Black Sweat has just debut'd at #60 on the billboard hot 100 singles chart for this week http://billboardradio.com...o/4160.jsp and by the way is the "hot shot debut" of the week!

nice!
[Edited 3/1/06 21:23pm]

Get ready to serve up a big ass serving of crow for the haters. BS will be in the top 40 by next week.

Cool

Someone explain to me how #60 is a good chart position??? In the UK,if you don't get into the top 10, it's pretty much regarded as a failure these days...

metalorange said:

the us and uk charts are totally different, metal...most songs peak in the uk in their first week but most songs in the us still have to climb the chart for a few weeks before they peak because its such a vast country compared to the uk...it is looking like his biggest hit since maybe "i hate u" made 13 in 1995 in the us....

blackbob said:

Well, thanks for that... though I still don't understand why songs are so slow to rise in the charts over there. Surely the song is released/promoted equally at the same time across the country? I don't see what the size has to do with it. Is it a case of Americans needing to hear a song on the radio and tv a dozen times before they are brainwashed enough to make an effort to buy it?! Actually, that wouldn't make it any different to over here...
[Edited 3/2/06 4:32am]

remember metal orange that airplay counts towards chart positions in america, like for instance, aerosmiths 'jaded' climbed to just outside the top10 on airplay alone, then when the retail single was released, the two combined caused it to jump up into the top10.

here in the UK airplay doesn't count, so songs often peak on the first week of release.

as people have pointed out, black sweat is the hot shot debut, meaning its the highest charting song to debut on the chart this week. this would normally mean you could expect it to be a big big hit, but now itunes and downloads count, things are becoming more fractured. for instance, BS has not charted due to airplay, but to downloads, meaning this could be its peak, in which case the charts in the US could swing towards a more UK style. on the other hand, the publicity gained from having this high debut for the song, could mean more people download it and radio gives it more of a chance.

DarkKnight1 said:

Sadly, no it won't. It entered at number 60 thanks to digital sales on iTunes. Those numbers have shrunk in the past week, so "Black Sweat" will likely take a big plunge next week. Remember, Willie Nelson's gay cowboy song debuted at number 52 last week and now it's completely off the chart. If airplay continues to build and fuels sales, it will make a turnaround. And that might happen. But look for "Black Sweat" to make a big drop next week.

softandwet said:

it may be its peak for a few weeks but i think sales of the single will pick up once the album is released because i expect that 3121 will debut in the top 3 of the album chart and people that didn't buy the album will be curious and download the Black Sweat single

Mazerati said:

I don't know if it will ever get any higher than number 60, but you're right; it should spike the week the album is released. A recent example of this is Jack Johnson's "Upside Down." It charted in the 50s when it debuted, then dropped quickly. When the album was released, sales had an uptick and sent the song back to #38.

But hopefully airplay will start to grow significantly, and all the video play will keep it alive at iTunes. Just how far it falls next week will be a good indicator of it's longevity.

renfield said:

Renfield is absoultely right on . #60 is as far as this song is going , at least in the short term. Radio airplay , what little there was is flat and actually starting to lose spins . And after the first week rush at itunes the song will see a significant drop there in week 2.

If somehow radio can pick up then we'll be back in business. There will also be a bump when the actual physical single is released . But talk of a top 10 or even top 40 hit now .... it not happening.


All that aside , congrats to the man on the high debut and the #1 selling single of the week.



On a side note .... this is 2006 and the 2 Top debuts are #60 Prince , Black Sweat and #70 Madonna , Sorry ...how cool is that , lets hear it for the old timers !
[Edited 3/2/06 6:07am]

can someone please explain to me how a song can be the no.1 best seller and only come in at number 60?....i know airplay is a factor but come on!!!

softandwet said:

I didn't know that, and it sounds like a bonkers system! A radio DJ may like the song and play it everyday on his show, but it doesn't mean the public like it. The charts should be a reflection of what the public is enjoying, and the only way to quantify that is actual sales.

After the Musicology ticket/CD bundle counted towards chart success, they stopped allowing that practice because there was no choice involved on the part of the buyer of the tour ticket. I don't see what choice a person has in airplay, so why should that be any different?

blackbob said:

lol...don't even try to make sense of the charts in America.It's absurd

DavidEye said:

very true...

Im not sure what exact formula Billboard uses when weighing sales and airplay for the Hot 100. But what it comes down to is "Single" sales are still very minimal in the big picture. The digital download has made sales relevant again but compared to sales of singles in say the 80's and even 90's to a lesser extent ..its no where near that level....yet.


