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PrintableAerogram said: I have no problem with accepting Wendy and Lisa's influence on Prince's music. I'm just a tad fed up with the one way street of W&L indluencing Prince so much, while it was him that gave them the chance to develop further within his music. I really don't see them writing Mountains without having been with Prince for a while. And when they went solo they did not take their success with them for too long. Whatver you think of their music, it had its main impact within Prince's. If they did write these songs or made those striking contributions, it was because he was there to incorporate it, within his overall vision. W&L did not make Prince. He made them and together they did beautiful music.
DAMN!!! That's the hammer hittin' the head of the nail right there. Of course Wendy and Lisa had an impact on Prince's music. They are two extremely talented musicians. But, this is what I don't understand about the fans who champion them so hard. If Prince was stealing ideas from them and obtaining the "biggest" hits of his career with them, why weren't they (or any other protege for that matter) as successful on their own? If there was anyone in his camp that was set anyone up to be stars in their own right, it was those two. | |
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gargamelgibson said: If Prince was stealing ideas from them and obtaining the "biggest" hits of his career with them, why weren't they (or any other protege for that matter) as successful on their own? If there was anyone in his camp that was set anyone up to be stars in their own right, it was those two.
You're proving my point again about taking an inch and making it a mile. No one claimed that W&L made Prince a star or that they gave him his hits. In fact, I'd posit that it was W&L that encouraged his experimental side. It seems to me pretty easy to see why they aren't pop hit makers own their own... W&L didn't exactly package themselves for the mainstream. Their own music was never really geared for a mass audience. The one time they DID do it, at the request of Columbia, garnered them a top 40 R&B hit, IIRC. I don't think it's any coincidence that Prince, himself, has generally become less experimental with music without them. Of course, the fact is that even though Prince is an immense genius he really didn't have a huge number of hits before or after them, either. So it's not really about taking anything away from anyone but more about being stronger together. It seems like the majority of 'fans' on this board continue to think that his mid-80's stuff with their influence is his best output. [Edited 1/17/06 20:17pm] | |
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gargamelgibson said: If Prince was stealing ideas from them and obtaining the "biggest" hits of his career with them, why weren't they (or any other protege for that matter) as successful on their own? If there was anyone in his camp that was set anyone up to be stars in their own right, it was those two.
Well, here is where alot of people are making a mistake. They are extremely successful on their own. They are 2 of the most sought after producers in the music industry today. As well as producing numerous artist, they score music for television shows and movies, winning an award for their music from the show "Crossing Jordan." They are two of the nicest, most down to earth people I have ever met, as well as being two of the most talented people to ever be on the music scene. They have no desire, nor ego, to be what some people consider "stars." They leave that up to people like Prince. If you don't believe they are successful, and the people most artists want in the studio with them, why don't you ask: Prince Neil Finn Trevor Horn Sheryl Crow Gwen Stefani Doyle Bramhall II Seal Nerina Pallot Eric Clapton Joni Mitchell Me'shell Ndegeocello Michael Penn Liz Phair Victoria Williams Suan Rogers The maker of the movies Toys, Dangerous Minds, and TV shows Crossing Jordan, Carnivale... The list can go on and on. I'm sure they would all concur. Make no mistake, they have their success. | |
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TheBatman said: The list can go on and on. I'm sure they would all concur.
Make no mistake, they have their success. I thought about bringing all that up but figured 'some people' will just be idiotic enough to claim they are leeching off the stars of others. LOL | |
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Prince wrote songs Like "large room with No Light" only when those 2 were around. That is one of his most amazing creations and I dare say he hasn't been that wildly colorful musically except in spots since they left. The 90s are largely a wasteland where you'd be hardpressed to find anything as brilliant as "Large Room".... 2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740 | |
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TheBatman said: gargamelgibson said: If Prince was stealing ideas from them and obtaining the "biggest" hits of his career with them, why weren't they (or any other protege for that matter) as successful on their own? If there was anyone in his camp that was set anyone up to be stars in their own right, it was those two.
Well, here is where alot of people are making a mistake. They are extremely successful on their own. They are 2 of the most sought after producers in the music industry today. As well as producing numerous artist, they score music for television shows and movies, winning an award for their music from the show "Crossing Jordan." They are two of the nicest, most down to earth people I have ever met, as well as being two of the most talented people to ever be on the music scene. They have no desire, nor ego, to be what some people consider "stars." They leave that up to people like Prince. If you don't believe they are successful, and the people most artists want in the studio with them, why don't you ask: Prince Neil Finn Trevor Horn Sheryl Crow Gwen Stefani Doyle Bramhall II Seal Nerina Pallot Eric Clapton Joni Mitchell Me'shell Ndegeocello Michael Penn Liz Phair Victoria Williams Suan Rogers The maker of the movies Toys, Dangerous Minds, and TV shows Crossing Jordan, Carnivale... The list can go on and on. I'm sure they would all concur. Make no mistake, they have their success. The kind of success we're talking about is pop stardom, obviously. Everyone knows W&L aren't playing folk songs in subways and are successful musicians and very respected at that. But that is just not the kind of success they once aimed for and the one they would have if they were really responsible for Prince's biggest hits. | |
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jtfolden said: dewalliz said: at least i admitted that wendy and lisa's contribution to atwiad and parade weren't embellished. even i know damn well that those two albums were been funkier and rockish if lisa and wendy wasn't around.
