Meloh9 said:

And I hated Glass Cutter. Such a boring, meaningless track! Prince could never be a "has been" though. His fanbase is just fractured and it shows the difference between white, black, young, and old. Simple as that, really.

Jackeblu said:

You're right. But Prince's fans are diverse. People want Prince to play a certain way, to produce a certain way, to only make certain types of music. You've got an album here that has 12 songs that are all completely different. Obviously, opinions will be fractured. To me, this is a truly great album. But then again, I can see the whole picture. I don't think others can see it. There is no accounting for taste.

Jackeblu said:

True.


But explain 'pseudo reviews' please.

Klyph said:

no not just the guitar. because its funky and original and it rocks like fuck.

loudawg said:

Its ironic how the same qualities you mentioned used to be what kept Prince's fanbase special, and showed its unity. Boy the times have changed!

loudawg said:

\
I think thats his problem, and the albums problem in alot of ways. I dont want him to only produce a certain way, and only make certain types of music, yet that seems to be what he's doing. And I know this cause i feel i do see the whole picture, and it dont taste 2 good.

Meloh9 said:

Original??...In what possible way is "Glass Cutter" original?

And there is a LOT on 3121 that is funky... So if it's funky you're hoping for, you should be happy.

But imho, I think it's the "rocks like fuck" part that explains your opinion...which kinda goes back to the original thought that it's the guitar that makes you feel Prince is doing so well on "Glass Cutter". I listened to it last week and found myself underwhelmed by it, even though I still like it. To me, it's nowhere near deserving of "saving Prince's career" status...it's a cool song to me, but little more.

BSK3601 said:

You know, people were saying that same thing about her in the 80's but, somehow, she's still around. Call it want you want, but sticking around - and remaining popular - as long as she has requires talent. Luck, shock value, and good marketing only get you so far, like maybe an album or two... not two decades.



I don't see anything wrong with this scenario. Madonna keeps her ear to the ground and her finger on the pulse of whatever trend is 'happening' at the time and creates a great record in that sphere. It works really well for her, obviously.




Do you really think Madonna was making all the anti-war fuss for $$$$? That was a pretty successful failure, if so.





Prince's problem in trying to be relevant or do some band wagon hopping is that for all his talent he really CAN'T successfully ape specific commercial styles and apply it to his own music. It always ends up coming out sounding like 'quirky Prince'. Much in the same way that his attempts at producing others usually end up canceling out their own sound and replacing it with Prince's, imo.

Klyph said:

No matter how many songs Prince sings about unity, god, the truth, getting on the boat, etc, it's never going to happen. It can't, Because as humans we're built to want what we don't have. There is no god, or supreme being overseeing us all. People "believe" so they don't feel so empty, but sooner or later, the end will come and you'll be unconscious for all enternity. But that's another discussion. Unity as far as people will never happen either, for basically the same reasons. Unit A is like-minded and Unit B is like-minded. People keep to their own kind, tastes, culture. It's nothing to be ashamed of. Everybody wants to get they piece in.....

PurpleKnight said:

But it was only a demo really and hardly a properly fleshed out track. More a funk jam. With that in mind it's quite a cool, funky listen, but hardly a particularly meaningful, lasting song.

jtfolden said:

I can see how someone would enjoy Madonna, but to me, I just can't get into it. It seems fake, irrelevant to life, she's not that talented, and her success is purely image driven. But then again, 90% of life is image driven if you judge success by record sales or popularity. I've always wanted to search out what was good rather than buying into what's popular. I believe most people are like sheep.

loudawg said:

The only real difference now is the internet...with the web and message boards like the Org we now get access to hundreds (if not thousands) of individual opinions instantly within hours after first hearing a new CD. 20 years ago we would have only heard the opinions of our roommates and a few friends, tops...lol...we assume there's more fracturing of the fan base only because we have access to more of the fan base. These same exact arguments would have existed when Purple Rain was released if it were possible to instantly gather 40,000 Prince fans together to discuss it...
[Edited 3/7/06 19:20pm]

oopsss
[Edited 3/7/06 19:22pm]

Musically “3121” sounds like a more studied and accomplished "New Power Soul" party record. Thematically it sounds like a loosely based concept album; a kind of Cliff Notes version of "The Rainbow Children".

Having stated that, Prince appears to be playing a character at points, such as when he's the "featured rapper" on his own track "Incense and Candles". When he's rapping about shiny rims, I don't hear this as Prince speaking in the first person, but rather Prince taking on the role of the stereotypical seducer/player.

The female reaction, as played by Tamar and written by Prince, is “gross and gross”.

That’s the Prince viewpoint I think that should be up for criticism. I don’t think Prince even cares much about cars, much less making people think he cares about their rims or trying to be hip or cool by talking about them.

Quite the opposite it would seem. He’s actually playing the role of “featured fool” and then critiquing it through Tamar.

But I haven’t studied the lyrics in detail yet and I might change my tune after I do.

Byron said:

You're right. The internet has changed communication big time. Plus, it shows you the nature of most people. Arguments, having to be right, hate. That's nothing bad though. It cuts through the fog of the media saying we should all "get along." People are people. One's perspective and feelings are based on their family, how they grew up, their friends, and what they attach themselves to. If you hate 3121, but Prince had a great time making the record, met a new girl (Tamar), and was paid millions of dollars for the record, is it really a bad record? Complications, complications....

Byron said:

The original part to me was how he chose to let the lyrics flow, the cadence of it. Part Sly part hip-hop to my ears. Something can be original and still show its influences, that’s kind of what makes Prince who he is in the first place. And funk can rock also... rock is the father of funk.. So its not just the guitars.. I don't think inside of a box.

