brothaluv said:

imho, Jesse's problem as a solo act was that, at least with his early work, it sounded like a buncha decent Prince B-sides by a guy who wore pink instead of purple.

Now if Jesse really worked his own thing from day one instead of sounding like less catchy version of Prince, maybe then P would've had more to worry about.

ya'll are tripping, JJ would still be selling shoes in Cooperstown if it weren't for Prince.

jesse had real talent as did all the people around Prince in the early days, but Prince was a genius. As far as the Time's breakup, I've heard that JJ and Morris both wanted to be the star. JJ played a guitar that comes a dime a dozen these days, Prince at least has a bit more distinctiveness and uses a very colorful range of scales and chords. Jesse is a color by number Hendrix impersonator.

and of course he copied Prince's 1999 sound along with everyone else long after Prince had moved on with sott etc..,Genius always takes precedence over all else and P was the genius.

Universaluv said:

Very well said and I agree withca. I was hella let down when I bought Jesse's first album. His solo's (the few that he had) were buried waaay too low in the mix. And the pink shit was waaay to close to P's purple. I thought he was going to have more of his own image, like Dez had. Jesse should have featured his strongest talent; his playing. Jesse's a guitarist, not really a performer. If he would have wrote stonger cuts that were in the funk/rock vein but with a pop flair to it, that featured him as a guitarist; ala Hendrix, then Jesse would have been straight. He can't fuck with P as a songwriter or as a performer. As I have posted before on this subject, me having played on a few cuts of Andre's and Morris's back in 95, they hipped me to ALL kinds of stuff regarding the mess between P and Jesse. It was serious tension between them two. As far as P being jealous of Jesse as a guitarist; nah. They had two entirely different styles although they both dug Hendrix and Hazel. P's issues were based in control and that fucked it up for not only Jesse but Dez, Andre, Terry and Jimmy, etc. In a vibe like that, if you're talented, which u have to be to play with P, YOU use the as a platform to do YOUR own thing. Not Prince's thing. U can't beat P at his thing, so develop your own. That's what hurt Jesse. In the 80's, he didn't have his own thing. P was all over the place musically. I know for a fact that P RESPECTED Jesse as a guitarist. Dug his style. Jesse is no joke on axe.

mozfonky said:

What scales and chords? I'm just curious (insert sarcasm). Are you a musician? Again, just curious. When it comes to topics like these, there's a distinct difference between actual musicians (who are more objective) and fams that will say anything to back up their assertions that P is number one in everything. BTW, if JJ is a "color by number Hendrix impersonator", what does that make Prince, especially Purple Rain era Prince?

Again, just curious...

JesseDezz said:

yes I am son, i'm getting my website up soon. Anyway, Prince uses a variety of scales and I wouldn't even know what most of them are, even though I'm a musician, I can hear that he does many different things with his guitar. Prince also has his own rhythm style which you could pick out of a variety if you know his style. I didn't have to be a musician, only a good lister to hear these things son.

mozfonky said:

Okay, dad

I guess what I was trying to say is Jesse had so much potential. But he never fully realized it. Women adored the guy and he could play. But like someone mentioned earlier, he tried to out-Prince Mr. Nelson. Can't be done. No one can beat you being yourself! Jesse couldn't sing worth a damn either. Ocasionally, I hear my friends criticize Prince for taking Do ME Baby from Cymone. But vocally, Prince really made that song something special.

Prince is a genius. There might be individuals who can beat him at this or that. But when it comes to the big picture, he stands head and shoulders above them all. I'm sure there are people out there who can out play, sing and dance Prince. But they can't do all three at the same time and with Prince's level of proficiency. Prince is just that good. Kinda makes you wonder why he's been so insecure all these years?

brothaluv said:

That's exactly right. Each individual element of Prince's work can be surpassed by others. What makes Prince a genius is the level of integration of all of his abilities.

Jesse may or may not have been a better guitarist back in 1982. He sure as hell can't touch Prince now. But even then, Jesse always seemed like a pale imitation of the real thing. It hurt like hell to hear him sing. He was not a bad guy, but he just came across as being Marlon Jackson.

As for Prince...his gift is not only an unparalled musical sense, but also the drive, the ambition, the work ethic, and yes, the courage to expand his boundaries.

How many cats from 1978 are still around today, making new music? Some people would have still been playing in the sandbox that made them famous, but Prince continually pushes the envelope. He goes from For You to Prince to Dirty Mind, then goes from 1999 to Purple Rain to Around the World in A Day and it all sounds different! He doesn't play it safe. He looks for new musical worlds to conquer. He can do so many things so well that he is unique. Love him or hate him, he is an American original. A true student of the game that soon became its Master.