Yes, dewalliz agrees - no matter how much she hates the result - that W&L's contributions were not embellished. It's BeautifulFrance that seems to get so obsessed with the idea that he foams at the mouth 
Really, anyone who doubts this stuff can go back and check plenty of sources if you weren't there at the time. Such as the Rolling Stone interview from '86 with W&L where it was reported that W&L wrote Mountains and Sometimes It Snows In April. It was, also, reported by Wendy in the interview that Prince had given them general ideas about what he wanted and asked the girls to write songs (I believe this was in reference to the Dream Factory sessions and included tracks like Power Fantastic which was based on a composition by Lisa). I believe this was, also, the interview where Wendy made the statement that when the 3 of them were in the studio together, no one could top them musically. We can, also, view the Mtv interview with Prince, done on the set of Under The Cherry Moon, where he talks about the girls input and about how much better/faster recordings go at the time because of W&L. isnt funny prince started to lose his fans started with the albums that lisa and wendy contribute the most?
I'd argue that this is not true at all and I know from other posts of yours that you were not around at the time. I was... Prince himself talked about this very issue in a Rolling Stone interview of the period. He realized that the masses buying up Purple Rain were a one time thing and made the comment that the same loyal fans buying 1999 before PR were the ones buying ATWIAD, etc afterwards. ATWIAD, Parade, and SOTT (which all featured a lot of Coleman/Melvoin family influence, even SOTT because a majority of tracks came from the Dream Factory sessions with W&L) all pretty much sold in the same ballpark figures once the glow of PR had faded and all had similar chart success in the US on the singles chart. They all sold more or equal to than any of his albums prior to PR so how could he be losing fans? ..and for all the talk of losing his funk/black roots, Parade charted better on the R&B chart than either ATWIAD or SOTT. Prince, coincidentally, lost the largest group of fans when he released his first fresh new work without any Coleman/Melvoin family involvement - that work is LoveSexy. This album tanked on the charts, struggling even to reach 500k gold status. This was a huge drop from the previous 3 releases and was his worst chart showing since Controversy. So what if I was very young in the 80s? My age is irrelvent to this discussion. Being older doesn't always mean well-rounded. Those same people who bought 1999 were likely disappointed with ATWIAD have you thought about that? Because they expected ATWIAD to be another 1999 or Purple Rain. Or that when they listened to Kiss they thought that is what Parade is going to be like so that is also another reason why they bought Parade. Buying and actually liking the album are two different things. Also how come most of those same 1999 fans can easily say Let's Go Crazy, Little Red Corvette, and Kiss for examples were their favorites but not Mountains or Sometimes Snow in April or Do U Lie? I spoke to countless Prince's fans and many agreed that Prince lost his damn mind after he released ATWIAD and Parade and yes some followed Prince since 1999 or even as early as For You. Yes they were around at the time and likely some are old enough to be your parent. And of course I am not speaking for all 1999 fans and neither should you. I am still concluded that prince started to lose fans after he released ATIWAD and nope not all of them became fans after listened to purple rain. ALso I can't believed that you use figures to conclude album's success means people actually like them. Figures means jack shit. Oh by the way Parade maybe charted higher, thanks to Kiss, but funky ass SOTT stayed longest on the R&B charts compared to Parade or ATWIAD. | |
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WonderU said: dewalliz said: YAWN!!  You claimed you are positive yet you wasn't around or likely never met prince in your life so please spare me.
You right you just a fan but you are providing third party information. I would take you little more seriously if you actually spent some time with prince or even if you get more sources from the people who was there with prince from the beginning as well. susan rogers was there with prince true around the clock but i dont think she was there when andre was around who heavily contributed to Prince's early music so she doesn't know a damn thing behind the scenes around that time. She came along shortly before 1999 era therefore andre was long gone and as far as dr. fink, it's your word not his since he's not here to defend himself. I guess you dont entirely read all of Prince's books after all or you wouldn't toss susan's name as your only source. Prince's sound or his sound was different around atwiad. he created songs that it was unheard of in his albums before and yes lisa and wendy had changed prince's sound during that period. even some of your fellow l&w fans admit that! as far as considered Purple rain to be cool for everyone you and i are from different enviroment so you speaking for yourself so don't concluded your enviroment was what everyone's else like. where I come from a lot of people left prince even before purple rain era and many more after he did around the world in a crap and yes they were fans before even you not purple rain bandwagons. Girl get a reality check and widen your small world a bit. Wow...like planting seeds in concrete. I truly do get it now....you just don't have a clue about this topic. Damn newbies. so anyone who doesn't agreed with you doesn't have a clue? whatever girl. i am done responding to you because apparently your childish and instigating remarks and your lack of debating skills bores me. talking about you being the older and wiser one. let me know when you decided to engage in a meaningful and mature debate, ill get back with u . because this discussion is for grown acting folks only. until then nice chatting with you.  | |
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Aerogram said: But that is just not the kind of success they once aimed for and the one they would have if they were really responsible for Prince's biggest hits.
