PurpleHouse said:

Prince has never said directly he would never play his old hits again, although of course that was clearly stated on promotion for the Musicology tour. When pushed on the Jay Leno show as to which songs he'd miss playing most, eventually he said 'Purple Rain'. What this shows is 1. that he wasn't really comfortable with that whole 'hits for the last time' business at that point and 2. that he ENJOYS playing Purple Rain, it is not necessarily such a chore to play this classic.

As you say, Prince usually does what HE wants to do. So isn't it possible he wanted to do Purple Rain and LGC? No one forced him into doing a hit/Purple Rain laden set-list for his last tour. What you could conclude is that 'where he's at' right now is enjoying and embracing those songs.

As for crowdpleasing, you say it like it is a bad thing. Prince pleasing the crowd? The horror! Where will it end? With everyone going home from his concerts happy I shouldn't wonder, tut tut.

Incidently, none of my comments have been personal attacks on anyone, I'm merely discussing the comments made and adding my responses - it's called a discussion. I hardly think that merits calling me a tw*t as you did earlier.

murph said:

Firstly dont call my logic naive because it isnt. Im not talking about Paul McCartney, and besides, he's BRITISH and for goodness sake u cant compare the 2!!!!


Secondly I never intended it to be logic applied to anyone else. Im talking about Prince, what HE.. HE NOT ME has said in interviews (how else do u know, i dont phone and call him.. do u?) etc. im just saying it's not what i expected from him. why is that simple idea so hard for u to crasp.

I dont mean cop out in a really negative tone. i just know how else to describe a cop-out when i see one. its an opinion. I know prince changes his mind a lot, he's a flip flopper. one minute he swears, next he doesnt. One minute he has a red dot on his forhead and loves hindu scriptures, next he's a jahova talking about knowledge trees, apples, peach pears and plums!


thats how the guy is. he is excentric. but i've always admired him because he does want he wants and i rate him for that. going back to Prince, after claiming being the squiggle was a one way ticket.. what r we left with as fans.

we just have to take it on the chin, and get ridiculed from my mates and worse i have no answer to his decisions. their HIS decisions and ordinary ppl dont understand. But i have been a fan for years and i do my best to understand, and accept, and investigate what is happening.

If prince becomes some obscure indie band in ppl's minds, that is the fault of prince and what he wants. He alienated lots of fans by his own free will. dont tell me what I want prince to turn into. he can do what he wants, i dont care.


Im just saying what i THOUGHT i saw, who knows, i could be wrong. i dont know why U guys are the ppl getting so hung up on that one word.

AND - Im not the one with flawed logic. prince is the flip flopper, not me and u dont like it when i point it out.

Do i accept his desision at the Brits? Yes. i accept it, i just didnt like it. But thats not for prince to worry about little old me. Im sure he had his reasons.

I still havent changed my opinion, and after all thats why i like the guy, he does what he wants!!

and dont tell me what to accept. IM not asking u to accept my opinion. Im merely voicing one, and ur trying to trash me.

And thanks for the triple JD but u can have it, for telling me that audience's love old hits. THATS WHAT IM SAYING TOO! and again ur saying what im saying with and quote:

"The difference being that one audiance (The Brits) clearly needed a "remember me" kick in the ass and the other (Saturday Night Live-----American, dog) clearly didn't because of the US success of the Musicology tour...It's the music industry guys, you give a little to take a little..."

So ur admitting prince did exactly what I said and for the same reasons. Here have another triple. the only diff is that u dont call it a cop out. Im calling it a cop out because of what Prince HIMSELF has said before, not me, and because prince has alienated his fans before, and usually never gives a crap about this commercial bollocks. if he wanted commercial, he would have been WB's bootlicker and would not have made himself knowingly look like a wierd guy in the eye of the general public.