And it’s all just my opinion. I really, really liked the song that’s all. It is nothing to really analyze or break down.

Brendan said:

Interesting take on that song...

Brendan said:

That's a really interesting read on it. He definitely loves to play his roles, but they do seem be more subtle lately than the in the days of Bob George.

Fauxie said:

and let us not forget that much of Dirty Mind, which most would agree is a classic Prince album was recorded the same way.

Fauxie said:

Not trying to offend...just the reviews are meaningless to the point that they might as well be fake. I'll listen to the album, like I do with all albums, and form my own opinion regardless whats on here. Reading these are for pure entertainment value only. Another thing Prince albums ALWAYS take time to sink in...what you like/dislike now IS going to change.

Byron said:

That is an interesting viewpoint on the song. Having listened a few more times, "Nonsense and Rimming" has now moved up to a C+. Lamar Burton sounds good on it.

loudawg said:

...True...

Brendan said:

Whatever you need to tell yourself to make it a good record.

It's more like a Cliffnotes version of Musicology or Rave to me. I don't hear anything in terms of muscianship on this record that was dominant on TRC. As preachy as that album was, the musicianship and passion were undeniable. All of course, imho.

Wall said:

Whatever you need to tell yourself--and the rest of us incessantly--to convince yourself that it's not worthy of a second listen...

Wall said:

TRC was also a commercial disaster, selling just over 100,000 copies. Again, what's good and what sells is not equal, unfortunately. What to do?

Byron said:

loudawg said:

True about what is good and what sells. But TRC wasn't a commercial release either. He didn't have a powerhouse label like Sony or Universal backing him up. No airplay if any at all.. no video spots on B.E.T or MTV, no major distributor.

First impressions:

3121:A great kicking, stomping funky opening with a touch of swagger, but it grinds along in such a narrow range rhythmically and melodically that when you've heard it once you've heard it all. It's funny that others have mentioned tracks from the Camille era, because it's precisely the wild creativity and experimentation from that time that I think is missing here. Everything is just so controlled and one-dimensional. It’s a long way from ‘Crystal Ball’.

Lolita: This sort of reminds me of the cuteness that crept into Prince's music at the end of his golden run, about the time of "Graffiti Bridge". Despite the hint of the risqué in the title, it's as adolescent as the Backstreet Boys and, again, just really repetitive. The call-and-response might have worked in the late 80s, but Prince is in his 40s now and there’s not a strong enough whiff of irony for my liking.

Te Amo Corazon: I liked this when it was first released, but he needs to loosen his control over the arrangement. Everything sounds so drained of emotion and spontaneity, so produced, and I think that detracts from the song's strongest feature, which is its spacious, floating quality. It could be longer. Needless to say, it doesn't quite fit stylistically.

Black Sweat: Prince's falsetto has rarely sounded better scratching against the minimalist thud of the Linn. I like the way that the song never really fully releases the momentum and energy that it accumulates- the chorus is just a tantalising shift of gears, working it up but never fully releasing it. I think this is his most satisfying minimalist electro-funk number in many years.

Incense and Candles: Oh God. This could have been released by any number of contemporary R&B acts.

Love: I don't care much for the aggressive early-90s attitude in the verse (is it too much to expect a more mature lyrical slant?), but this is incredibly tight and catchy with a very memorable synth hook. If Prince insists on working within these stylistic and lyrical confines, this is probably the best that we can hope for.

Satisfied: This just has emotionally hollow pastiche written all over it. On the Couch Pt II. Prince nailed this perfectly the first time with 'Dark' more than ten years ago, but now it just sounds by-the-numbers, formulaic and boring.

Fury: A classic composition, a potential Prince staple. I wonder how I would've felt about this had he not first performed it on SNL, but it beggars belief that he can reduce such an incendiary song into a limp pop-rock number. Push the guitar up in the mix. Give Tamar the microphone and let her sing her lungs out. Just let go a little bit.

The Word: Let's just say that the JW creed is far more palatable in the form of a crazy rainbow narrative than a mid-90s r&b groove. This a pleasant, head-bobbing composition, but I just feel like there's nothing in the vocals, the production or the melody that will send me into a spin like his best music always does. The guitar solo at the end is nice.

BL&B: Once again, this reminds me of Graffiti Bridge-era Prince. This is no great revelation, but Prince just doesn't let the song breathe: he doesn't let Tamar use her voice for starters, and on the whole I just feel this is a great melody completely suffocated by Prince's authoritarian production ethos. I thought the SNL performance of this had some real guts and power because Prince let Tamar off her leash and allowed her to invest something of herself, something human, in the song.

The Dance: A real standout. There is space in this song. It doesn't just bludgeon the listener with its hooks. The piano interlude is exceptional. The vocal, for the first time, has not been completely drained of emotion and humanity by overbearing production. Hell, the vocal effect- used more sparingly than in I&C- even works.

Get on the Boat: This would've been better if it didn't sound so pristine and produced, but it's one of the stronger cuts all the same. I still don't like the feeling, though, that Prince is trying to cover all the bases, as if every album he makes should be a little lolly bag containing the whole array of his stylistic riches. He's been doing that for far too long.

Damn! What the hell happened on the other thread. A flame war over music?! Yikes.

Anyway, I have only listened to about half the "unreleased" tracks (3121, Love, Fury, The Word, GOTB). I'm diggin it. It's not as funky as I'd like, but I think it will grow on me. The biggest let down was Fury. I didn't expect it to be as bad ass as SNL, but like someone on the 1st thread said, it sounds like a demo/outtake. Hopefully the non MP3 version will be better. Also, sounds a little bit slower in tempo.

More importantly though--when will my purple ticket arrive??