You must've skimmed over this part of my post: They have no desire, nor ego, to be what some people consider "stars." They leave that up to people like Prince. I don't ever recall their goal being to gain "pop stardom." They weren't out to make Prince's biggest hits, they were making music. It just so happened those songs became hits. jtfolden said: I thought about bringing all that up but figured 'some people' will just be idiotic enough to claim they are leeching off the stars of others. LOL
Only if they were silly enough to turn it around like that. They correct way of thinking is that these musicians want to leech of off them. | |
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dewalliz said: So what if I was very young in the 80s? My age is irrelvent to this discussion. Being older doesn't always mean well-rounded. Those same people who bought 1999 were likely disappointed with ATWIAD have you thought about that? Because they expected ATWIAD to be another 1999 or Purple Rain. Or that when they listened to Kiss they thought that is what Parade is going to be like so that is also another reason why they bought Parade. Buying and actually liking the album are two different things.
Why is it that they were 'likely disappointed'? I bought 1999 and wasn't disappointed with ATWIAD at all. It wasn't my favorite but I was thankful for the variety, rather than having yet another artist who repeated himself over and over again. I know Prince fans who loved 1999 and ATWIAD yet thought PR was a sell out... how's that for fan variety? And age does make a difference in some cases. I was in High School when all this was going on and remember how the average person reacted to Prince back when a new video or single from him was still an event. Also how come most of those same 1999 fans can easily say Let's Go Crazy, Little Red Corvette, and Kiss for examples were their favorites but not Mountains or Sometimes Snow in April or Do U Lie?
Well, when you've polled all million+ fans back then that were buying 1999 and Parade, etc, you let me know. I had no trouble liking 1999 and then Parade when it came along later. It sounds like you were talking to a specific splinter of his following.
I am still concluded that prince started to lose fans after he released ATIWAD and nope not all of them became fans after listened to purple rain. ALso I can't believed that you use figures to conclude album's success means people actually like them. Figures means jack shit.
No, figures are a lot more telling than 3rd hand reports from ghost fans. From 1982 through 1987 Prince's US record buying audience number, those that could be counted on to buy one of his records, stayed fairly consistent outside of the PR hype. If ATWIAD or Parade had pissed off a great majority then the next album would have tanked pretty badly. Even if Prince lost a fan here or there, he also gained another to replace them. It wasn't until LoveSexy that almost 2/3rds of that audience just up and vanished, even with the help of a hit single. Oh by the way Parade maybe charted higher, thanks to Kiss, but funky ass SOTT stayed longest on the R&B charts compared to Parade or ATWIAD.
I actually don't remember the singles from SOTT doing much better on the R&B chart than the singles from Parade did. | |
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BeautifulFrance said: ThreadBare said: W&L are geniuses, masters of songwriting. It's hard to see how the best period of his career merely coincides with their presence and involvement. The subsequent fall-off is obvious.
You go from Splash, Mountains and SISIA to Jughead, 3 Chains Of Gold, etc. Anything that deviates from his general repetoire of funk and anthemic rock is generally derivative after the women left. "Coincidentally," Doyle Bramhall II's albums rock like crazy... Hmm, I wonder why... ah funny how you forget so quickly Sign o the times, The Black Album and Lovesexy !!!!! And to say they are geniuses ?!!! You must be joking. Most of their music put me to sleep in two minutes. They are so good that after prince they have been forgotten right away.
The most talented musicians who have worked with Prince and who have really influenced the Minneapolis sound are Sheila, Doctor Fink, Morris Day. And the best technically remain Michael B and Sonny T. Here, I suspect, is where the breakdown occurs. If we limit "genius" to the Minneapolis Sound -- which, mind you, comprised soooo many more people than Prince (Andre Cymone, for example) -- I can see your point. But, as has been cited by other posters, the Girl Bros. sound has been seen at work on many other artists' songs. SOTT bears their handiwork, albeit uncredited. Lovesexy is a great album, 'tis true, but owes a great deal to P melding his Sly influences with the then-emerging technologies. So, you wound up with horn parts in different keys from the songs, killer guitar solos and more sophisticated use of synths and computer sounds. A great album. The Black Album, on the other hand, shows a true lack of W&L's artistry. Here, Prince reverted to a funkier "Dirty Mind," and employed sparse instrumentation. The goal was dance music, in most cases, and you find him ad-libbing recurring melody or "lead" lines at will. The tunes are funky, without question, but repetitious and lacking the panache of Melvoin and Coleman. It is what it is. Obviously, this won't be the last thread such as this. I just find the ATWIAD?Parade period his most creative, diverse and musically challenging. You don't have to agree. My opinion won't change...  | |
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jtfolden said: dewalliz said: So what if I was very young in the 80s? My age is irrelvent to this discussion. Being older doesn't always mean well-rounded. Those same people who bought 1999 were likely disappointed with ATWIAD have you thought about that? Because they expected ATWIAD to be another 1999 or Purple Rain. Or that when they listened to Kiss they thought that is what Parade is going to be like so that is also another reason why they bought Parade. Buying and actually liking the album are two different things.
