jtfolden said:

Amen!

BeautifulFrance said:

Prince's music was a lot better when he was collaborating with Wendy and Lisa. By far. The proof is in the music!

jtfolden said:

There is a big difference between he owes them an inch and he owes them EVERYTHING.
The big difference betwwen someone like you and me is that I have no problem saying when prince has been really bad on stage or when he has released a crap album like NPS or Rave but you guys are W&L FAMS !!! Totally blind !!!

If we believed you Eroica would be a masterpiece, wendy would be a great singer and both of them would be amazing stage performers. Unfortunately none of this is true and it hurts you big time.

W&L are very talented musicians but they are nowhere near Prince's genius. That's the truth.

And no when they left the music carried on : SOTT, TheBlack Album, Lovesexy. Do they play on Gold and TRC as well ?!!!

I personnaly prefer the musicianship of Sheila E. Sheis a better, more accomplished musician and a far better stage performer. Bye ! hehe
[Edited 1/17/06 12:36pm]

BeautifulFrance said:

co sign. no wondered their labels dropped them and they were so fucking boring as an artists -wendy's voice was so dull-and also yes even their music had cause me getting some of the best sleep in years. even prince made a reference that their waterfall video was boring as they refused to take prince's suggestion how to make the video more exciting.

after he fired them he dropped that experimental bullshit that he was doing around 1985-86. thank goodness.

jtfolden said:

yes and it was funkier too since he eliminated most of their contributions to the album. had he not rerecorded most of lisa and wendy's features off sott, i guarentee it would been a different sott and not in a good way.

Yeah, well you know what? Fuck Prince for making me think he did life can be so nice and all my dreams and splash and shit like that...FUCK HIM for betraying me, making me think that HE came up with all of that, when in truth he had nothing to do with it...he ain't no genius...

WaterUdrink said:

You are so !

dewalliz said:

Just beacause you don't understand any kind of music other than funk, PLEASE don't try to pretend you know what you're talking about. Because frankly, you don't. If Wendy and Lisa hadn't come along we would have gotten New Power Soul three years SOONER so you should be thanking them not dissing them.

BeautifulFrance said:

finally someone had said it!!!
I am not knocking down any hardcore lisa and wendy fans big admiration for the duo but damn some of you act like everything they touch is gold. come on there have to be a L&W song or video that you didn't like or wished that they could have done better. hell prince is one of my fav artists but you dont see me of not being critical whether his aweful performance onstage or when he released a shitty album. same goes for the actors that i truly in luv with. I also criticize their actions too and not being very blind by their looks or whatever they talent for.
it seems unrealistic that some of l&w fans agreed everything that they do. if you guys easily pointed out prince's faults and i pretty sure that you can do the same for lisa and wendy. no one is perfect and that includes lisa and wendy. and it would be refreshing to see some constructive criticism from lisa and wendy's biggest fans for a change. it doesnt make you a less fam or whatever you call yourselves, it makes you more objective. no wonder half of the orgers are turned off by them because some people do act like they were prince's goddesses. even lisa and wendy wouldn't be pleased.

BeautifulFrance said:

Funny, I didn't see anyone saying he owes them EVERYTHING. You equate an inch with a mile... thanks for proving my point.



You really are pulling this crap out of your rear end. Do I think W&L is perfect? No... They've had their share of mistakes and clunkers, too, but this isn't about whether you like the music, whether you like Wendy's voice, what commercial success they've had post-Prince, etc, this is about just giving the girls their due. I'm amazed people have such an issue with this. Is it because they're women?

No matter what you think of W&L, personally, the fact remains that they were a heavy influence on Prince's music during the mid 80's.




Actually, no ones opinions are 'true'. You fall flat on your face when you start putting up your own opinions as fact. I never said any of what you are claiming in this thread. Oh, and for the record, I don't think Wendy is a 'great' singer. I actually prefer Lisa's singing voice. I think her vocal work on Girl Bros is, generally, superior to Wendy's. Otoh, I'd never classify either of them as 'GREAT' singers. Their song-writing and musicianship is another matter entirely.




I don't believe anyone was stating that on this thread.




The Colemans & Melvoins are all over SOTT, actually... even with the work the Prince recorded over.

...but once again, this thread did not pose the question if Prince could make a good record without W&L, he obviously can. The Question was "Is Wendy and Lisa's contribution embellished?" and that answer to that is a big fat NO.

jtfolden said:

Can someone please make sure that dewalliz prints this out and reads it daily??

WonderU said:

hey i am thanking prince for finally came to his senses and got rid of your saviors for ruined his music.

little girl you only fooling yourself thinking i only understand funk. then that the case you dont understand any other music but that indie rock that hardly anyone heard of or listens to anyway.

you can TRIED to jump on me and defend lisa and wendy all you want but you know what? prince is the genius in my eyes.

WonderU said:

can someone please tell wonderu to take her meds. some L&W fanatic are very scarey without their meds

dewalliz said:

Yeah wasn't it your savior that wrote this for mine??