Look, u cant go back on urself and not expect a little criticism. he's not God u know.

which again, is why at the end of the day, whose happy? prince. and a happy audience. But I have lost a little respect for a guy u flip flops a little too much, and on issues which i thought were really important to him. its my personal opinion and he's a hard guy to keep up with and accept at the best of times.

it was playing to the crowd, u admit it, but u dont see anything wrong with that. I have a slight problem with that. end of

im just tryin to have an informed discussion with backed up opinions with other fans. i dont mean to ever be rude but its hard when ppl just pounce on what u say and give u an ear full,and then call it "stuff" when i tried to defend myself.

it was still a good performance, i just didnt like the choice of songs as much as u. and u cant put me down for having an opinion, and u cant change my opinion unless u can debate better than that and persuade me otherwise! And I dont suggest u do anything, and dont tell me to either.


Im saying what i thought i saw, and maybe Prince did do the right thing considering it was a UK Brit Award audience, i dont know. it was definately strategic, and prince usually doesnt bother with commercial strategy.


And indeed, he has seemed to care more about commerical strategy recently, I have noticed that, with Musicology. but thats a matter of opinion. Maybe im behind against fans who are obviously more hardcore than me! at the end of the day, criticism isnt nice but we should be free to do it. we're fams.

the amount of times I have seen TRC trashed on this site by fams. I thought it was a musical pop masterpiece. I had to sit there and see that album get torn to shreads by fans. Then again I didnt like Musicology. there u go.

its an OPINION. we should be free to have one without being called naive.



Now.. No more hugs for u!

LisasBrush said:

s glad you saw it finally

PurpleHouse said:

Do you have two different screen names?...I thought I was speaking to Seekay....
[Edited 2/21/06 14:29pm]

seekay said:

Cute...so I guess it is you....
[Edited 2/21/06 14:36pm]

At what stage does Prince play in the Brits award show
The beginning, middle or end?.
If you want you can orgnote me

myobty said:

There's the Kaiser Chiefs who open; then there's I think 2 awards, the second is Lemar winning best Urban act or something; then immediately it is Prince.

I really liked the bit during 'Purple Rain' when they cut to Joss Stone watching from the audience. It was exactly like the cuts they do in the movie when everybody's getting all emotional.

An ting.

As for all the arguments above in this thread, I just couldn't be bothered reading and/or commenting.

You just did!

What?

You commented!

No I didn't.

Yes you MF did, you MF.

SNIP

excessex said:

Yes. I apologise on my behalf, for my unnecessary rants. good call.

Heiress said:

Agreed.

Actually, the mention/comparison of Paul McCartney's appearance at the Grammys, I think, is kind of relevant even if it's an inverse kind of thing. Both Macca and P have, in recent years, stolen pole position on annual tour income. I think Macca came out of nowhere to No.1 in 03 as Prince did last year in the States.
Both, according to the media, are staging comebacks even though they've never been anywhere in the meantime and both occupy the same kind of rarified category of 'living legends who if they don't lift another finger are secure as living legends..erm...until they die, after which they'll be...erm...

Anyway, as I was saying before I so rudely confused myself, there are some comparisons here (although personally I've now forgotten what they were due to this posting going on and on a bit) and both Prince and Paul are using Awards ceremonies to grab the attention of what I'd call 'music consumers who are not particular fans of anybody'
This includes people who were once fanatic completists who, due to child-rearing fetishes have no budget for their former obsessions. So tricks like turning up at the Brits and singing Yesterday with Jay-Z are the chief way to cut right through into the gossip-obsessed dailies.

By the way, I didn't spot any items on either of these two in the days that followed their appearances, so I guess that aspect failed but I notice that Prince-Very Best Of is in the lower part of Billboard Hot 100 and Macca's LP is stable there if not moving upward.

But I did sense some desperation on the part of both of them, even if Macca's was rather more creative. In particular did anybody notice Prince doing that tired old routine of licking his fingers and 'combing his hair, while giving his guitar a stroke? He almost looked as if he was embarassed doing it.