Why is it that they were 'likely disappointed'? I bought 1999 and wasn't disappointed with ATWIAD at all. It wasn't my favorite but I was thankful for the variety, rather than having yet another artist who repeated himself over and over again. I know Prince fans who loved 1999 and ATWIAD yet thought PR was a sell out... how's that for fan variety? And age does make a difference in some cases. I was in High School when all this was going on and remember how the average person reacted to Prince back when a new video or single from him was still an event. No, figures are a lot more telling than 3rd hand reports from ghost fans. From 1982 through 1987 Prince's US record buying audience number, those that could be counted on to buy one of his records, stayed fairly consistent outside of the PR hype. If ATWIAD or Parade had pissed off a great majority then the next album would have tanked pretty badly. Even if Prince lost a fan here or there, he also gained another to replace them. It wasn't until LoveSexy that almost 2/3rds of that audience just up and vanished, even with the help of a hit single. Oh by the way Parade maybe charted higher, thanks to Kiss, but funky ass SOTT stayed longest on the R&B charts compared to Parade or ATWIAD.
I actually don't remember the singles from SOTT doing much better on the R&B chart than the singles from Parade did. Well of course there are always exception to every case and I did said most of 1999 fans not all. I know Prince's fans who loved 1999 and Purple Rain but hated ATWIAD and Parade but love SOTT and yes they are older than you. They were in their 20s or older. Like I said I am not speaking for all fans, just the ones who I ran across to. Like I said buying and liking are two different things. For example Maybe some of those 1999 fans who went on to buy ATWIAD and Parade and SOTT out of curiosity and still hate those albums and then just gave up on Prince when he released lovesexy so therefore your earlier claimed of him losing fans due to wendy and lisa not being around is just subjective. it's more to it than that. Whether you remember or not SOTT did stay longer than Parade and ATWIAD on the R&B charts and that is a known fact. Exception to Kiss, the singles from SOTT peaked higher than Anotherloverholeninyohead and Mountains and even stayed longer. I got the Billboard R&B book to prove my claim so where's yours? Look it up if you don't believed me rather than trying to dismiss my claims due to me being the kid of the 80s which it is kind of silly if you must ask. | |
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jerry springer up in here
anyways they may not have co written or produced hella shit but prince feed off them i believe. i mean even on sott... werent alot of those songs done during the last part of the revolution era?...and even still the lyrics they're about susannah anyways? | |
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dewalliz said: Well of course there are always exception to every case and I did said most of 1999 fans not all.
The thing is.. you can't say 'most' because you haven't talked to 'most' 1999 fans (unless you've just finished the poll I asked for! ). As you say, it's just the ones you ran across... the ones I knew/know/spoke to were rarely so narrow when it came to their love of Prince's music. Most of the people I was around when it was actually happening liked the very tracks you often indicate that you despise.
Like I said buying and liking are two different things. For example Maybe some of those 1999 fans who went on to buy ATWIAD and Parade and SOTT out of curiosity and still hate those albums and then just gave up on Prince when he released lovesexy so therefore your earlier claimed of him losing fans due to wendy and lisa not being around is just subjective. it's more to it than that.
You know... you attempt to toss out my use of actual hard figures yet stoop to creating theoretical scenarios such as the above. I made no claims as to WHY Prince lost his audience, only that it happened with the first album of fresh material that contained no Coleman/Melvoin input - LoveSexy. ...and unlike your claims of Kiss saving Parade and sending sales over 1.3 million US, LoveSexy could not be saved by Alphabet St... Whether you remember or not SOTT did stay longer than Parade and ATWIAD on the R&B charts and that is a known fact. Exception to Kiss, the singles from SOTT peaked higher than Anotherloverholeninyohead and Mountains and even stayed longer. I got the Billboard R&B book to prove my claim so where's yours? Look it up if you don't believed me rather than trying to dismiss my claims due to me being the kid of the 80s which it is kind of silly if you must ask.
