metalorange said:

Mmm i can see a link here between an artist who critisises big business companies, refuses to play old hits, afew hardcore fans r left who understand this decision, and RATE him for it, then the next year, he's playin hits because if he didnt, this would happen:

"it proves my point that if Prince only played new material and none of the hits, he would quickly lose his audience and just be left with a relatively small group of hardcore fans at his concerts. I'm sure there are many hardcore fans on here that want that to happen, but from a money-making music business point-of-view, it doesn't make sense"-metalorange.

Oh, so Prince has said he doesnt like commecial artists because they dont move on, use afew hits to make money etc, or maybe thats what their problem is, they are about makin' money.

Now its ok for Prince do to it, when its in HIS interest and when HE has a new album to promote. Now it's ok for prince, to make good business and be about the money, in your opinion, metalorange, after all he has said?

Either do a show that is about a Wendy and Lisa/Sheila E reunion, the focus on them, and is geared for them and their attention, and not being used on himself, push prince's new album which they are not on, or do new songs only with the new band.

to combine both, i think, was hypocritical, and a cop out but obviously wendy and lisa were happy to do this.


At any rate, i thought prince never gave a crap about fan base anymore, i thought he cared about loyalty, change, his true fans, he doesnt need any more millions. he has the freedom to be completely what he's about.

But oh, now u say, that doesnt make good business sense?

the performance proved, in my opinion, he was pandering to the lowest common demominator with P Rain songs.

Fans will buy the album. end of. no need to promote that much. Prince needs to make a choice, because as far as Im concerned, there is too much flip floping, confusing messages and actions from prince that dont add up, and in the end, its the loyal fans that are getting confused.

Why does prince all of a sudden give a shit about album sales?? I thought he didnt like much on his radio? or was he just sayin that because at that time radio didnt like him and he was being spiteful?

Now all of a sudden, he loves the big wheels of commercial industry? why? I thought prince was just about the music. if u like it, buy it. if u dont so what?

Thats why i like the guy more than anything. but watching this calculated attempt to be relevant.. why? who cares? prince is how old? i thought it was about the music, and music only now? why does he feel the need for new fans? make sure his album is no.1? Why? who cares!! just because its a big seller doesnt make it a good album. plenty of shit albums and songs make no.1 in the charts, usually for that reason, they are shit and commercial.

u rarely get serious, deep music in the charts - it goes over the masses heads. hell even mozart wasnt recognised in his day, but he was true to himself. he stuck with the idea of making music HE liked and sod everyone else, and died a poor man. But ppl who really knew their stuff appreciated mozart.

Prince should consider either being true to himself or pandering to fans that dont really know him but make him money.

trying to do both IS a cop out, not clever, and will do more harm than good. I've been a loyal prince fan and collector for years and im not as happy as i have been with prince because of that performance.

i think it said alot about overriding priorites about being successful, being relevant, trying to make a hit, makin money (or as metalorange calls it good business sense) and not being as true to himself as before, and undermined the quality of his new album.

this for me, on this priniciple, is a bit of a shame for me. While others may not mind or notice this, it has bothered me some.

PurpleHouse said:

I can't disagree that Prince is a flip-flopper. After being a fan for a while, you get used to it. It's not like he's a politician and lives rest on the policy he chooses. As I said before, Prince once said he was basically gonna retire - thankfully he flip-flopped so that we got all the music since. It sounds like you would respect him more if he'd kept to this promise, whereas I preferred getting the music! Same with the Brits, I'm glad everytime I get to hear PR and LGC because quite simply I enjoy them that much.

"I got 2 sides and they're both friends" Prince once sang, and it is very true - one minute he only cares about his hardcore fans and disses the music industry - the next he's trying to capture a wider audience and play the music industry game. To me, that's just Prince, one of the many things that make him interesting, and certainly not enough to put me off his music.

An open letter:

Prince,

This is your career. These are your songs. You are the one who risks being gutted by the press and fans for every public performance, appearance and artistic or business decision you make.

For these reasons and more, I hope you will continue to do the things, live the way and create in the manner that seems right to you. If this means you occasionally, or even often, feel the need to change direction, "backpedal" or act counter to others' wishes, do it with a clear conscience and my blessing.