Still, nice to see he's hanging out with lesbians again.

that performance only meant one thing.

wendy and lisa are not lesbians anymore.

glad to know.

Only Morrissey fans come close to Prince fans for the sublime to ridiculous.

"...for a UK audience...over their heads..." etc etc


I actually thought he kicked ass. First time he's done a UK performance in a long time and not gone out of his way to be difficult/weird etc. He just came on and played some great guitar.

As for the UK audience not getting Prince, I think some people forget that he was absolutely MASSIVE here for a long time, especially during what was deemed to be his wilderness years Stateside (mid to end of 80s). A lot of people know who Wendy & Lisa and Sheila E are. Jeez, Round about Lovesexy time Prince more or less had the keys to the UK. Remeber the big deal of Lovesexy Live being broadcast all over Europe?

I think his choice of older stuff, combined with Sheila et al was a nod to the Lovesexy peak (PR & LGC were pretty much done in the Lovesexy Live style).

Get him over for a tour : )

williammelvinhicks said:

Yep...

Thank you metalorange.

I'm not so sure that was the case. I can't remember where but I read a very depthful piece recently which reminded everyone that Prince's period of, as you've called it, having 'the keys to the UK', was, more or less an infatuation of the music press which wasn't reflected in his album sales ('Lovesexy' didn't sell well) or ticket sales 'Sign Of The Times' at Wembley was cancelled!
The Lovesexy Live concert was on Channel 4 on a Sunday in the days when Channel 4 had an audience of thousands especially on sunday mornings.
Prince's success in the UK was mostly critical success and the success (better than any other?) which involves influencing people directly and indirectly.
Unlike with the States this critical success never translated into big sales.

Prince's first and only UK number one was 'The Most Beautiful Girl' and is amongst those number ones with the fewest sales.

williammelvinhicks said:

Or, better still, Prince might no longer be a bigoted sectarianist Christian of the kind that's 'goin' to the promised land where cars don't pollute and McD's don't make u fat' but is compassionate enuf to spare a thought for the poor 'sinners' who decided they just HAD to be different and can't stick with reading the same book everyday.

An ting

seekay said:

excessex said:

I would agree with you on all that (though I would just add that the Lovesexy show was also broadcast on the Friday night before the Sunday morning repeat) But I believe Prince has still had 6 number one albums in the UK...? Also, he had record runs of sold-out concerts at Wembley, what was it, 13? I believe that practically every concert he's done in the UK has been a sell-out, from Lovesexy right through to the present. So you can conclude there are a lot of people who appreciate him in the UK, especially his live reputation, even if that hasn't quite transmitted into sales.

Don't get me wrong..I'm just saying that the success of Purple Rain in the mid-eighties followed by critical apotheoisis and the over-infatuation of the UK press that P had in the late 80's has led to the 'ever-since anti-climax', which is like the infatuation, a press-invention which is mailnly the result of there being too many lazy gossip journalists who can fing nothing in the files other than 'Prince-big in the eighties. Went weird in the 90's.' and to whom the next album will always be a comeback

But let's not say his sales were a lot better in the good old days.
Prince always had his hardcore who would make singles enter high in the charts and would be leading the sales of albums and it is only because those lot no longer buy ANY singles that he isn't entering the charts these days.

I predict though that via the download he will return to this kind of more 'newsworthy' position even if his overall sales don't go up.

Plus you were totally right about the friday night for Lovesexy Live.
They just don't do live specials like that any more. Erm...except, obviously, your @Live 8', 'Glasto', 'V' and hundreds of t'others

metalorange said:

ian said:

And it's all TRUE too.
Apparently.

excessex said:

As I said, I still think Prince's live ticket sales have been very solid throughout, I don't know why it is that people come out to see him in their droves and yet don't go on to buy the albums, but that seems to be what happens.

But yep, I agree with you on everything else. I'm particularly interested to see how Prince does in the download charts now that he's selling on such as Itunes and not just privately through the npgmc. Prince seems to have a massive online presence, as exhibited on the Org, so you would think that might transmit into download chart positions...