If you've got the book, then please post. I seem to remember ATWAID being on the charts for a looong time, though that could have just been the pop chart. I actually purchased Billboard at the time but have had those mags boxed up for 15-20 years now. On the R&B singles chart, I remember Kiss going #1, Mountains going #15 and Anotherloverhoneyohead going #18. I do believe Parade peaked at #2. With SOTT, I seem to recall the album going to #4 on the R&B chart, the single going to #1. After that, I think If I was Your Girlfriend went to #15. I can't remember where U Got The Look charted but, again, seem to recall Hot Thing hitting #18. I've haven't thought about these numbers since 1987 so I'd be curious to know how close I got. | |
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Christopher said: jerry springer up in here
anyways they may not have co written or produced hella shit but prince feed off them i believe. i mean even on sott... werent alot of those songs done during the last part of the revolution era?...and even still the lyrics they're about susannah anyways? Yes, the following SOTT songs were all included on the last, unreleased, album credited to "Prince & The Revolution": The Ballad Of Dorothy Parker It Strange Relationship Slow Love Starfish And Coffee I Could Never Take The Place Of Your Man Sign O' The Times The Cross ..and you'll find Susannah on, or the inspiration for, quite a few of the other tracks. | |
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Whatever W&L FAMS have to say here, I think their solo career is very average. Their music is boring. There is nothing challenging in what they do. Their sound is sterilized. Wendy's voice is terribly weak.
I expected a lot more from their solo career. They have disappointed apart from a bunch of melancolic prince fans stuck in the purple years who turn up in any club they play, secretly hoping they will not play their own tunes but will go for Sometimes it snows in April. You guys are lying to yourselves : none of their solo tracks is nowhere near any of the prince & The Revolution tunes. I know it hurts you W&L FAMS but that's a fact. W&L FAMS are not trying to say their collabortion to Prince's music has been succesful. No, they are clearly trying to diminish Prince's musical abilities by saying in fact that was W&L who were behind all this success. I was at the Bataclan in 2002. The little man was up there with his guitar with Maceo, Candy, Renato, John. And nobody, I mean nobody gave a fuck about W&L not being up there with him. Cuz you know what : there was a genius on stage, doing some incredible guitar work and whose musical skills were amazing evryone in the attendance. He was at the top of his powers and I have followed him now since 1983. His band's sound and tightness were incredible. So let's leave W&L to their indie boring pop/rock stuff especially designed for sad students smoking joints and trying to become even more depressed and slow than they already are. Il n'y a pas de sentiment plus exaltant que celui d'appartenir à une nation si diverse, si libre et si douée pour le bonheur. | |
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BeautifulFrance said: You guys are lying to yourselves : none of their solo tracks is nowhere near any of the prince & The Revolution tunes. I know it hurts you W&L FAMS but that's a fact.
Do you know how truly foolish it is to put your opinion forth as fact? Last time I checked, reality did not bend to your will. I know it hurts Prince fanatics like you but that's a fact. W&L FAMS are not trying to say their collabortion to Prince's music has been succesful. No, they are clearly trying to diminish Prince's musical abilities by saying in fact that was W&L who were behind all this success.
Paranoid much? I swear (not-so-)BeautifulFrance, by the way you go on one would think that W&L killed your toy pony. Whatever the true cause of your emotional turmoil over W&L it's obvious you have no facts or mature points of interest to add here so it really is for the best that you're taking your leave of this thread. Thanks for doing yourself and us a favor. | |
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jtfolden said: BeautifulFrance said: You guys are lying to yourselves : none of their solo tracks is nowhere near any of the prince & The Revolution tunes. I know it hurts you W&L FAMS but that's a fact.
Do you know how truly foolish it is to put your opinion forth as fact? Last time I checked, reality did not bend to your will. I know it hurts Prince fanatics like you but that's a fact. W&L FAMS are not trying to say their collabortion to Prince's music has been succesful. No, they are clearly trying to diminish Prince's musical abilities by saying in fact that was W&L who were behind all this success.
Paranoid much? I swear (not-so-)BeautifulFrance, by the way you go on one would think that W&L killed your toy pony. Whatever the true cause of your emotional turmoil over W&L it's obvious you have no facts or mature points of interest to add here so it really is for the best that you're taking your leave of this thread. Thanks for doing yourself and us a favor. Us... You mean you and the other W&L FAM who has W1L as an avatar !!!
+ You have to make comments about my country (that you obviously don't know) because youv are pissed off with me ! Woaw it says a lot about your weaknesses. + W&L are boring to death and you know it. Let's talk about great artists like Sheila E, Morris Day, Fink, Michael B, sonny T or John Blackwell. I mean exciting artists, entertainers. people who make you move your fat arse when you see them on stage. Who has influenced positively the sound of a Prince album more than John Blackwell on TRC ? Have fun. Allow yourself to be happy and to enjoy the funk ! Il n'y a pas de sentiment plus exaltant que celui d'appartenir à une nation si diverse, si libre et si douée pour le bonheur. | |
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jtfolden said: BeautifulFrance said: You guys are lying to yourselves : none of their solo tracks is nowhere near any of the prince & The Revolution tunes. I know it hurts you W&L FAMS but that's a fact.
Do you know how truly foolish it is to put your opinion forth as fact? Last time I checked, reality did not bend to your will. I know it hurts Prince fanatics like you but that's a fact. W&L FAMS are not trying to say their collabortion to Prince's music has been succesful. No, they are clearly trying to diminish Prince's musical abilities by saying in fact that was W&L who were behind all this success.