Peace, David

Saw it finally last night, it was pretty good but I had to take few listens before these versions started to sunk in. I am always surprised how he can always find new ways not to have to play his classics live when he's playing them, as was the case with "Let's Go Crazy" again.

Oh yes, and he WASN'T wearing his wedding RING. I noticed.

thebige said:

That was nearly 20 years ago. Prince was in the later stages of his peak period at that point.

I don't believe he is playing it safe today. I believe he is no longer capable of producing the quality of material he did up to and including SOTT. If Prince could write another Purple Rain, he would. He's just not able to. Those days are gone.

We should view the Brits performance with this in mind.

fathermcmeekle said:

Well, I wholeheartedly disagree. I believe he is capable of producing material up to that quality and he has, but in more limited doses. There are a lot of Prince recordings produced post '87 that I listen to far more frequently than material from this supposed "later stage of his peak period". I think that if someone feels that Prince peaked 20 years ago they haven't been paying attention. But then again, I'm usually in a minority of one when it comes to my opinions on where Prince has gone right and where he has gone wrong. How many of the rest of you feel that he peaked so long ago? Nevermind. I saw the thread about Prince's worst periods, in the opinions of the board members. It really read as a sad reflection of the Prince fanbase on this board. A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away I thought, "Prince.org, there's where my peeps will be." But the more I try to take part around here, the more alone I feel! But I guess maybe it's a testament to the diverse nature of Prince's fanbase, and it speaks to why it's hard for the old boy to please everyone. But to say Prince peaked 20 years ago? That's just ignorance.

metalorange said a few things like:



A few comments in reply:


A) Yes. It would have been unquestionably, without a doubt, better.

B) I actually don't know anyone off of this board who liked the Grammy performance or who regard 2004 as any kind of comeback for Prince. Regular folk (non Prince album buying people) and non-Prince.org Prince fans alike have all come to me asking, "Why is he playing those old songs? And what is he doing letting Beyonce up there?" Seriously. I'm not exaggerating. Outside of this little bubble that is Prince.org the perception of Prince is quite different. If any appearance from that year made a positive impression, it was that R'n'R HoF "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" performance. I hear lots of positive stuff about that to this day, but no-one off of this board ever uses the word "comeback".

C) This statement is completely ludicrous. To even suggest that John Blackwell (for example) was at the same level in the beginning of his tenure with Prince as the new drummer Cora is now, and that he got that much better just through time spent playing in that line-up, is ridiculous. You must be either a non-musician, or a poor judge of a musician's skills, or both. That particular band was skilled. And, I might add, under-utilized.

D) Actually if you look around here you'll see that the majority of the so-called "hardcore" Prince fans around here are defending and cheering the performance and song selection. It is a minority of people who are disappointed in ol' P. And to be clear, the issue isn't whether or not Prince should play older material in concert. The issue is whether Prince should use older material to sell his current material. It's that simple. Obviously a majority of people around here seem to view Prince as far past his prime (remind me how this makes someone a "hardcore" Prince fan?) but I strongly doubt that Prince sees himself that way. Therefore he shouldn't present himself that way.


I think that's all I have to say...


...for now.

Whoops! Double post!


[Edited 2/28/06 15:01pm]

thebige said:[quote]metalorange said a few things like:





Ahh, the less is more argument. Personally I believe more is more.



I remember plenty of people on here were very impressed by Prince's performance at the Grammy's, but those threads were a longtime back so it is impossible to prove. Of course Prince's guitar solo was magnificent - but remember he also played Let's Go Crazy, Sign O' The Times and Kiss. Both those widely watched performances brought the punters in enough for Prince to sell out arenas for the first time in many years. They didn't go, "Oh, he's playing his old hits, let's NOT go..." It was a 'commercial' comeback if nothing else. I didn't hear about him making $50 million on his ONA tour or Hit n' Run tour before that - and he played a lot of hits on that Hit n' Run tour, it's just that he didn't have the exposure of the Grammy's and Hall of Fame to make a big arena tour viable. The proof is in the pudding.