I've never been able to get a ticket for Prince. Not even been able to get through to be told they're sold out.
Actually...that's not quite true...and here's where I disgust half the org AND myself.
Courtesy of a connected fiend in the know I got into the afterparty at Bagley's that ended up being a video during the Prince-had-a-shop-on-Chalk-Farm-Road period BUT...(trembles at the memory)
It was TOO HOT for me and he took TOO LONG to turn up and when the big guy at the door said 'You can go out but you won't be gettin' back in, I catulayy took him up on the offer.

Erm...Doh!


metalorange said:[quote]
I still think Prince's live ticket sales have been very solid throughout [quote]

excessex said:

Well, I've rung up for tickets as soon as they've been announced - and still ended up right at the back of an arena! I saw a Nude tour at Wembley Arena, A D&P show at Earl's Court, and a Jam of the Year tour at Wembley again. All of them were packed out! I also managed to get into 2 aftershows - that was just a case of getting there early and queuing.

That's been one of the greatest benefits of joining the npgmc - getting guaranteed seating up front for 2 ONA shows at Manchester!

excessex said:

Yeah, I still have both versions of Wired - Sunday's version didn't include Anna Stesia amongst others.

Can I also add, excessex, both the Lovesexy and Nude tours hold the record for most nights sold out at Wembley Arena (Nude tour a staggering 22 nights).

excessex said:

I still have the taping that I recorded off the telly on one tape, unlike the released version that was split over two cassettes. I even paused it at the breaks! Aren't I clever?

Pity I taped it on betamax.....

Finally saw the performance...

Overall sounded good... "Te Amo..." sounded better to me live than the studio version... Cool seeing Sheila take the drums for "Purple Rain", and seeing Wendy playing the opening chords...

But it is funny how it took exactly two appearances for him to go back on the whole "retiring the hits" thing! This reminds me of when I saw him in '95 and he was all about "Prince is dead!" Then I saw him in '97 and he was all about "Just kidding! Which one do you want to hear? How about a medley?" I think it is a bit "fam"-ish to defend him playing the hits. It is a cop out for him to use those songs in that fashion, no matter how you want to paint it. If Prince needs to display his relevance to the UK he should do it with new material. And please stop claiming that he's never said he was retiring the hits. All of 2004 was sold on that claim. Wasn't that how he justified not playing very much new material? And then his second appearance out in 2006 he plays two of his biggest tunes? Come on...

Remember when he busted in the MTV awards in '87 with two full new songs in an incredible live performance, and not a drop of any previous hit? I miss those days, when Prince would come strong with a new album, a new stage show, a new look. Now it seems that Prince lacks the confidence in his new material. He's been playing it safe for so long now (aside from the One Nite Alone Tour).

And understand me please, I do think Prince is capable of throwing down some new material which would shake people up. I felt shaken when he busted out "Fury" on SNL last week. He should stand firmly in the present, something he used to do, and which made him such an innovator back in the day.

I'm sad he's totally changed up his band as well. He should have utilized the band that is on N.E.W.S. and One Nite Alone Live on his new project, and on his new tour. That was a band! But then again, if he wasn't going to use them on Musicology I guess it's a moot point.

"Te Amo Corazon" :: Liked it better live, studio version left me a bit cold... Maybe should have taken this into "Black Sweat" or, even better, another new tune...
"Fury" :: Still liking this tune. Love it when Prince comes with the guitar. Should've played a full version as the closer.
"Purple Rain" :: Interesting only for novelty reasons, like Wendy playing the opening chords, Sheila E kicking it on the drums, etc. Sure the song sounded good, but we all knew that it would anyways. He's only had 23 years now to perfect it. Used in this setting it definitely cost Prince some credibility, though not as much as the Grammy performance maybe.
"Let's Go Crazy" :: Pretty pointless. Resorting to a lowest common denominator, safe, "big" ending. He should've made his big point with a "Fury" closer.