2 these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em what I wasn't strong enough 2 say
2 these walls I talk
Tellin' 'em how I cried the day U went away

How do we ever lose communication?
How do we ever lose each other's sound?
Baby, if U wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Yeah

In this bed I scream
Lonely nights I lay awake thinking of U
And if I'm cursed with a dream
A thousand times I feel whatever I've put U through

Tell me, how're we gonna put this back 2gether?
How're we gonna think with the same mind?
Knowing all along that life is so much better
Living and loving 2gether all the time

Living and loving

In this bed I, in this bed I, in this bed I scream

In this car I drive
I'm looking 4 the road that leads back 2 the soul we shared
With my very life
I'd gladly be the body upon the cross we bear (Cross we bear)

How do we ever lose communication? (How did we?)
How do we ever lose each other's sound? (I don't know)
Baby, if U wanna, we can fix the situation
Maybe we can stop the rain from coming down

Maybe we can't, maybe we can
Stop the rain, stop the rain

Sounds like Prince regrets losing them as much as we do

Thank you for proving my point, if you think they're indie rock. Wow.

Prince is a genius that is true, and part of that genius was knowing that Wendy and Lisa knew their shit and he trusted them completely with music. He's never trusted anyone with his music that much before that or since. You have no argument and no matter how many points you try to make, THAT point just gets clearer and clearer.

dewalliz said:

Awww...did I hurt little Mary's feelings????

WonderU said:

are you sure about that? so are you saying before the lisa and wendy duo that prince barely trust anyone else creatively? thats bull. what about andre and dez? dr fink? they had contributed a lot to prince's earlier albums and yet unlike lisa and wendy they received NO credit. it seem like dr fink and dez didn't made too much of a fuss of prince not credited them properly but andre..he left. so unless you was actually there your claimed is pure subjective and based on reading prince's books. at least i admitted that wendy and lisa's contribution to atwiad and parade weren't embellished. even i know damn well that those two albums were been funkier and rockish if lisa and wendy wasn't around.

i never denied they had influenced prince. started with the couple songs of purple rain, his sound started to change as he allow more input from lisa and wendy. but to me they just happened to be many of Prince's influences. what i disagreed was that they were the only ones who contribute to his sound of the 80s or made prince to where he is today. isnt funny prince started to lose his fans started with the albums that lisa and wendy contribute the most?

WonderU said:

mary who? i don't know any orger goes by that name. wonderu you still havent taken your meds yet?

dewalliz said:

Don't get confused, Prince didn't lose his FANS, he lost the MASSES, big difference. See this is where actually being there when this all happened is helpful. THE WHOLE WORLD turned purple in 1984 and no video footage or any story in any magazine can give you a clue on how you weren't COOL if you weren't into Prince during that time. I was there and loving every minute of it,so which one of us is basing their knowledge from a book again???

And yes I'm POSITIVE that Prince hadn't trusted anyone with his music not even Dez, Andre or Fink. They contributed to the music, but he NEVER sent them skeletons of songs and trusted they would finish it the way he would. I've had conversations with Fink and everything he contributed to, he received credit for. How is it that people that were THERE, actually THERE in the studio give Wendy and Lisa a lot of credit for the sound that was coming out of Prince at the time. Susan Rogers point blank said "Wendy and Lisa thought of things that Prince never would have thought of." You blame Wendy and Lisa for changing Prince's sound but do not forget, it was just as much HIS vision as it was theirs, they just helped him get it out the way he wanted it to sound. Also, I'm just as much of a Prince fan as I am a Wendy and Lisa fan and I have been now for 25 years. So before you try to school me, don't, just grab a pen and paper and learn.

dewalliz said:

And you call yourself a Prince fan. Just as I thought, "talking loud and saying nothing."

I have no problem with accepting Wendy and Lisa's influence on Prince's music. I'm just a tad fed up with the one way street of W&L indluencing Prince so much, while it was him that gave them the chance to develop further within his music. I really don't see them writing Mountains without having been with Prince for a while. And when they went solo they did not take their success with them for too long. Whatver you think of their music, it had its main impact within Prince's. If they did write these songs or made those striking contributions, it was because he was there to incorporate it, within his overall vision. W&L did not make Prince. He made them and together they did beautiful music.

WonderU said:

YAWN!! You claimed you are positive yet you wasn't around or likely never met prince in your life so please spare me.
You right you just a fan but you are providing third party information. I would take you little more seriously if you actually spent some time with prince or even if you get more sources from the people who was there with prince from the beginning as well. susan rogers was there with prince true around the clock but i dont think she was there when andre was around who heavily contributed to Prince's early music so she doesn't know a damn thing behind the scenes around that time. She came along shortly before 1999 era therefore andre was long gone and as far as dr. fink, it's your word not his since he's not here to defend himself. I guess you dont entirely read all of Prince's books after all or you wouldn't toss susan's name as your only source.

Prince's sound or his sound was different around atwiad. he created songs that it was unheard of in his albums before and yes lisa and wendy had changed prince's sound during that period. even some of your fellow l&w fans admit that!

as far as considered Purple rain to be cool for everyone you and i are from different enviroment so you speaking for yourself so don't concluded your enviroment was what everyone's else like. where I come from a lot of people left prince even before purple rain era and many more after he did around the world in a crap and yes they were fans before even you not purple rain bandwagons.