All I was saying was that a band becomes tighter over time, don't dismiss them on the basis of their first 2 tv performances. Whether they were as good as previous members at the same time in their career, I can't say, but it doesn't matter - that band seems to be gone, get over it. That's just how Prince works, don't blame the messenger. I'm sure they'll work out fine in the end.



That's one issue. Another one being argued is whether there is anything wrong with Prince performing his classic hits for the umpteenth time, whether he should be ashamed of going back on his promises, whether casual fans want to see new material more than they want to see the hits they know Prince for, etc etc.

metalorange said:

You're definitely taking the cake for fam of the week! A) It's not the "less is more" argument. It's the "new songs to promote a new album" argument. Pay attention. B) Once again, pay attention. I'm talking about the world that exists off of this board, none of which has ever said anything positive to me about his Grammy's appearance or his set at the R'n'R HoF. Only the G. Harrison tune gets the mention. Selling out arenas and making however much does not make a comeback. It was more like pulling a fast one. It was called the "Musicology" tour, yet was a greatest hits tour. Which of course was what the peeps came out for, and which fact Prince knew, hence the whole cd sales wrapped up in ticket sales scam. Again, pulling a fast one. A comeback would constitute public acceptance of his latest album at minimum, maybe even a few charting singles, and a tour which paid more than lip service to the newest record. C) I never dismissed the new band. I was surprised and disappointed that he never utilized the last band to its fullest potential. It's called having a critical opinion, look it up. I look forward to Prince's next album in 2008, to be promoted by a big tv appearance featuring "Purple Rain" and "Let's Go Crazy" yet again, and the resulting fam defense of said acts here on the board. See ya then!!

thebige said:

Woo hoo! What do I win?... Oh, you said, a cake.

Hey, I'm as critical of Prince as the next fan (I didn't particularly like his outfit - I think it was probably the worst since that Septimo performance) but I feel I have to respond when an argument disregards logic or is presented from a very narrow point of view, such as purely from the US perspective.



Pay attention indeed. He did play 2 new songs to promote the album. He could easily have not done them at all, just played hits and still had a rapturous applause. But kudos to him, he played 2 new songs.



I can't speak about the response of my non-Prince fan friends - because the Grammy performance wasn't shown over here in the UK. Neither was the Rock n' Roll Hall of Fame performance. Is it possible that the UK audience would respond to Prince differently than a USA one? Of course it is, we don't get to see him as often. In fact, the general public in the UK has never seen him peform PR and LGC on TV other than a showing of Livesexy back in 1988 and the rarely shown Purple Rain movie itself! We simply don't get all these tv programs he has performed on in the USA over the years.

Whatever you thought of the Grammy's performance, it undeniably was the first step in reawakening the US masses that Prince was still around and still on top of his game, which led onto the many sold out arenas. I think Prince wanted a similar effect over here in the UK, and that is why the performance was similar in that he played PR and LGC again.



I said it was a 'commercial comeback'. You can't argue that he visibly started earning bucket loads of money for the first time in a long spell. He used to earn lots of money, then earnt less, then earnt lots again. That by definition is a comeback, coming back to a place where he earns lots of money again.



Musicology (the album) went to number 3 in the US charts before the ticket/CD thing even kicked in. It went onto sell over a million copies not including the ticket/CD bundle. It also went to number 3, I think, in the UK charts with no ticket/CD bundle. It is actually one of his biggest selling albums in a longtime. That is all FACT, not opinion. I think that proves public acceptance of Musicology at least and therefore satisfies your 'comeback' criteria.



That's your opinion, personally I think he did a lot with that band. Two tours (ONA/Musicology) and bandmates played on many releases, including TRC, ONA live (of course!) NEWS, Xpectation, C-NOTE. That's lot of input for one of Prince's bands, what more do you want? They were a very jazz-orientated band, personally I'll be glad if this new band moves away from that jazz sound for a while.
[Edited 3/1/06 6:25am]

fathermcmeekle said:

And I taped mine on the brass cylinder deck on my ten very up-to-the-cutting-edge-minute stereogram which, dagnabbit, now won't fit in my DVD absorber. Lousy outdated technologies.
Luckily it plays in my head just fine

Yet Another Open Letter To Prince

Hi Prince,
Of course I want to say how much I (blah blah) your music and talent etc..(goes on a bit for about two paragraphs) but also I wanted to ask you a favour:
To save me a lot of time fumbling around with all the Prince things I have in different formats like DVD, CD, CD-Rom, DVD-vinyl and Memory-chips...an ting, could I come over to your house and compile a Blu-Ray Double Layer DVD of everything. I'll pay you per track.