Prince worship? With all the negativity around here it would take a lot more than a few posts to even come close to balancing it out. Anyway, Jesse had the nerve to talk shit about Prince stealing from everyone and he didn't do anything but try to copy Prince. maybe he was delusional enough to believe that the time created the Minneapolis sound who knows. One thing I didn't like about Jesse though, he wore lipstick, that always fucked with me, he looked like a transexual prostitute with a guitar.

brothaluv said:

-----
Co-sign. I have been saying this for years. P has everything going at one time and you just don't see this everyday. Other artist maybe better singers, songwriters and dancers but they can't tie everything together like P.

BlaqueKnight said:

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You don't see all the Prince bashing on this board. The lastest song is doing well in Europe. I post the chart positions and people go off in a negative manner. You have a lot of haters on this board.

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Co-sign. I have been saying this for years. P has everything going at one time and you just don't see this everyday. Other artist maybe better singers, songwriters and dancers but they can't tie everything together like P.[/quote]

And his work ethic. His vision and his productivity.

We may like different releases more than others but even after each success he keeps working.

He didn't sit in a mansion and destroy himself with drugs or booze or uh glittery wacko distractions.

I think he respected Jesse's playing. He hired heavy hitters because he wanted all of his various bands and spinoffs to be good.
[Edited 1/21/06 14:43pm]

Blaqueknigh is envious og Prince beucase he is the only person in the world that thinks that he (blaque) is better at guitar than Prince. He must think this because he know how to play rising force and some stupid vinnie more arpeggios.

JesseDezz said:

Well, prince has at his disposal a wide range of musical knowledge and course he uses the blues scales at times. All the church modes (based on major):

1. Ionion (Same as the major scale)
2. Dorian
3. phyrgian
4. Lydian
5. Mixolydian
6. Aeolin (same as natural minor)
7. locrian

Pentatonic scales, Harmonic minor scales (not too often), Melodic minor scales,(and the modes based on them). Occasionaly he uses "Exotic" indian type scales. From what i remember (I'd have to listen to it again), but wasnt 7 based on some indian scale or was that a pentatonic sound???

Anyone here know?




JV'

jazzvirtuoso said:

Glad someone knows, I'm a basic rocker and I can use other scales but my knowledge of these things is at a rock level, meaning intentionally limited. Prince uses so many colorful chords and scales in his stuff. If ones ear is good enough, you can hear pure gospel in the opening chords of lets go crazy and many of his other hits where you wouldn't necessarily expect gospel to show. He's always been a church boy and it certainly gave a prettiness to his sound. As far as 7, it sounded like some type of middle eastern scale.

jazzvirtuoso said:

I was being sarcastic, jazzvirtuoso. As a musician myself, I'm more than a little familiar with music theory. Methinks there is just a bit too much analysis about what scale P may or may not have used. I like P and JJ both - they're two of the reasons I play guitar. Let's just enjoy 'em both.

Wait a minute - thebanishedone started this thread, didn't he? He does at least two of these "Is Prince better than/jealous" of guitar threads a week and I fall for 'em every time...

Prince mixed Jesse's incredible solo out of The Bird. His solo was replaced with a keyboard solo instead. This is something that always bothered Jesse and those who have heard the actual solo from the original concert know who great it was, and the only reason that Prince would have hidden it in the mix is that he didn't want Jesse to shine. Too bad, because I think it was moves like that that destroyed The Time back in the 80s.

If Prince had stepped back slightly and allowed the band to mature and took advantage of their talents, The Time would have been a very influencial band, rivaling bands like "Living Color" and "Red Hot Chili Peppers" for funk/rock fusion.

You're right. But remember, Prince never intended for the Time to be anything other than his opening act. He didn't even let the band have any serious input until the third album. Prior to that, he pretty much wrote everything. He was prepared to do the same with Corporate World -- the infamous unreleased Time album that was shelved in favor of the Pandemonium work.

brothaluv said:

Sadly, that is completely accurate. Prince had no idea what he had... until it was gone.

Yes, the Purple One ended up creating his on monster...FRANKENTIME if you will. I know, I know. Cheesy but true. I guess that's why everyone has such high hopes for this Tamar chick.

"Frankenstein" isn't too dramatic, Prince admitted he created a monster to a detroit disk jockey in the eithties. The Time was badass, they could outfunk anyone and they didn't have all the femininity that toned down some of Prince's funk.

mozfonky said:

True. Even though Prince authored it The Time's funk was Straight No Chaser.