Paranoid much? I swear (not-so-)BeautifulFrance, by the way you go on one would think that W&L killed your toy pony. Whatever the true cause of your emotional turmoil over W&L it's obvious you have no facts or mature points of interest to add here so it really is for the best that you're taking your leave of this thread. Thanks for doing yourself and us a favor. I just found out in your profile your musical tatse hahahaha !!! Well fair enough end of the discussion. I know now why you like W&L so much. I really wished I had known about your tatse before we even started all this. I like music and real musicians you see. I did not know you were into all that commercial crap. Really sorry mate. In your profile you mention some of the other artists you like : Madonna, Olivia Newton-John, Robbie Williams. Period.  [Edited 1/18/06 3:05am] Il n'y a pas de sentiment plus exaltant que celui d'appartenir à une nation si diverse, si libre et si douée pour le bonheur. | |
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TheBatman said: Aerogram said: But that is just not the kind of success they once aimed for and the one they would have if they were really responsible for Prince's biggest hits.
[b]You must've skimmed over this part of my post: They have no desire, nor ego, to be what some people consider "stars." They leave that up to people like Prince. You must have skimmed over the part of my post where I said "once aimed". Come on... they did try! It's just too convenient to say they made videos and stuff but were "not interested" in big time pop success. | |
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Everything that they claim to have written still sounds like Prince to me.
"Mountains" - I don't know but sounds like Prince's lyrics. Shut up already, damn. | |
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bring me some popcorn,this is an interesting thread | |
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Aerogram said: TheBatman said: [b]You must've skimmed over this part of my post: They have no desire, nor ego, to be what some people consider "stars." They leave that up to people like Prince. You must have skimmed over the part of my post where I said "once aimed". Come on... they did try! It's just too convenient to say they made videos and stuff but were "not interested" in big time pop success. yeah they did and they fell into the same pit that teena marie did and that nikka costa is going through...soul/funk/pop white chicks just dont sell.. and lets not even get into the whole lesbian issue...or the fact that female duo's rarely succeed..have they ever? cha know what i mean.. and to both sides of this issue, can we knock the personal attacks off? this whole "take your meds" attitude ruined what could have been a great thread to read. Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: Aerogram said: You must have skimmed over the part of my post where I said "once aimed". Come on... they did try! It's just too convenient to say they made videos and stuff but were "not interested" in big time pop success. yeah they did and they fell into the same pit that teena marie did and that nikka costa is going through...soul/funk/pop white chicks just dont sell.. and lets not even get into the whole lesbian issue...or the fact that female duo's rarely succeed..have they ever? cha know what i mean.. and to both sides of this issue, can we knock the personal attacks off? this whole "take your meds" attitude ruined what could have been a great thread to read. Ok now W&L have not been succesful because they are : - White - Women - Lesbian !!! Nothing to do with their soporific music of course.
A message to all W&L fams. They are talented, ok. They have done some great stuff with Prince. We all admit that. But their solo career is disappointing. Their muic is often boring even if well produced. They are nowhere near the definition of "genius". They are just part of the numerous musicians who have worked at some stage with prince and who have been forgotten quickly. Now let's talk about ex Prince musicians who are still in the biz and doing well : Sheila E anyone ? Il n'y a pas de sentiment plus exaltant que celui d'appartenir à une nation si diverse, si libre et si douée pour le bonheur. | |
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BeautifulFrance said: sosgemini said: yeah they did and they fell into the same pit that teena marie did and that nikka costa is going through...soul/funk/pop white chicks just dont sell.. and lets not even get into the whole lesbian issue...or the fact that female duo's rarely succeed..have they ever? cha know what i mean.. and to both sides of this issue, can we knock the personal attacks off? this whole "take your meds" attitude ruined what could have been a great thread to read. Ok now W&L have not been succesful because they are : - White - Women - Lesbian !!! Nothing to do with their soporific music of course.
A message to all W&L fams. They are talented, ok. They have done some great stuff with Prince. We all admit that. But their solo career is disappointing. Their muic is often boring even if well produced. They are nowhere near the definition of "genius". They are just part of the numerous musicians who have worked at some stage with prince and who have been forgotten quickly. Now let's talk about ex Prince musicians who are still in the biz and doing well : Sheila E anyone ? 1) dont call me a fam. if you wanna discuss our differing views on this subject fine..but dont talk down to me..discuss with me. 2) sheila e is great...we agree...and we can be adult and agree to disagree that wendy and lisa are great. if you look at wendy and lisa's recent contributions to the music world you will see they are actually much more busy then sheila e. but ya know what? so the fuck what...cause in the end, you like sheila e..great for you!! super!! what a wonderful world... 3) stop assuming your opinions are fact. Space for sale... | |
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BeautifulFrance said: Ok now W&L have not been succesful because they are : - White - Women - Lesbian !!! Nothing to do with their soporific music of course.
