PurpleCharm said:

You call me ignorant and then put a little smile on it. That's ignorant and sarcastic to me. And definately twisted.

wasitgood4u said:[quote]

altavista said:

Well, she has black blood in her veins for sure, but she is not the stereotype of a black or even mixed beauty.

IMHO she looks like an awesome white girl dipped in chocolate, which unfortunately is a Caucasian-centric stereotype of what black beauty should be.

And at any event... Who cares if she is labelled as black, mixed or white? She was a beautiful and talented woman, and that's what counts...
[Edited 3/7/06 6:55am]

In the interest of saving space I condensed my responses into one post…

OskarKristio said:

Yes, I agree with you. That was what I was trying to say, but perhaps I didn’t articulate my point very well.

OskarKristio said:

Exactly, it’s not that I didn’t grow up with heritage—my immediate family is interested in genealogy, family reunions, etc. In my case I think it’s more that I rejected it because I didn’t want to be forced/pigeon-holed into being part of a certain culture or background. I didn’t want people generalizing me in the same way most people from my home town are generalized (and generalize others). I look at it the same way I look at art or Prince’s music—it can’t definitively be one genre or style. I don’t want people to look at me and say, “White girl from Iowa.” She must be like x, y, and z. I like to learn about all different cultures & traditions and pick the best/coolest things from each one, even if I’m not from that culture. I guess in a way, I’m making my own culture but for the time being, I’m the only member.

Wasitgood4u said:

I hope the vibe you got from me wasn't negative--that wasn't my intention...I've just always been curious as to why some people feel their cultural identity is so intrinsic to who they consider themselves to be. Sometimes it’s like people define themselves based on others, not who they really are inside.

I'd like to take a moment to address everyone who assumed that a person making reference to being colourblind or saying we're all the same is either white or has never experienced racism is wrong.

There is more at play in a discussion about racism than black vs. white, and there are more colours participating in said discussion than just those two. Learn it, love it, then let's move on.

I look white, but am not. Despite my appearance, I have experienced racism. The only difference between my experience and that of a visible minority is that instead of snap judgements, people get to know me before they decide to hate me or think less of me. The end result is the same.

Of course, I know a colourblind society is not yet possible or practical -and it probably won't be for a very long time. I know that while we're essentially all the same, there are some differences. But I also know that these differences are not something we are born with, but something we learn. I don't think it's a bad thing to hope that one day, our descendents will learn not to fuck things up like we have and to truly love one another.

As for Prince -I'll be completely honest. I did like it better when race wasn't an issue. Why? Because I don't care. Sure, it's great that he's got an awareness of and pride in his roots. More people should, I think. (Precisely why I don't pass myself off as white, even though I easily could. I am what I am, and no "Indian killer" is going to make me deny my heritage) But it doesn't make one fuck bit of difference to my appreciation of his music or my opinion of him whether he's white, black, or a goddamned moose. If it did matter, I wouldn't have been a fan in the first place.





Come to think, wouldn't Prince as a moose be kinda cool? Maybe that's just me.

meow85 said:

Another great post! I agreed that some of the posters on here claiming to be colorblind or gives we all the same speech are either from the dominant culture or have never experience racism. And that thinking can be dangerous as it is far from reality. And as long as their minds remains in the fantasyworld there is nothing you, I, or anyone else who experienced racism firsthand, can say to get them to learn or listen from our experiences.

And also that although Prince is more racially pride these days, that doesn't take away of him making music for all people from different races. religions, and etc. He has been doing so for almost 30 years and he is probably going to continue so. I believed Prince loves the diverse of his fans.

And who cares what other people think of what you look like as long as you know who you are and thats what matters.

dewalliz said:

My mother, who is white, does that. Despite having been with a Native man for years, having two mixed kids, and witnessing some pretty severe racist acts and attitudes firsthand, she has a tendency to pretend like race doesn't matter. She's quite proud of telling this story about an Egyptian co-worker she'd known for years, and "just realizing" one day that this woman was coloured.

