I dont think the vault is as full as P would have us believe. I reckon nearly everything he has written can be found either legitimately or bootlegged. I will even go as far as saying that P himself 'leaks' the bootlegs into the market.

Especially during the WB days when they restricted how much he could release.

Anyway, just my opinion. Dont get me wrong though, im not taking anything away from the man. I mean there is a hell of a lot of stuff out there. I have something like 60 odd CDs of 'unreleased' stuff. Thats a pretty damn fine number to write home about. And Im sure there is more.

I agree JonnyBoyRebel -

I think the legend of The Vault was created to keep fans intrigued with Prince . . .

Now, when it seems like it would be a good time to start dipping into The Vault, he isn't really. Why?

Because maybe there's not as much stuff in there as he claims! Sure, there might be 10 versions of Days Of Wild, but how about just ONE album full of deep grooves (stuff we have NEVER heard)?

I've always wondered how many of these unreleased songs are circulating among fans. And are these songs the "cream of the crop" or does he have many more outstanding songs that we've never heard? Will we ever get the chance to hear all this stuff in our lifetime?

Probably there's a lot more, but is it interesting material, Prince wrote damn good song, which he never released. Most of the unreleased outtakes are way better then he released officially over the last few years, but a lot of stuff ain't interesting at all. In my opinion did he lost the touch for good material after 1994/1995. The gold priod was the last real good show and the period with the real nice material he's wrote, but hey, it's only me saying this.

style
www.paisleyparkvault.com

Well you probably get an ideo of the unreleased circulating / non-circulating ratio when you look at the last pages of the DMSR book. Those were pretty accurately documented and if they're correct Prince really wouldn't have had time to make much more material than those documetned songs because the dates were so fully booked. Unless of course he would have engineered the sessions himself at his basement studio or recorded stuff with a boombox and an acoustic guitar or something.

Say, 70% of the unreleased material is already well circulating?

So I agree, the 1100+ unreleased songs is a bit bull. The number in Prince's words went up from 500 to 1000 in the course of few years on the first half of the 90's, so I bet his ass is a bit contradictory.

?
[This message was edited Wed Feb 26 1:22:21 PST 2003 by IstenSzek]

If it is really there, why haven't we heard it? After all, he's free to release it isn't he?

yeah fogeddaboutit,

Prince will NEVER release vault-material!

He is FREE, yet he chooses not 2 release vault-stuff,

why?

cuz:

"Y should eye do that when eye can do this?" - Prince
[This message was edited Mon Jul 8 5:44:04 PDT 2002 by talk2thejay]

?
[This message was edited Wed Feb 26 1:22:40 PST 2003 by IstenSzek]

IstenSzek said:

Are you talking about the chat they held right before year 2 of NPGMC? That room they created was incredibly easy to hack, I and apparently several others were signing in as Prince and a bunch of other goofy names like Janet Jackson and Martha Stewart.

If that was the case I'd be leary of any promises made in there.

The actual capacity of the vault is the real question here: it clearly exists because there are so many bootlegs. However he hasn't even released those songs which have been confirmed to exist.

Hi-fidelity sound is important to me and I do not wish to hear 'All My Dreams' unless I can hear a crystal clear version.


I implore Mr. Prince to release these recordings.

I agree with baldy up there...I think the vault exists, and probably houses hundreds of unreleased tracks(including cover versions like Madonna's "Like A Prayer")...but I also think the number of unreleased tracks in the vault has taken on myth-like proportions by fans over the years...used to be somewhere between 300-500 songs in the vault...now I keep hearing over 1,000...lol..not sure when the jump took place... 8)

femi, prince's engineer said at the celebration,
that he records about 5 new songs a day, when he
is in town!!!

wellbeyond said:

Damn,is there any way we can all BREAK into the vaults??

There IS a vault because my friend has seen it. I went to college with him & he went on to do some sound engineering at paisely park. He saw the vault only once & said it was like 'the library in Disney's Beauty & the Beast full of albums not singles'.

He didnt even like Prince before seeing the magnitude of his work

Lewis

No, the vault can't be a myth. There needs to be an archive, and Prince has been known to write a couple of songs - he himself said one song daily -- in a very short period. Now, it has not always been that way and probably isn't the case right now, but he has surely accumulated a great deal of material. A lot of it should be in demo form, but there's also lots of fully produced songs.

Why these songs haven't been released is probably due to a mix of factors :

- presumably, musicians who are on the song, depending on the official credits, would need to get paid. Just take the Miles stuff -- if Prince releases that, doesn't he have to give some money to Davis' estate? What about Wendy and Lisa and songs such as Teacher Teacher and All my dreams? Prince is very, very slow to pay old bandmates, and Bart was saying that some had recently taken him to court over that and ended up with a settlement worth less than the legal fees... So right there, I guess Prince thinks really hard before deciding to release an old track commercially.

- his more radical and restrictive religious beliefs probably mean some of the material is a little too risqué right now.