Don't hate on me because I'm a bit critical. I see a few here also wish he would just play the new material and not go for the obvious hits, especially after the way he sold himself in 2004. It was pretty weak that his set in 2004 had so many oldies in it, and he tried to justify it with the whole "retiring the hits" line (which we all knew wouldn't really be true), but it's especially weak in 2006. It's funny because I was telling my girlfriend about a month or two ago about how there was a new Prince record coming out, to be followed by a tour, and that we would see if Prince lived up to dropping the hits. And second time out on TV, bam! You want the hits, you got 'em baby!!

Now back to your regularly scheduled program of justifications for Prince using 20+ year old material to stake out his current relevance...

metalorange said:

At the Sheffield Arena in 1995 it was visually half full (around 12,000 full), with people walking out pretty early when he started rapping on 'days of wild' and 'now'.

I probably shouldn't say anything more after all I've posted, but I couldn't resist!:


He did play new material - the first 2 songs. That keeps getting put to one side. He had nearly 12 minutes - not so much a medley, more 4 individual songs. The problem seems to be that PR and LGC completely overshadowed his new material. All you can say about that is Prince should write some material that is comparable and won't be overshadowed.

I still don't see why Prince overturning one of his own decisions is such a stumbling point. As you yourself has said, he has done this many times in the past and you even expected he wouldn't follow it through - so what's the problem? I'd like to add that of the Musicology tour never made it outside of the US and Canada - the general public over here never heard he was going to retire his hits, neither did they get a chance to hear them played 'for the last time'. Perhaps he will never play them in the US again - that way he would fulfill his promise.

As I keep pointing out, in a 12 minute slot he DID play new material. In addition he played 2 old hits. If he had been given 6 minutes and only played the first 2 songs, would that somehow have been better? Think of PR and LGC as an extra freebie.

I didn't see Americans complaining when he opened the Grammy's with PR, Baby I'm a Star and LGC, in fact everyone was raving about it and kick-started his 'comeback' - unless you think he would have got the same reaction if he'd gone on and played 'Musicology' only? Would he have lots of credibility or would people be going, I wish he'd play his old stuff, this new material is so much weaker. Credibility amongst hardcore fans, yes, not amongst the general public.

Prince changes his band every couple of years. As a fan you get used to it. That band was only so good because it had played together for so long, when it first started out everyone had the same question marks about them that the new band has. In a couple of years Prince will get rid of this band and everyone will be going 'Oh, I really liked that band, they were tight!'

Before you say it, I'm not hating, just responding with comments!
A few on here - you mean hardcore fans on a Prince fan website? Of course the majority here are going to want him to play new material over old material they've heard in concerts for 20 years. But the general public, which includes a whole new generation of kids who have never seen the hits performed live, prefer to see a show where they know the music and can sing along. Prince did essentially a fan tour (ONA tour) and then did one for the general public - of the USA. And of course he used it to earn money - we all like to earn money! Whether he will next take a hits tour to the rest of the world, I don't know. Certainly I was actually hoping he would do the Musicology tour here in the UK because I had several non-Prince friends who said they'd like to come 'as long as he plays stuff I know'!

In truth, every tour he's ever done (barring the Gold Experience tour) has had a scattering of oldies in it at the very least.

Fact is, to the general public, that IS what he is best known for and what still draws people to his live shows.

spoida said:

Well, I said 'practically' every concert! Certainly all the 5 concerts I've seen over the years were full.

The Gold Experience tour was one of the few times when Prince refused to play the htis - it proves my point that if Prince only played new material and none of the hits, he would quickly lose his audience and just be left with a relatively small group of hardcore fans at his concerts. I'm sure there are many hardcore fans on here that want that to happen, but from a money-making music business point-of-view, it doesn't make sense.

thebige said:

Obviously, I couldnt agree more with this post.

Nuff said.