It's like she either doesn't understand, or likes to pretend that race can and does affect damn near everything, depending on the context. Race shouldn't matter, but sadly it still does and you can't just ignore that. A colourblind world is ideal IMO, but we're nowhere near that and won't be anytime soon.


Exactly. You don't need to be a light-skinned, short, girly black man to appreciate music made by a light-skinned, short, girly, black man. If you have ears, it's for you.

The only thing that bothers me are the off-hand comments he makes like "screaming like a white girl", "dancing like a white girl" etc. What the hell does that mean, and is it necessary to say it?



I don't tend to care what other people think. The bad encounters I have had are when people find out I'm not quite as Aryan Nation as I look. Nothing's more annoying than having what was a civil conversation with an otherwise okay seeming person turn into being called a squaw and asked to do the woo woo dance.

I don't wanna go on and on about this, but I guess I will:

I think there's some confusion between the desire to get rid of prejudice on the one hand and the idea that all differences should be erased on the other. If being "colourblind" means you accept the person based on who they are rather than on the colour of their skin, or any other superficial feature, then cool. But if people express an "ideal" that there should be no differences between people and that their backgrounds and ethnic identities should be discounted I, for one, find that offensive. To me that's not an ideal but a fascist nightmare (and a boring one - how interesting would the world be if it had one homogeneous culture - actually if McDonald's, Starbuck's and Nestle have their way, we'll be there soon!).

Jone70: you seem to be judgmental of people who have strong cultural connections - as if they're defining themselves through others or something. That's nonsense! I choose to define myself on the basis of where I come from. That IS who I am. In fact, there is no other way of defining yourself except through others: that's what language and communication are. Besides, you say that you like to take the "best" of different cultures. Ignoring the colonialist and consumerist implications of your outlook, whose cultures would you like to take from if everyone ignores their heritage? One might even say that you're plundering and exploiting other people's heritage, but one won't...

meow85 said:

Maybe your mother should participate to transform herself as a Native or a black person and she'd see how things are really are . That is the only way the dominant, the ones who acted like racism isnt a big deal, will finally wake up and realized that race does matter if they agreed to live as another race for a couple weeks. If they last that long.

I don't know why Prince says "blank like a white girl" on his songs either.

I agreed that it would nice to have a colorblind world, but that is just only a wished. It is getting better within the younger generation and I still considered myself to be young, so things will be even better than it is now if i live to be a very old age.

wasitgood4u said:

Agreed! Some of those so-called colourblind posters who shall remained nameless need to listen to this guy! Copy and paste this bold paragraph above to your word processor, printed, and memorized

sighs deeply.....

Prince isnt solely black, afro-american, or what the hell you try to call it...

His father is halve black, halve philipan

His mother is halve black, halve italian

Is really getting enough, puking even on the ones asking for black consciousness, get a life....get a grip.....what ever colour you are, its about what you are, a person, like all the white, yellow and red ones

I am a white fellow, but i dont understand black people purposely looking for some sideway.....show your guts, show yourselve, and dont whine, youre a person..

Romera said:

Really interesting post! More than likely this is what happened to Prince. I always thought that after the whole WB/ period Prince was more cool with saying "I'm a black man" than in the eighties he was "I'm a person".

thinks.....why the tendency to put people inside 'boxes'.....?

I mean, its fucking easy, but isnt all about connecting? things that happen on a way more subtle level....

thinks....the peeps who are labelling prince as 'black' are looking for an icon to build on their insecurities.....

is that what people are about? does the same skin-colour mean sameness, black americans are equally racistic in this case

wonders about 'red' consciousness.....