Next Wednesday would be fine.

Ta,

Your Top Fan

X$X

Quite right. It's almost as silly as telling a twenty-year-old virgin that the peak sexual performance age for guys is 19.

thebige said:

Has he grown?

Oh and check those gold dancers Kanye had so completely stolen out of the "Violet the Organ Grinder" video!

Noone else had commented on that had they?

AzurePanther said:

I'm sure Prince wasn't the first person to have gold dancers on screen!

Did i see they are going to repeat the Brit awards on saterday nite in Ontario, canada?

Can someone concur..I will have to set my VCR

ConsciousContact said:

See that's were you're wrong Prince was the first person to do everything, infact everybody else had silver dancers

Novabreaker said:

excessex said:

Prince's time was 1999 thro' SOTT. Just because you liked a couple of songs since then doesn't change that fact.

It's okay to say he's peaked, it's happened to the best of them. No-one stays at the very top forever.

Except maybe, Sir Cliff....

It was a great per4mance! nice 2 Prince, Wendy, Lisa & Sheila E 2gether again

fathermcmeekle said:

Sure it's ok to say, but it's still just an opinion and not a fact. My opinion is simply different than yours.

thebige said:

I hear you!

Say, how are the cuckoos up your way.....

Thanks to housequake for posting the Video...

I actually liked Tiamo..(the video bored me to tears)
Fury was kick ass....Purple rain was awsome as well,,but after that it went downhill (imo)
WHY did he kiss Tamar on the cheek?...it should have been wendy!

& why always a PURPLE RAIN MEDLEY???? Its getting old. why not SOTT? one of my all time favs~~

There's more to Prince than Purple rain..

If was a very solid performance & a great version of PR ,some great guitar work & although ive seen better from him he always blows me away ..... i must admit his little squawk (which he's done loads of times i know) i didnt like & i would have prefered to here the real version of LGC .

It was just great to see him there!!

Ok, I have had a chance to watch the performance several times since my initial viewing. I must say that overall the performance was very enjoyable. I guess I had to let it marinate. I even enjoyed TAC. I still have a few grips.
First, I wish he had performed Fury the way he did on SNL.Second, I didn't like the squawking noise during LGC. Third, I hated his outfit. He should have worn one of his suits, perhaps the one he had on at the soundcheck.


The ladies are so hot. They add a little spice to his performance. I love their choreography.

As far as P singing some of his hits, I don't see what the problem is. I mean damn, the man has to eat. I can only imagine how large his payroll has to be with all the people he employs. I don't know how much money he makes from his back catalogue, but it probably in no way compares to what he could be making if he had few hit album under his belt over the past decade, moving millions of albums. So, if he wants to so-called pander to the masses, then let him do it without being criticized. Everyone needs their ego stroked every now. Prince cares about being appreciated. He cares about what people thinks of him. Nothing wrong with that. The man is human afterall.
[Edited 3/5/06 16:52pm]

You're so right, Father.
I'm off to cliff.org to check out the man whose commitment to lyrics free from swearing and sexual innuendo has been consistent since my granny was a teenage hooker.
No more shall I follow false prophets like Prince.
I mean...he went on for ages about 'May you live to see the dawn' and after all that it turned out to be a really useless intro track on one of his most useless LP's. Erm...I can't remember which one.

PLUS- I don't think Prince will be getting knighted by the Queen, will he?

Hail Sir Cliff!
Because these 'Miss you' nights are the longest

fathermcmeekle said:

His Performance was EXCELLENT! The whole band was EXCELLENT what a COOL PERFORMANCe and Tonite is SNL REPEAT....