stop with the hyperbole please. if you feel their music is sophomoric, thats your opinion. but like nikka costa and teena marie their albums have always been recieved warmly by the industry and critics...thats why when they have live shows they have folks like alicia keyes, sheryl crow, seal, prince, fiona apple, paul thomas anderson, vincent gallo, laura dern, neil finn, meshell, shiela e, eryka badu, ?uestlove showing up and giving praise... the fact of the matter is that part of prince's genious is that he had the right image for the right time. two white chicks singing soul just didnt have the same "hip" factor...and ya know what? that why wendy and lisa arent and widely acclaimed as prince. they couldnt work what they had to their advantage. i'll conceed that. and i'd be more then happy to discuss my views on this subject in more detail if you were interested.. can you resist the urge to bait and actually talk to me here? Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said: 3) stop assuming your opinions are fact. Coming from people like you who keep pretending everywhere W&L are behind everything that has made Prince what he is, that's very funny. So now "I'm talking to you". For too long, I have read a few people saying things "prince owes W&L everything", "since they left, his music is crap", "they have written nearly everything when they used to work together" etc These are such arrogant, ignorant and pretentious statements ! The truth is I have bought everything related to W&L expecting everytime some great stuff and I have been disappointed everytime. I think their music is too often boring. I often find them as pretentious and arrogant as prince is. Buy Alicia Keys unplugged, there is a lot of talent and emotion in this girl. In a few years, she has composed more great tunes than W&L have had the last 20 years. Now when it comes to Prince, they are many things I have hated about his work and tours sometimes (NPS, Rave being part of this). And I have no problem to tell it. When he is not good in a concert, I just say it was bad. I do not lie to myself. And I cannot stand the prince FAMS. But I have to say W&L FAMS can be as bad as prince FAMS. They are all over the place trying to convince that W&L can DO NO WRONG and that everything they touch becomes gold instantly. They even tell you they have no success (like big rock stars and pop stars) because they are white + lesbian + women !!! It reminds me of some people on the org who think Arms of orion is as good as anything on the SOTT album or that the sound on The One nite Alone las vegas DVD is amazing ! W&L are just taleneted musicians like they are so many out there. They just did not have what it takes to reach the level of the Sly Stone, Miles davis, stevie Wonder or...Prince. A complete different league. [Edited 1/18/06 7:14am] Il n'y a pas de sentiment plus exaltant que celui d'appartenir à une nation si diverse, si libre et si douée pour le bonheur. | |
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BeautifulFrance said: sosgemini said: 3) stop assuming your opinions are fact. Coming from people like you who keep pretending everywhere W&L are behind everything that has made Prince what he is, that's very funny. So now "I'm talking to you". For too long, I have read a few people saying things "prince owes W&L everything", "since they left, his music is crap", "they have written nearly everything when they used to work together" etc These are such arrogant, ignorant and pretentious statements ! The truth is I have bought everything related to W&L expecting everytime some great stuff and I have been disappointed everytime. I think their music is too often boring. I often find them as pretentious and arrogant as prince is. Buy Alicia Keys unplugged, there is a lot of talent and emotion in this girl. In a few years, she has composed more great tunes than W&L have had the last 20 years. Now when it comes to Prince, they are many things I have hated about his work and tours sometimes (NPS, Rave being part of this). And I have no problem to tell it. When he is not good in a concert, I just say it was bad. I do not lie to myself. And I cannot stand the prince FAMS. But I have to say W&L FAMS can be as bad as prince FAMS. They are all over the place trying to convince that W&L can DO NO WRONG and that everything they touch becomes gold instantly. They even tell you they have no success (like big rock stars and pop stars) because they are white + lesbian + women !!! It reminds me of some people on the org who think Arms of orion is as good as anything on the SOTT album or that the sound on The One nite Alone las vegas DVD is amazing ! W&L are just taleneted musicians like they are so many out there. They just did not have what it takes to reach the level of the Sly Stone, Miles davis, stevie Wonder or...Prince. A complete different league.