Riverpoet31 said:

Well one of my favorite things about Prince was he could relate very well to white people AND black people. Or whoever for that matter. I can relate to that very well. My elementary school was 80% black kids, had a black principal, most of my teachers were black...then in jr.high and high school I went to a school mostly with white kids and had lots of white friends/boyfriends....I like to think I can pretty much relate to lots of people..no matter what their background...I always felt Prince could do the same. Prince may seem to be proud to be black these days, date more bi-racial women, and women of color when he dated mostly white women in the eighties...to which I say that's cool. I'm happy Prince is happy being black...but don't get it all backwards...Prince still can hang with white people/women as comfortably as he did in the past.

wasitgood4u said:

I hope you are not directing that statement towards me...I never said there should be no differences, I just wondered why some people are so interested in their backgrounds & identities while others are not.



You seem a bit judgemental towards people who don't have strong cultural connections. (Two sides to every coin, I suppose.)



So by your train of thought I should only eat camembert cheese, listen to German waltzes and speak American English? That's nonsense! What I meant by "taking the best of other cultures" was that if I like the art of India, why can't I study Buddhist jakatas to learn more about the scenes in the temples? Why can't I make fajitas even though I'm not Mexican? Why can't I learn to "step" even though I'm not African-American? Why can't I learn Spanish?

I wonder if "one" would still say "plundering and exploiting" if I weren't white; but rather if "one" would say I was "assimilating"...

I also find it telling that your screen name comes from a verse where the next line is "Was I what U wanted me 2 be?" I don't care what other people want me to be, I define myself. And to tie this whole thing back to the original thread topic--I think that is what Prince was doing too. He refused to let others tell him what kind of music he should play or how he should act--he defined who he was himself, instead of letting others do it for him.

frowns about people talking about black and white..... i mean, this is the
21th century, i am way passed that kind of bullshit, what about you?

Prince ISNT black, Krystal...and by the way, skincolour is only skindeep

Krystal666 said:

This may sound like a dumb thing to say but that statement is like saying 'I'm happy Prince is happy being a man..'

Or has two arms, or he can walk, or he's got ears....

As far as I know you can't chose your skin colour at birth. Or your parents. Or your parents parents....or their parents parents....

It something you happen to be born with. Just as you are born with a blue print for everything else about your human make-up.

You don't choose your eye colour. You don't choose your height. The same as skin colour. Yet all these things don't determine who and what you become as a person.

Just be proud of yourself full-stop.

Exactly we are all individuals, race shouldnt matter.




I agree no one should have to discount or deny or change there culture,traditions,heritage etc I for one was never saying this, but on the other hand it could be equally offensive to deny people doing things that might not fit into there cultural stereotype, for example if a blackman happened to be a fan of classical music, it would be pretty offensive and racist if people were judgmental about that and took the attitude of like "shouldnt u be listening to hip hop" all Ive said is the same as you but also I think people should be free to do what they want as long as it is something they want rather than something
they feel they need to do for whatever reason.





Exactly American culture is spreading everywhere and overshadowing other cultures, when I went on holiday to the East European country where my father is from, all the kids there were into the whole gangsta rap scene, everybody was playin Tupac Another example I read interview with Bob Geldoff about the Live8 concert he was asked why there wasnt any African artist representing Africa
in that concert he said most Africans these days are more onto Eminem and other Amerrican artists than they are into there own artists.

[/quote]

Well in ways I think this is already happening, look at any big cosmopolitan city
they are often multicultural and in a consumer way too, there are all types restaurants etc etc, look at the whole world music fusion genre, where they take
folk songs or traditional music from all over the world and mix it up with house beats and stuff, perhaps this could be seen as exploitation too.
[Edited 3/8/06 18:40pm]

pepper7 said:

