportunity to listen to an "illegal" copy lead to sales of one or more albums which would not have been bought otherwise.

Which would Prince rather happen? No sale?

harkening back th eoriginal post, that is the most asinine position I have ever read. you cannot fully enjoy music unless it is available at a store for purchase? huh? I suppose I ruined myself by downloading all those NPGMC tracks years ago because I should have waited until they were released on cd. an MPS is no worse quality than a cassette tape, and many of Prince albums were enjoyed on cassette prior to the invention of cds.

XxAxX said:

Evil seems a little harsh (but I guess it helps me understand your posts in P and R) but if he gets rid of the tracks from his computer I would see it as absolutely no different then borrowing a friends cd to see if it would be something you were interested in buying it.

Even if he did keep them...evil seems very harsh. You might be a litttle over the top.