In comparision "Gett Off" in 1991 had little to no airplay but was a Top 5 seller on the Sales chart it went to # 21 on the Hot 100.

.
[Edited 3/2/06 7:21am]

newpower99 said:

Hey and don't forget, Bon Jovi landed in the top 40 with their new country song (!!!).

Now where the heck are A Flock of Seagulls?

renfield said:

i was really glad to see Bon Jovi hit the top 40 this week...its a cool song

Renfield , since you seem to be a bigger chart freak than me (or anyone else who knows)

First...
On Billboard ...there are two Digital charts.. a Hot Digital Tracks chart and a Hot Digital Songs chart . What the hell is the difference ?

Secondly , Prince's Black Sweat is not on either of these charts . However, Black Sweat is # 1 on the Top Single Sales chart. Considering all of Black Sweats sales are digital this seems backwards. What am I missing ?

DarkKnight1 said:

why put labels on folks? why pre-judge? why not positivity?

sosgemini said:

1. Because this is prince.org, not ponyfarm.org

2. Because this forum is normally full of "Prince has lost it" stuff (without any care of "positivity"), so just give us our moments to enjoy...

EmancipationLover said:

so, ruin a rather positive thread by snarking is the way to go ehh?

oh-tay..

newpower99 said:

well the formula is very simple!!!

one download or real cd single sale == 2000 audience of airplay!!

actually compared to pre-98 the value of sales has doubled

i think BS sold 11k it might be #1 in real physical single i dont think 11k is enuff to be #1 usually #1 downloads r somewhwere in the 30k range


since 1998 until feb 2005 only airplay was counted for H100


b4 1998 to qualify for H100 u needed to release a physical single it didnt matter how well the song was doin in airplay
[Edited 3/2/06 9:47am]

DarkKnight1 said:

Yup! People who live in the past shouldn't throw stones into the future. Purple Rain is dead!

ImYours said:

now what the hell does this comment have to do with the price of tea in china?

sosgemini said:

That's not what I meant.

First of all, I don't think that the original comment ruined the thread. Enough people posted afterwards.

All I meant is that we had numerous "Prince has lost it", "When did (whatever) go", "He's old" kind of threads within the last few months - not to mention those who exactly knew that "3121" was giong to be a disaster just by listening to the first sound snippet of TAC. Those who called for more "positivity" during that period were often overheard.

Now that things seem to take a different route, isn't it somehow understandable that some of those people tend to make some more "edgier" remarks on the negativity addicts? Btw, the post wasn't even directed to a specific person...

EmancipationLover said:

but note that one comment is directed at the art/product which is released to be critiqued (ie, enjoyed or not) ....while the other is directed at individual participants of this communities personal opinion....

you think thats fair?

and my ruin statement was not directed towards the thread..but moreso the mood of the thread.

cha know what i mean?

sosgemini said:

I think it's not more fair or unfair than the tendency to label certain members of the community as "fams" just because they disagree with some kind of "common sense" (whatever that might be). And that tendency can be found a lot on the org imo.

For example, TAC was dissed here to death, but what was the result of the poll on the homepage? More than 50 % of the people (overall) liked it. Seems like the voice of the "haters" can be rather strong...

As for the mood of the thread, most posts were about technical aspects of chart positioning. I don't think that a single post can ruin a thread or its mood. But, generally, I know what you mean.

Getting the thread more or less back on topic and not about haters and lovers and positive posts and negative posts but pure discussion - does anybody on here actually think that including radio airplay in the chart numbers is valid? Is what is played by a DJ at his own discretion any indication of the popularity or not of a song? Which is what the charts should be about, surely?

metalorange said:

Yes and no (as strange as that may seem).

You're right, it is unvalid as we are dependent on the radio's choice. That choice used to be made by a DJ, these days it is "format radio" and some computer or stupid managers decide what is played. That really is unvalid!

On the other hand, what does radio usually play? The most popular stuff (that exactly is the problem imo). That's what the charts are about - popularity. Only that we don't like what is played doesn't mean it isn't popular.

The major problem doesn't seem to be the dictatorship of radio over peoples' tastes, but more the uncritical attitude of many people. "You think that's not good? But how many records has that guy sold?" If more people were critical with music and didn't see it as a good for easy digestion, pop music wouldn't be in the sad state it is today, and the difference of quality and popularity wouldn't be as big either.

In addition, I just had the idea that not including radio airplay into charts might help to increase the quality of radio. I must correct myself - as the UK charts obviously don't include airplay, the utter crap they play on Radio 1 must have some other reason...