- he has more ambitious plans for some of the material - for instance, he might not be releasing Witness 4 the prosecution for a while, believing it could be part of an eventual Roadhouse Garden with the full cooperation and participation of Wendy and Lisa (don't hold your breath, but it seems he just doesn't want (or can't) release those songs properly without W and L). Likewise, he probably wants to do something comprehensive with whatever he has that has Miles Davis on it. He's NOT gonna release that as a NPGMC disc, because right now his whole operation is based on his hardcore fans, and that's not the way to reach the wider audience such releases would deserve or demand.

- Since some of the material should be in a stripped-down form, Prince would have to find the motivation to complete them or update the sound quality. However, he's always far more preoccupied by the music he's making right now and he likes spontaneity, so working on old songs is probably not his favorite thing. Sure, he'd do it if it was commercially viable, but he's enjoying his present creativity and wants to stay inspired that way, and not go back and spend months working on what must be almost ancient history, given all that has happened since, say, the Dream Factory days.
[This message was edited Mon Jul 8 9:11:04 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]
[This message was edited Mon Jul 8 9:44:49 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]

I've seen the Vault up close at the 2000 Celebration. There are tapes all over the place. All DAT tapes and cassette tapes. There were a few CDs on a desk, and I think there was a computer in there too.

It exists, and there is probably a lot of unfinished stuff, or unpolished at best. Think about how many times he pulled out Witness and We Can Funk and added this, re-arranged that, etc.

Plus, the live recordings (video and audio) are in there, so I hear.

absolutely...with Prince's changes of heart and mind, things become irrelevant and/or forgotten, and not completed/released...i, myself begin SO MANY songs and pieces, yet only COMPLETE 25% of them, because of constraints on time and interest...and I'm nowhere near P's output level...I have 2 have a day job...dammit!!!

One thing that bothers me about the possible Vault releases is that Prince might half-heartedly add parts and layers to old songs that don't need them. I especially dread profanities edits.

At the Toronto concert, Prince was given a book called Soulsville USA by his author, a renowned musicologist named Rob Bowman. There are few audiophiles more serious and knowledgable than Mr. Bowman. Well, from that man's perspective, the finished songs -- those that were once part of album configurations -- should ideally be treated in an archival manner. Which means that the songs should be released as is with minimal tweakings.

I wish Prince would take his place in music history more seriously and realize he owes it to himself and his true legacy to leave his old treasures unedited and intact. Many of the songs are from an era where he was known for being a fiery personification of libido, and to modify those songs to stamp that out is very intrusive from an artistic POV... like Michelangelo reopening the Sistine Chapel with painted clothes concealing the nudity.
[This message was edited Mon Jul 8 10:35:09 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]
[This message was edited Mon Jul 8 11:31:21 PDT 2002 by Aerogram]

Aerogram said:

His name is Rob Bowman actually.

Well we can always dream... maybe the Vault has 400+ songs that have never seen the light of day, just close your eyes and let your mind run free with what could be in there just waiting to get out and funk our ear drum's...

Maybe, just maybe it will all be free!!!

JonnyBoyRebel said:

Think this ranks up there with there with the "26 instruments Prince plays" myth?

TwiliteKid said:

Oooops... I should have checked back the name. One of my friends, who is a music journalist, knows him, but obviously I didn't quite catch his first name.

I was thinking the vault was a myth, until i heard Femi Jiya speak, and I talked to him one on one. Prince probably records about 3 songs a day when he's not touring or rehearsing. According to Femi, he cut the whole Batman album in 2 or 3 days.

both Femi and Joe (two current Prince sound engineers) looked at each other and agreed that there is too much for them to remember that Prince sticks in the vault.

The vault (according to them) was four times the size of studio B. and it was filled with stuff. If you believe them, bootlegers have only put out a fraction of what is in there.

Prince did not leak the outtakes on past boots, if you really dig for stories, you can find out some of the sources. (past band members, friends, past employees, personal car tapes, etc)

knowing prince there will b a lot of unreleased songs in that vault. anyway eye dont know how many songs this guy created in his life.is it not amazing.and say 70% is good if not great stuff.all genress of styles.eye like his new stuff eye really do most of u are still in his 80's music.and they were mindblowing. but his leatest releases 4 me are more intresting.maybe not groundbreaking (what grounds are there still 2 brake everything has been donne).they are more daring .and still different then the all the rest.if he still had his big industrie behind him believe me he will still the hottest and greatest artist .look at the charts this days.how borring its sounds all the same.microwave music.finished in 2 min.music from a bottle.eye think he save his greatest songs 4 the last.and after his dead people will open there eyes years and years later.how music sounded really like

The number of recordings in the vault might be in question, but the vault itself is no myth. Too many people that Prince has worked with in the past (and present) have attested to it. And as far as him leaking his own material for the bootleg market; it's pretty well known to a lot of people that some who used to work with Prince distributed them.

This sounds like an old episode of Seinfeld.

That is something. Now that I think about it
it makes alot of sense.
Its extremely refreshing to talk about something
as interesting as this for a change. (all the
insane posting about marriage & movie
theaters)

I think that if you look hard enough, you will notice that Prince is a myth perpetuated by Burt Reynolds.

Prince is the musical alter-ego of the multi-talented thespian, Burt Reynolds!

IceNine said:

which would then make o+> the musical alter-ego of the muti-talented Tom Selleck.