Girl get a reality check and widen your small world a bit.

WonderU said:

apparently you are listening to me or you won't have respond to my posts whenever i don't blindly idolizes lisa and wendy. if lisa and wendy doesn't give a damn what non-fans thinks why should u? don't you realize what are you doing make some people turn them off even more? you only make matters worst so just give it up, girl.

Aerogram said:

well-said post except I disagreed with the last sentence though.

dewalliz said:

Wow...like planting seeds in concrete. I truly do get it now....you just don't have a clue about this topic. Damn newbies.

dewalliz said:

I could really care less what people think of Wendy and Lisa, just the ones who think they know what they're talking about, like....YOU!

WonderU said:

Stop lying.

Prince, Wendy, and Lisa were a strong collective together and it can be argued that along with the other members of the Revolution that Prince's sound changed (better or worse is all a matter of opinion and prespective).

I am a Prince fan; however, it cannot be denied that Wendy and Lisa were extremely instrumental in his sound during the early-to-mid 80s. Together they made great music and as for the actual contributions to the songs, you can only go on the material, interviews, recording session information/logs that's out there. If the question becomes: Is he really the genius we thought he was/is? Then I say the answer is "yes." But being a musical genius does not mean you're not influenced by others. Being a musical genius means really quite the opposite. You can take input (ideas, contributions, etc.) and improve upon the input or at least tailor the input to the audience you are trying to reach.

AWTWIAD is Prince with input from group members - especially Lisa and Wendy. From my studies, Lisa and Wendy contributed heavily, but he was going that direction any way (band leader vice a sole 1-man studio band). It was an important move because we got some great material. Lisa and Wendy are probably not getting all of the credit or input that actually contributed; however, there is credit and Lisa and Wendy seem content knowing that they were part of something special. But for those of you that really want to think of Prince as that 1-man band or at least the diretor that visualized and instructued everything, you still have those gems as well (yes, even on Parade and AWTWIAD). Remember that Prince did lay a lot of the tracks himself and sometimes in one take. I personally think the road goes both ways: Some credit may have been withheld, yet some credit was also given when maybe it wasn't quite what we consider considerable input.

The best ones to listen to our the band members, engineers, etc. that were part of that era. Dr. Fink seems to think that the credit was properly given. Lisa and Wendy seem content, but one can tell in their interviews that they may feel a little short on the credits, while the others may have contributed, but no where near the extent that Lisa and Wendy did. A bassline or synth groove are contributions, but not necessarily co-writer credit type inputs. What is interesting to note is that the whole late-70s/early 80s music era of Prince was packed full of talent that was consistent with Prince's vision of Minnapolis funk. It is not only evidenced in his music as a solo artist, but also in the protege groups that were coming out under the Prince banner to include: Vanity/Appolonia 6 albums and The Time material. Both Lisa and Wendy were a part of that movement --- especially Lisa with The Time. But don't worry Prince fans -- it was still his vision and like any other group - you have to have a leader. Prince was the leader with some very talented soliders.

Aerogram said:

Yep!

napoleon370 said:

Nice post too.

dewalliz said:

Yes, dewalliz agrees - no matter how much she hates the result - that W&L's contributions were not embellished. It's BeautifulFrance that seems to get so obsessed with the idea that he foams at the mouth

Really, anyone who doubts this stuff can go back and check plenty of sources if you weren't there at the time. Such as the Rolling Stone interview from '86 with W&L where it was reported that W&L wrote Mountains and Sometimes It Snows In April. It was, also, reported by Wendy in the interview that Prince had given them general ideas about what he wanted and asked the girls to write songs (I believe this was in reference to the Dream Factory sessions and included tracks like Power Fantastic which was based on a composition by Lisa). I believe this was, also, the interview where Wendy made the statement that when the 3 of them were in the studio together, no one could top them musically.

We can, also, view the Mtv interview with Prince, done on the set of Under The Cherry Moon, where he talks about the girls input and about how much better/faster recordings go at the time because of W&L.




I'd argue that this is not true at all and I know from other posts of yours that you were not around at the time. I was... Prince himself talked about this very issue in a Rolling Stone interview of the period. He realized that the masses buying up Purple Rain were a one time thing and made the comment that the same loyal fans buying 1999 before PR were the ones buying ATWIAD, etc afterwards.

ATWIAD, Parade, and SOTT (which all featured a lot of Coleman/Melvoin family influence, even SOTT because a majority of tracks came from the Dream Factory sessions with W&L) all pretty much sold in the same ballpark figures once the glow of PR had faded and all had similar chart success in the US on the singles chart. They all sold more or equal to than any of his albums prior to PR so how could he be losing fans? ..and for all the talk of losing his funk/black roots, Parade charted better on the R&B chart than either ATWIAD or SOTT.

Prince, coincidentally, lost the largest group of fans when he released his first fresh new work without any Coleman/Melvoin family involvement - that work is LoveSexy. This album tanked on the charts, struggling even to reach 500k gold status. This was a huge drop from the previous 3 releases and was his worst chart showing since Controversy.