Well I'm happy I guess that he accepts himself. It took me along time to accept myself. My mom's white and my father is from Brazil so for the longest time I wanted to downplay my Brazilian heritage...I used to stay out of the sun as to not get tanner, used to hate my butt because it looked too ethnic, used to get so pissed when all the guys I liked went ga ga over the barbie type, I used to get really annoyed when people used to ask me "What are you? Persian, Indian, Philipino, Mexican, ect, ect." I'm like what isn't it obvious I'm white???? Uhh no..so now I'm so different...I go tanning like a mad woman, let my hair go curly sometimes...and am pretty proud of both my German and Brazilian heritage. So I've learned over time to just accept who I am and it just seems like Prince is more proud to say "Hey I'm black" but he's not like ONLY gonna hang with black people/date black women...(it must be a Minnesosta thing! ) Which I think is so cool. In alot of ways I still think Prince is still the color doesn't really matter person he's always been...I guess it just seems like he has accepted himself more.

wasitgood4u said:

Exactly.

It really is appalling how all of these misinterpretations could come from one simple observation by the original poster who, incidentally seems to have run for his life from this thread.



If Prince or anyone else expresses their feelings about their heritage, culture, race, etc, IT IS NOT A THREAT TO ANYONE!

Black consciousness does NOT mean...

1. That you have a victim mentality

2. That you can't appreciate other cultures

3. That you can't listen to classical music, Mexican music or any other music.

4. That you must act a certain way.

5. That you are not allowed to have friends or family of a different race.

7. That you think your particular group has cornered the market on suffering and therefore you don't acknowledge the plight of other people in the world who face hardships.

8. That the only factor we use to define ourselves is our skin color.

9. That Prince will start banning all non blacks from his shows.

10. I'm just addressing some of the absurd assumptions I've read on this thread.



It reminds me of people who almost had kittens over the fact that Prince became a Jehova Witness. Prince isn't quite okay with some people unless he's generic?

babynoz said:

I agreed with your post. another smart post! And irontically the original poster on here is no longer under that name.

Looks lik babynoz, dewalliz and I should form a team! Which is sad, really, coz this is turning into a debate with "teams" where each side is not really listening to the others. I certainly feel that jone, oskar and especially riverpoet didn't read my posts very carefully. Maybe I missed something in their's too. I certainly feel that Oskar and I r more or less on the same level, and I think Jone could be too, if it was a little less confrontational (BTW, I'm sorry if you were offended, my language was a bit harsh, but it was in response to a sense that your "difficulty to understand" people who have a strong cultural identity sounded a bit arrogant. If I misread your tone, I apologize.)

To clarify: I am all for cross-cultural interaction and appreciation: hell, I'm an Australian-Israeli Jew of Swiss-Russian-English-German-Latvian antecedents who's big into black music! But appreciating and absorbing other cultures doesn't and shouldn't entail rejecting your own. Jone, perhaps I misunderstood you, but I thought you were saying that you totally reject where you come from and choose what you want from other cultures - that WOULD be culturally imperialistic, in my view. Remember the only ones with access to pick and choose cultures are the powerful (that's not only whites, but all middle-class residents of "Western" countries and the rich worldwide). As noted, the poor and oppressed only get to choose between their own native culture and the one being rammed down their throat by the hegemonious overlords.
Anyway, as this is creating more mis- and less understanding, I think this will b my last post here. As long as we all keep our minds open and keep searching, things could be good. My motto actually comes from Deuteronomy (sorry for those who don't like Bible quotes, but this is the history-cultural-political-law book of my people, not a religious text per se, for me): "Justice justice you shall seek".
All the best 2 all of u

babynoz said:

Good Post Man , I can only agree With U

Hey Man Im an Australian born of (Hungarian fathers side) plus Mothers side = German/Jewish/Irish mix with apparently couple generations back some Aboriginal mixed in with the Irish side hows that for a cocktail

OskarKristio said:

Finally, you agreed with what other posters like Babykoz, I, and wasitgood4u been saying all along in this thread. I think we are making progress, but slowly.

dewalliz said:

I never felt differently about it, my sentiment was always the same , I think its just that finally now we struck that point of communication where its like ok we
pretty much have the same idea

OskarKristio said:

Thank you! By the way, I'm a female.