[Edited 1/18/06 7:14am] please provide us with a specific quote (or a link) showing that i have claimed any of the above? ive been hosting www.girlbroslandia.org and moderating it for sometime now and never..never have i read any wendy and lisa fan indicate that they wrote the majority of prince's music. as far as the other two claimes 1) prince owes everything and 2) since they left prince is crap...those are peoples opinions..and they are no more valid then yours or mine...and if the majority of folks who participate in a specific discussion feel that way you cant begrudge them their views. just be adult enough to agree to disagree. and why the hell are you trying to turn this into an us vs. them fight? cause im a wendy and lisa fan..and i havent heard of any secret underground meetings where we get together and plot how to prove that they rule and everyone else sucks...people are just talking man....just sharing their perspectives.. and ya know what? if you wanna say, "hey, wendy and lisa arent for me"..well ya know what? super..but why the hell are you gonna knock down someone else's personal taste by making a grandstand statement like the following: W&L are just taleneted musicians like they are so many out there. They just did not have what it takes to reach the level of the Sly Stone, Miles davis, stevie Wonder or...Prince. A complete different league
cause ya know what? who the fuck here...on this site or on this planet is even arguing that they are in the same leaque? some folks, like myself, enjoy their music moreso then princes...does that take away your own enjoyment of prince? does that emasculate you somehow? see, the above quote is a perfect example of the rabid behavior here on the org...aint nobody here ever claimed the above statement but people read it..agree with it...a few weeks or months down the road people then quote it saying: "ya know what..all i read here on the org is you wendy and lisa fans thinking that they are in the same leaque as sly, davis and wonder..you guys are fams..your crazy"... alliwonder/anywaysedit... its silly...start arse silly.. [Edited 1/18/06 7:34am] Space for sale... | |
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sosgemini said:[quote] BeautifulFrance said: please provide us with a specific quote (or a link) showing that i have claimed any of the above? ive been hosting www.girlbroslandia.org and moderating it for sometime now and never..never have i read any wendy and lisa fan indicate that they wrote the majority of prince's music. as far as the other two claimes 1) prince owes everything and 2) since they left prince is crap...those are peoples opinions..and they are no more valid then yours or mine...and if the majority of folks who participate in a specific discussion feel that way you cant begrudge them their views. just be adult enough to agree to disagree. and why the hell are you trying to turn this into an us vs. them fight? cause im a wendy and lisa fan..and i havent heard of any secret underground meetings where we get together and plot how to prove that they rule and everyone else sucks...people are just talking man....just sharing their perspectives.. and ya know what? if you wanna say, "hey, wendy and lisa arent for me"..well ya know what? super..but why the hell are you gonna knock down someone else's personal taste by making a grandstand statement like the following: W&L are just taleneted musicians like they are so many out there. They just did not have what it takes to reach the level of the Sly Stone, Miles davis, stevie Wonder or...Prince. A complete different league
cause ya know what? who the fuck here...on this site or on this planet is even arguing that they are in the same leaque? some folks, like myself, enjoy their music moreso then princes...does that take away your own enjoyment of prince? does that emasculate you somehow? see, the above quote is a perfect example of the rabid behavior here on the org...aint nobody here ever claimed the above statement but people read it..agree with it...a few weeks or months down the road people then quote it saying: "ya know what..all i read here on the org is you wendy and lisa fans thinking that they are in the same leaque as sly, davis and wonder..you guys are fams..your crazy"... alliwonder/anywaysedit... its silly...start arse silly.. [Edited 1/18/06 7:34am] Do not act like if you did not understand. You are a moderator on a site dedicated to Prince and you know like I know how W&L fams play it on the org. Aerogram has perfectly sumed up you guys attitude : " Yes, Wendy and Lisa wrote most of ATWIAD and Parade, inspired Madonna to release Like A Prayer and Paul Simon Graceland, along with shepherding the Lesbian liberation movement and a renewed interest in the music of Wolfang Amadeus Mozart. " Now when you are told their music is boring you are upset and all. It is just time to hear on or two other opinions about their music than the ones coming from your small community of 1000 remaining W&L fans. [Edited 1/18/06 7:50am] Il n'y a pas de sentiment plus exaltant que celui d'appartenir à une nation si diverse, si libre et si douée pour le bonheur. | |
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BeautifulFrance said: sosgemini said: cause ya know what? who the fuck here...on this site or on this planet is even arguing that they are in the same leaque? some folks, like myself, enjoy their music moreso then princes...does that take away your own enjoyment of prince? does that emasculate you somehow? see, the above quote is a perfect example of the rabid behavior here on the org...aint nobody here ever claimed the above statement but people read it..agree with it...a few weeks or months down the road people then quote it saying: "ya know what..all i read here on the org is you wendy and lisa fans thinking that they are in the same leaque as sly, davis and wonder..you guys are fams..your crazy"... alliwonder/anywaysedit... its silly...start arse silly.. [Edited 1/18/06 7:34am] Do not act like if you did not understand. You are a moderator on a site dedicated to Prince and you know like I know how W&L fams play it on the org. Aerogram has perfectly sumed up you guys attitude : " Yes, Wendy and Lisa wrote most of ATWIAD and Parade, inspired Madonna to release Like A Prayer and Paul Simon Graceland, along with shepherding the Lesbian liberation movement and a renewed interest in the music of Wolfang Amadeus Mozart. " Now when you are told their music is boring you are upset and all. It is just time to hear on or two other opinions about their music than the ones coming from your small community of 1000 remaining W&L fans. [Edited 1/18/06 7:50am] why are you making this personal? have i expressed anything to lead you to think im upset? and whats up with the "its just time to hear" comment? are you that annoyed by others who are expressing an opposing view to yours that you have to generate a campaign to neutralize the discussion? come on now!!! and when did aerogram make that statement? cause i have never seen him ever resort to such a low comment like the above one your contributing to him...please post a link. Space for sale... | |
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